Novel Coronavirus

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PilgrimsProgress

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It is interesting, as you noted in another post that countries do tend to have higher cases of COVID coming from within large buildings holding larger groups of people
One of our health officials likened tall, heavily populated buildings to "vertical cruise ships"......

In Sydney we are very mindful of cruise ships as our early outbreak of the virus occurred due to the mishandling of the "Ruby Princess".

I do have a lot of sympathy to those in the lockdown buildings. Social housing is provided for the most needed citizens with limited resources. Many are recent immigrants who have an understandable fear of both the military and police. That, coupled with the language difficulty, is very frightening for them. The officials are doing what they can with rent relief, income payments and providing food and medication.
Unfortunately it is a pragmatic decision that has to be made - for the "common good". If this fails, more lockdowns, involving more citizens will have to be undertaken.
 

ChemGal

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One of our health officials likened tall, heavily populated buildings to "vertical cruise ships"......

In Sydney we are very mindful of cruise ships as our early outbreak of the virus occurred due to the mishandling of the "Ruby Princess".

I do have a lot of sympathy to those in the lockdown buildings. Social housing is provided for the most needed citizens with limited resources. Many are recent immigrants who have an understandable fear of both the military and police. That, coupled with the language difficulty, is very frightening for them. The officials are doing what they can with rent relief, income payments and providing food and medication.
Unfortunately it is a pragmatic decision that has to be made - for the "common good". If this fails, more lockdowns, involving more citizens will have to be undertaken.
If the tall buildings are a campus of sorts, I can understand that. Cruise ships though, the room is just where one sleeps, not cooks, works from home, etc. most of the actual 'living' is done in groups on the ship.
So with a tall building or a campus type of situation, I can see shutting down common areas. When I lived in an apartment there was a pool, gym and party rooms. Rules about elevator/hallway/stairway use make sense to be added in. Lockdowns I don't really see as a helpful solution unless they are for a short time frame during an outbreak for the building. What about laundry & garbage? People taking out a large amount of garbage into a dumpster is probably going to reduce risk than having a bunch of people using a garbage chute, especially if you have one person making multiple trips and passing multiple different people.
 

PilgrimsProgress

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Don't know if this will work -but here's the Victorian Premier discussing this matter.....
<iframe src="Facebook" width="476" height="476" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>
 

ChemGal

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I give up, Chemgal - you've worn me out.......
Sorry, it's not my intention.
I do think I'm fairly on the protective side of this. I just don't think lockdowns beyond the isolation/quarantine periods are something that is needed other than in fair extreme situations.
Most of the public health officials do seem to agree with that standpoint too - they are bringing up the risks that lockdowns bring. They are encouraging most people to get outside.
 

BetteTheRed

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Chemgal, I think the issue is common ventilation systems. Doesn't matter how individual your apartments are if you're circulating common air throughout the building.

You'll notice that the real hotspots in Canada right now are Toronto, Montreal, Windsor, probably three of our "densest cities" (although Windsor's problem is equally likely to be its neighbours).
 

ChemGal

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Chemgal, I think the issue is common ventilation systems. Doesn't matter how individual your apartments are if you're circulating common air throughout the building.

You'll notice that the real hotspots in Canada right now are Toronto, Montreal, Windsor, probably three of our "densest cities" (although Windsor's problem is equally likely to be its neighbours).
Has than shown to be a mode of transmission if not in the same room? I know they are testing Verve in Calgary to see if it could be something like that or plumbing, but the assumption so far has just been common touch points unless something else comes up.
If ventilation is an issue then I would think locking people down there is even more of a problem - they need to move people to a less risky living situation, especially if high risk. It's unlikely everyone is going to get sick at once (or even outbreaks at all of the towers at the same time) so if there are outbreaks lockdown could last months.
 

Northwind

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Don't know if this has made it on this sight ----But this shows just how crazy this world is becoming ------HOW Irresponsible can we humans get -----how crazy can we act -----this is just Nuts

It is selfish and irresponsible. I get it on one level, people used to expose their children to chicken pox in order to build immunity. That was less risky though and more was known about chicken pox. This virus is highlighting some very selfish behaviours.
 

BetteTheRed

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But the original "chicken pox" parties were not necessarily irresponsible. If there's no vaccine against it, the thought was, let's get it over with and not get it later, when effects of the disease were likely to be greater. I remember the difference between my small children having chicken pox, versus a boyfriend of mine, some years earlier, who got it in his late 20s and was very ill.
 

ChemGal

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But the original "chicken pox" parties were not necessarily irresponsible. If there's no vaccine against it, the thought was, let's get it over with and not get it later, when effects of the disease were likely to be greater. I remember the difference between my small children having chicken pox, versus a boyfriend of mine, some years earlier, who got it in his late 20s and was very ill.
Or before one child is born the year the older one starts school and is likely to be exposed. Newborns don't have the best immune systems.
 

BetteTheRed

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Agreed, but my Nick had it about his first birthday. It was an ugly sight (a dab of calamine on every damn spot and there were hundreds), but he wasn't all that perturbed and not really very sick.

I wonder about the incidence of shingles between those who had it and those who were immunized? Anyone know? I've had shingles once and it is very painful.
 

Northwind

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I wonder about the incidence of shingles between those who had it and those who were immunized? Anyone know? I've had shingles once and it is very painful.
That's an interesting question. I think it happens in people who have had chicken pox, not the vaccine. I could be wrong of course.
 

ChemGal

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That's an interesting question. I think it happens in people who have had chicken pox, not the vaccine. I could be wrong of course.
It's possible in both as it's a live vaccine.

We don't really have much data yet. Chickenpox vaccine covers some of the Millennials. For a while in Alberta at least, it was pay only and not well publicized as even being available.
 

KayTheCurler

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Or before one child is born the year the older one starts school and is likely to be exposed. Newborns don't have the best immune systems.
I had all the common childhood diseases by the time I was a year old. Sister started school, got 'something' gave it to brother, returned to school, brother gave it to me. Sister came home with a different 'something' and so on. I nearly died of measles. Never developed immunity to mumps and had it three times. Once as a baby, again as a child and tested to make sure it WAS mumps. Then I had a kid who brought it home from school and gave it to younger brother, the baby and me. Doctor was fascinated. The baby was too young for mumps and would have inherited protection from me. I suggested he check my glands!
 

Waterfall

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That's an interesting question. I think it happens in people who have had chicken pox, not the vaccine. I could be wrong of course.
If youvd had chicken pox you are at risk to get shingles if you are exposed to shingles and if you never had chicken pox you are at risk to get chicken pox if you are exposed to shingles.
 

ChemGal

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If youvd had chicken pox you are at risk to get shingles if you are exposed to shingles and if you never had chicken pox you are at risk to get chicken pox if you are exposed to shingles.
People who had the vaccine are in the 'had chickenpox' group even without being sick. The comparative risk of shingles between having been sick vs. vaccine isn't known for certain as far as I know.
 

Waterfall

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People who had the vaccine are in the 'had chickenpox' group even without being sick. The comparative risk of shingles between having been sick vs. vaccine isn't known for certain as far as I know.
Yeah i didnt include vaccines. Vaccines for chicken pox are said to be 90% effective but it is not known how long the protection lasts....some as long as 20 years and for some it can be alot shorter. Having had a vaccine still makes it possible you can get shingles.
 

ChemGal

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I feel like that's more of the same from what we've been hearing for months. With so many who have been sick I do feel like we should have a better idea than what we do. It's hard to state when someone contracted something and how for certain, but bits & pieces of information do add up.
In the Verve condo - those who are sick, how careful were they being about hand hygiene? Were they often in elevators with people living in other units?
Are their people who seem to have gotten sick from just sitting near others in situations where they were very careful about hand hygiene? Someone in a emergency room possibly with a broken bone who later ended up sick. Maybe in general too emergency rooms could number the waiting room seats and note that - I could see that as a good practice in general, as I know there have been times when my vitals should have been checked and weren't - it could be a way to help track that.
 
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