Novel Coronavirus

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Inannawhimsey

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Woah. Leave for a short while and *looks outside* look at those pigs fly

This thread is for anything related to the Novel Coronavirus.
Let's talk and share.
Hello past Waterfall.

I found this story very sad but it does open the question of how many could be left unattended during an outbreak of any kind. Is it better to seek out support from family or stay isolated when a global emergency is declared. Who is responsible for the children, elderly, etc... if only the parents are affected? What do you think?

So much has happened, hey, like Zorba the Greek used to say Life the whole catastrophe :3


As mentioned in another thread, SciShow did a piece on the science (as far as we know at this point). I imagine they may update it or do followups as things develop, esp. if there are any major discoveries. Hank emphasizes the importance of the getting the genome out there so quickly. Makes learning how the thing ticks and figuring out vaccines and antivirals easier with that basic bit of information out there.

Hello past Mendalla. Do you still like it? Its amazing how quickly things have changed eh? Its like we are living through multiple singularities at once.
Fear is precisely what we need to avoid. If people are afraid of their Chinese neighbors, the social media spammers and trolls will play on that to promote that fear and escalate it. The fact is, there has never been much traffic between Canada and Wuhan. There are no direct flights (you have to connect in Beijing or Shanghai) and no real tourism in that area. And the city has now been shuttered long enough that anyone here who has been there recently will be close to the 14 day mark and likely has either had it or did not get it.

Also, the Chinese here have been very good about self-isolation. The couple in Toronto did it, the university student here did. So that further reduces the likelihood of someone meeting a carrier casually in a store.

So, I have no qualms about shopping in our Chinese stores.
I hope that peeps used this opportunity to rethink their worldview and lifestyle.

Pneumonia – 3 million+ deaths a year

Pneumonia is the end point for a lot of severe respiratory illnesses, and can be caused by viral, bacterial and even fungal infections. It is the leading cause of death among children under 5 around the world, and along with other lower respiratory infections, is the biggest killer among communicable diseases.
Hello again past Rita. Bless you for continuing to post. And try not to worry too much aboot people tossing aboot the Conspiracy Theory thang; reality and this virus is deeply weird.
At present fear concerns me more than the virus itself....

We have 12 cases in Australia, hospitalised and ALL STABLE. Of the four in Sydney two have recovered sufficiently to be returned home.
I heard a professor of infectious diseases speak on our national radio. (Her message differed markedly from the fear mongering, headline grabbing lazy reporting commercial media).
She said, things may change, but at present this appears to be not a highly life threatening virus. (only one death reported out of China.) She suspects that the high number of cases in China may have something to do with many affected people not being terribly ill - thus not ill enough to stay in bed. Those that die are those that would be most affected by any virus - the elderly, immune compromised, etc. When she was asked could this be like the Spanish flu that killed more people than WW1 she replied that many who died of the Spanish flu died from secondary bacterial infections - and there wasn't antibiotics available. A weakened immune system - battling the flu -led to the subsequent bacterial infections.

I'm very concerned with fear mongering. After our recent bushfires, a friend in England contacted me in a panic because her local newspaper reported than 10,000 homes could be lost in Sydney.

Panic when you need to panic. folks......
Hello past Pilgrims Progress. I hope this has given more people the opportunity to reasses what is important etc.


It's weird. The whole thing. The rapid spread in China, the rapid, perfectly planned and built hospitals, their experimental use of HIV and Ebola drugs...and the fact that it's not spreading as fast and furiously anywhere else.
Bless you past Kimmio.
Bless you for being concerned here.

It is possible to at the same time to take the virus seriously AND to be concerned aboot damaging human rights in trying to fight this
AND to be concerned aboot people using this chaos to their benefit.

I wonder if, in general, those living in China are less healthy overall and more susceptable to 'germs'.? The people from other places would tend to be those who can afford air travel and possibly more nutritious food.
Hello past KayTheCurler
Do you have an answer?

Banning him from flights with Westjet and Air Canada for 7 years would be a fine I would give him. Maybe he is smarter in a couple of years.
Hello past Mrs.Anteater
Do you still feel this way?

This is creepy. It was far too well planned ahead of time. I find it creepy, dystopian - and realistically the virus doesn't seem to be as big a deal as what they may have 'anticipated' ...yes, it feels orchestrated to me. I have no proof so currently that possibility is just in my imagination - I hope it's not reality - but when I read that half the facility's patient rooms are isolation rooms (when this doesn't appear much worse than the annual flu) it gave me a chill up my spine. As did the cruise ship quarantine. It seems like a way too organized effort and it's creepy that people not feeling sick can be commanded by marshall law to be held captives in rooms not much bigger than cells. They need testing equipment onboard...and to let the well people go.

Again, ty for being concerned. Now you see that authoritarianism isnt just a white supremacy or fascist thing bur can happen for ostensibly goos reasons (saving people from apocalypse)
There are nearly 1.5 billion people in China and 130 have died. The response is disproportionate, on purpose, I think. I've already come across this op-Ed:

The title is not showing but it's about battling corona virus being a "job for the military".
Yuppers. Look at California right now. Bizarre how the virus affects humanity globally heterogenously.

Seems like a no-win situation - so if governments do less & give people more liberty - that would be deemed irresponsible if the incubation period & mode of transmission are more clearly identified & people were wandering about when contagious. Restrict liberty and it becomes a conspiracy of authoritarian control. No win.
Hello past Carolla

Now I guess you are seeing life from a new perspectacle? The Conservative? Or Utilitarian? Interesting to see people change based on events. Completely ordinarily. And not I think consciously. I wonder if thos ever ends how the Lib to Conservative ratio will change?

G_d/reality gives us what we need not what we want

kimmio, my understanding of what you are writing is that you think there is some big conspiracy going on because China has built a hospital and people are being quarantined? And you, great medical mind that you are, feel it isn’t necessary? Or it is sinister?

honestly, get a grip

a brand new virus, that is a lot like a previous new virus, SARS, is spreading fast. People are dying and medical personnel are rapidly trying to handle it

because it is airborn, it spreads fast and easily. There is some suggeston from certain cases that even people with out symptoms can shed the virus and infect others

there is also suggeston that many people have a mild case and are unaware they are spreading the virus. but others who contact it could become much sicker

WHO is monitoring closely. The mass quarantine is unprecidented and could not have happened in a more open society for sure. Time will tell if it works

as to the hospital? Emergency hospitals are often built. Whenever a disaster such as earth quakes and such occur. Or in war zones. And China has the Ability to just do it without consultation the hospital is mostly a prefab structure. like building with LEGO. Astonishing and I am sure armies will take note for new ideas building field hospitals

the need to keep a new virus for spreading is important. Ships are quarrantined to try to control the spread. sure you could ask people to quarantine themselves at home voluntarily but we know that wouldn’t work. Imagine you return from vacation, no more vacation days, no sick pay. Sure just take three more weeks off work and handle it. No problem with no pay cheque

just don’t go grocery shopping. Just don’t go for a walk with your dog. School? No. Big deal. Catch up later. You know that would not fly.

will this be a deadly virus that kills thousands ? Hopefully not. so far it has killed more than SARS and it is wrecking havoc on the economic situation
Hello past Lastpointe
I hope you have come to grok how one can both take the virus serioisly AND b afraid of the human rights that have been damaged because of it?

With increasing tempo the media have been stirring up fear. That fear being a key factor in the practice of control.
Hello past GeoFee

I really dont like how certain media have been having a field day with this. They are there only to make money ans to survive. NYT has lost even more subscribers.
I am glad there are alternatives who have audiences much laeger than any MSM.

We are being forced yo change. Matetialism is dying, it being a method of Colonialism and Oppression. I do not know what the new world will look like.

But I am seeiny everywhere bits of the new world. It wont b one world bit more polytheistic and decentralized.
I agree that people should not panic.
You should consider how well equipped you are in the event the world goes into panic. Can you sit back and avoid the panic, or would you have to run into the fray?

I have doubled stock on standard stuff. TP, cat food and litter. Rice and beans make a complete protein.

Always be prepared. It’s still easy and cheap to load up on some calorie dense food. If nothing happens, you haven’t lost anything.
Hello past PG13
Hear hear!!
So anyway
Wow
Surviving the apocalypse
And living through insane change
And seeing which experts to trust and who not to. Seeing some of our experts whose job it is to protect us caught lying and then trying to cover it up.
Seeing the horrors. people wanting authoritatian and more.

Feelinh bad for the people dyingdue to the virus. Bad for those who got sick or suicided or lost their job due to reactions to the virus.

Feeling good that US congress for first time in ny life actually comoletely agree on something and enact temp UBI.

Feeling good too see various health peeps break the law to be able to fix their equipment to save lives.

Still being confused at this bizarre virus.

Being happy to see the various ways peeps have been reacting. Home movies projected on apt. Church services in cars. Physical distancing at Hyde Park crowds.

Not happy with current global insanity. Not happy with police locked up in precinct and then set on fire. Not happy with police globally attacking innocent demonstraters. I think something deep within humanity has been released. Cue Forbidden Planet lol

Not happy that a kind og Jacobian and Maoist revolution seems to be happening.

Happy to see more people trying out Agorism. Fascinated to see how people can change from Liberal and Progressive to Conservative Or Utilitarian.

Hope yall r thriving in your own way

Happy to be with Nutmeg right now

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystematicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
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Yes, I've had my ups and downs, beliefs and disbeliefs with this covid thing. My concern now is that we weaken it (by distancing and masks) and stop it (by vaccine/ cure/ safe, expedient and effective treatment). How things unfolded in NY, as I was listening to people living in the thick of it, changed my mind.

I am also a huge hypocrite to one of my past "selves" because I bought myself a cute mask today. Mask wearing is going to be part of life for awhile so I might as well make it a fashionable accessory.
 
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Carolla

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I've been sewing a few more masks recently too, as they are now seeming to become a fact of public life for the foreseeable future. Lots of great fabrics!
 

ChemGal

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I will be considering takeout options a bit differently. Lots of sketchy sources but I did a bit of reading about the local outbreaks. People not taking this seriously are a big factor and all 4 are connected - and not just once. None of them are close to me but I can imagine some connections so I might take that extra step. Not that take out appears risky but if I can lower it even more just by picking certain places over others that seems reasonable to me.
 

Inannawhimsey

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Yes, I've had my ups and downs, beliefs and disbeliefs with this covid thing. My concern now is that we weaken it (by distancing and masks) and stop it (by vaccine/ cure/ safe, expedient and effective treatment). How things unfolded in NY, as I was listening to people living in the thick of it, changed my mind.

I am also a huge hypocrite to one of my past "selves" because I bought myself a cute mask today. Mask wearing is going to be part of life for awhile so I might as well make it a fashionable accessory.
One can take the coronavirus seriously
AND be concerned aboot the economy AND be wary of Authoritarianism and human rights violations?

There is no one way that results in 0 deaths or suffering or violence or whatnot.

The lockdown resulted in peeps losing their jobs. Some peeps became homeless. Some suicided. Mental health deteoriated. With lockdown easing, humanityz pent up pain is unleashed.

The global economy is affected. Unemployment at high levels. People not having jobs to come back to. Death. Starvation.

And the rise of Authorianism. Freedom of speech and assembly and etc affected. Some people asking for more. Some countries fining people. Jailing them (which is very dangerous; inside people tend 2 get sick more).

So I am in the middle of those 3 different circles.

Any of those 3 that we choose results in pain and suffering.

Don't forget that. Dont stop being concerned aboot all 3.

Thatz all I am meaning.

No one I dont think wants people to die or suffer. What can one go to bed with knowing? What suffering can one stand?

Mutual Aid is important.

Oh and I am totally enjoying the masks. There r many different ones there. I am garneting a collection.

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 

Inannawhimsey

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I will be considering takeout options a bit differently. Lots of sketchy sources but I did a bit of reading about the local outbreaks. People not taking this seriously are a big factor and all 4 are connected - and not just once. None of them are close to me but I can imagine some connections so I might take that extra step. Not that take out appears risky but if I can lower it even more just by picking certain places over others that seems reasonable to me.
How r u doing with the masks?
And have you heard some r using face shields?
Good news: some indications that the virus might be burning out. But since this virus is so bizarre and things can change so quickly I'll keep that in the maybe file.

Isnt it funny to see how many virologists there are online now lol?

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
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One can take the coronavirus seriously
AND be concerned aboot the economy AND be wary of Authoritarianism and human rights violations?

There is no one way that results in 0 deaths or suffering or violence or whatnot.

The lockdown resulted in peeps losing their jobs. Some peeps became homeless. Some suicided. Mental health deteoriated. With lockdown easing, humanityz pent up pain is unleashed.

The global economy is affected. Unemployment at high levels. People not having jobs to come back to. Death. Starvation.

And the rise of Authorianism. Freedom of speech and assembly and etc affected. Some people asking for more. Some countries fining people. Jailing them (which is very dangerous; inside people tend 2 get sick more).

So I am in the middle of those 3 different circles.

Any of those 3 that we choose results in pain and suffering.

Don't forget that. Dont stop being concerned aboot all 3.

Thatz all I am meaning.

No one I dont think wants people to die or suffer. What can one go to bed with knowing? What suffering can one stand?

Mutual Aid is important.

Oh and I am totally enjoying the masks. There r many different ones there. I am garneting a collection.

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
I agree. It didn't take me that long to change my mind that covid itself was a concern. I was concerned and still am that people are not paying attention to regional numbers, and there may be some who are scared into limiting their own freedoms because of it, or get too obsessed about it, when it's not a huge worry where they are. I can see that's happening. Gage the risk by regional cdc numbers; adapt behaviour accordingly. Conversely, if the risk is high - like in places like NYC where hospitals were overflowing with sick and dying people - then stay the F away from others, wear a mask, and protect yourself and others.

What I think bothers me is how easily people will give over so many of their human rights to faceless nameless authority, or people they never heard of before covid, without blinking. I've never seen anything like it. Also how quickly the high risk demographic jumped into action so they wouldn't get sick - a bit of a chip on my shoulder I guess that so many others of marginalized demographics have been dying and suffering for so long, but as soon as "they" feel threatened, man do they move fast to change policy. I don't want them to die. I just hope they can realize that things like BLM are just as, if not more important - seeing as poorer demographics are being hit the hardest by the virus, and by life. Not everybody can self isolate. Not everybody can take leave from work. Not everybody has a babysitter for their kids out of school, while they do shift work for low wages to begin with so that the chattering classes can get take out, and pick the slow times to social distance at the grocery store (and I will include myself in that critique because I have depended on low wage workers while getting through this, too). Some people have to be around hundreds of other people 8 hrs a day, so those others can be safe and feel secure. Some people have roommates or housemates whose behaviours and activities it is not their right to monitor - maybe they have to work. Maybe they are not in a high risk group and don't care that the people they live with are not. Can't force them to care, either.

But, maybe it's a good thing to being able to point out that it is possible to change things fast if the will is there - that the way the world has been operating can be changed quickly. And that money is kind of illusory. Poof - it's there to give out when people with power think it's in their interest, and - poof - not there to give out if they have other priorities. Also, the capitalist free market based economy we are used to is corrupt. Maybe we can make some other type of economy that is better than any others that have been tried. Maybe now's the right time for some new intelligent and compassionate people to do that.
 

ChemGal

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How r u doing with the masks?
And have you heard some r using face shields?
Good news: some indications that the virus might be burning out. But since this virus is so bizarre and things can change so quickly I'll keep that in the maybe file.

Isnt it funny to see how many virologists there are online now lol?

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
So far, no major issues with wearing a mask myself. A bit of a flareup behind an ear, but I do have some with the head elastics too.
I have concerns over policies though, I shall see what happens.
I've seen one person wearing a face shield so far.

Hopefully things will get better and we don't see too much worsening first. Yes, there are lots of internet educated virologists :cautious:
 
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I also still think that once this settles down - if the numbers show that most people get mild illness that doesn't require hospitalization or asymptomatic illness - and a small percentage get serious illness that can be effectively treated - especially once there is a vaccine - it's just another viral illness among many. The big deal is people dying or getting really sick, and filling up hospitals. If that is not happening there is no need for self imposed authoritarian measures indefinately - and we ought to be careful not to fall into thinking there is.
 
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Mrs.Anteater

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One good news- my son’s employer, a VW dealership, had laid off all but a few employees ( he got to stay). They have been returning to regular staffing now. The car wash guy found a better paying job during that time and isn’t coming back. So- there is also a chance in that. I had to think of the argument for basic income. It is a chance to improve. ( it is also a chance to regress).
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Lastpointe

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It sounds dumb. However people have done that with other diseases

i knew lots of parents who deliberately allowed kids to play with kids who had chicken pox. On the theory you might as well get it now. Of course not knowing that It can result in encephalitis

have heard the same with other “childhood” diseases. So this isn’t much different. And if the theory of herd immunity is correct then we need the herd to either get a vaccine or get the disease
 

KayTheCurler

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In the UK many girls were exposed to rubella at specially arranged parties. Being infected during pregnancy could cause severe problems for the baby so it was considered wise to get the infection over while still a child.
 

Waterfall

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It sounds dumb. However people have done that with other diseases

i knew lots of parents who deliberately allowed kids to play with kids who had chicken pox. On the theory you might as well get it now. Of course not knowing that It can result in encephalitis

have heard the same with other “childhood” diseases. So this isn’t much different. And if the theory of herd immunity is correct then we need the herd to either get a vaccine or get the disease
The theory of herd immunity with this virus appears to be wrong. Recent studies show immunity only lasts for a few months.
 

Waterfall

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It sounds dumb. However people have done that with other diseases

i knew lots of parents who deliberately allowed kids to play with kids who had chicken pox. On the theory you might as well get it now. Of course not knowing that It can result in encephalitis

have heard the same with other “childhood” diseases. So this isn’t much different. And if the theory of herd immunity is correct then we need the herd to either get a vaccine or get the disease
There is also an adverse reaction for some children from having had some vaccines.....to be fair.
 

ChemGal

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I understood the chickenpox parties when there was no vaccine and it was common. People tend to have less severe outcomes at particular ages and chances were they would get it at some point. Avoiding being sick with it at all is better which vaccines offer to many.
 

KayTheCurler

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CBC was reporting that Australia is having Covid problems. High rises locked down with no one allowed in or out. Tough times in Melbourne. Thinking of Pilgrim!!
 

ChemGal

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CBC was reporting that Australia is having Covid problems. High rises locked down with no one allowed in or out. Tough times in Melbourne. Thinking of Pilgrim!!
I don't know the full situation there, but unless things are pretty extreme I don't agree with lockdowns.
 
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