Strip Clubs

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

When CH started the thread she said it was going to be the first strip club in SK (which kind of surprised me but I took it at face value). And she said she disagrees with strip clubs.

If men drink at strip clubs there is more likelihood they will get rowdy and it'll be more rife for harassment and abuse of women to take place, IMO, because self control is known to be lowered with alcohol use.

At a club my friend worked at - men bought lap dances by buying (very overpriced) drinks for the strippers (I think it was a situation of requiring two drinks - one for the dancer and one for the customer) and then they'd get a cut of the money (but they had to pay a deposit each night they worked). As a consequence the dancers got loaded - they shouldered the consequence of addiction and substance abuse. And there were some instances that i would consider unjust manipulation of the women who'd been drinking.

 

[Pinga]

Maybe she was duped into getting onto the cutting edge of the third wave trend that screwed up the direction that feminism went in which later forced women into bad choices under the guise of feminism, instead of better opportunities for all women.

Haha, sure. She doesn't agree with you so she is a fool

 

[ChemGal]

When CH started the thread she said it was going to be the first strip club in SK (which kind of surprised me but I took it at face value). And she said she disagrees with strip clubs.

If men drink at strip clubs there is more likelihood they will get rowdy and it'll be more rife for harassment and abuse of women to take place, IMO, because self control is known to be lowered with alcohol use.

At a club my friend worked at - men bought lap dances by buying (very overpriced) drinks for the strippers (I think it was a situation of requiring two drinks - one for the dancer and one for the customer) and then they'd get a cut of the money (but they had to pay a deposit each night they worked). As a consequence the dancers got loaded - they shouldered the consequence of addiction and substance abuse. And there were some instances that i would consider unjust manipulation of the women who'd been drinking.

She did say I was correct though, in that there are venues where you can watch people strip. You just can't drink while doing it, that's what will be new.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Haha, sure. She doesn't agree with you so she is a fool

Never said she's a fool. Smart people buy into socio-political theories that are cutting edge, that seem like a good idea at the time - all the time. Human history is full of instances of smart people who couldn't look into the future - and us saying "what were they thinking?" but when the negative consequences can be seen it dooesn't mean we should perpetuate or repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

She did say I was correct though, in that there are venues where you can watch people strip. You just can't drink while doing it, that's what will be new.

Yes, several comments down she did confirm that.

 

[Pinga]

Never said she's a fool. Smart people buy into socio-political theories that are cutting edge, that seem like a good idea at the time - all the time. Human history is full of instances of smart people who couldn't look into the future - and us saying "what were they thinking?" but when the negative consequences can be seen it dooesn't mean we should perpetuate or repeat the same mistakes.

Again, you are presuming that you are right and she is wrong. I get you don't like the idea of it, yet, I don't get why you think it is your right to say what she chooses is wrong.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

@Pinga Question, do you place personal choice to do almost anything one chooses, over and above the greater good of having an equitable and functioning society where we have to make compromises for one another? Because those tend to be competing or conflicting world views anyway.

 

[Pinga]

I will go down that avenue, after someone has advised me why stripping is wrong and should not be allowed.

We all are born with different abilities, some have great voices, some have great minds, some have great physical abilities. Some people have characteristics which allow them to take advantage of those abilities. Some people are in homes where those abilities are nurtured. Most of humans are average, some have lesser abilities in all areas.

There seems to be an idea proposed on this thread seem to think that only intellectual based abilities have merit. That one shouldn't be able to earn income from other gifts and talents which one has been born with, been nurtured and taken advantage of.

To me, that is intellectual snobbery, where only certain types of jobs have merit or are of value to society.

It is also a challenge when one presumes that you don't prostitute yourself, when you flatter a customer in retail to make a sale for commission, or that you don't feel slimy when you serve a beer to a guy who gropes you, or you don;t feel abused when you are dealing with an abusive manager in a factory. Abuse, poor working conditions can occur in any location, and people sell themselves every day of every week.

 

[Jaebius]

Strip clubs clearly discriminate on the basis of physical appearance - which seems to be the one prejudice still allowable in our society.

Now take me - I enjoy stripping - and - if I do say so myself - I'm rather quite good at it. I feel good in my own skin - I enjoy the movements of my own body - and I surely do have rhythm.

However - do you imagine I could find employment as a stripper? I feel that no - I couldn't - due to my genetics - and I feel that's unfair.

Equal rights for us uglies!

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I will go down that avenue, after someone has advised me why stripping is wrong and should not be allowed.

We all are born with different abilities, some have great voices, some have great minds, some have great physical abilities. Some people have characteristics which allow them to take advantage of those abilities. Some people are in homes where those abilities are nurtured. Most of humans are average, some have lesser abilities in all areas.

There seems to be an idea proposed on this thread seem to think that only intellectual based abilities have merit. That one shouldn't be able to earn income from other gifts and talents which one has been born with, been nurtured and taken advantage of.

To me, that is intellectual snobbery, where only certain types of jobs have merit or are of value to society.

It is also a challenge when one presumes that you don't prostitute yourself, when you flatter a customer in retail to make a sale for commission, or that you don't feel slimy when you serve a beer to a guy who gropes you, or you don;t feel abused when you are dealing with an abusive manager in a factory. Abuse, poor working conditions can occur in any location, and people sell themselves every day of every week.

Lesser abilities according to what standard and who sets it? Now place that question into the realm of strip clubs. Why do they (and the porn industry) get to dictate what is the standard of sexy that men grow up to expect? Look at body image "ideals" throughought history. Fake boobs and skinny wastes and thigh gaps where certainly not always ideal. Then again, men always set the standard. Why can't we? Rhetorically, my answer would be because he (usually he) who has the money has the power, and the influence to set the standard. And all strip clubs do is give some women a tiny slice of the pie to follow the standards of beauty and sex appeal, not to set them. And strip clubs often make their money and their power with dirty money - organized crime, drugs, etc. - but even if that were to change the standard would still be set arbitrarily. And it sells women short - women who do have self esteem and and ability (who says a person with a disability can't pole dance or striptease their own way and that nobody would find them sexy? If that's the case it is because of deep prejuces created by standards being set by someone somewhere). I think we need to get away from our pre-occupation with sexuality, especially male dictated standards of our own sexual self worth, and make sexuality a fair and healthy thing again in our society. As of now I think it looks more like a mass crack addiction.

 

[Jaebius]

Now place that question into the realm of strip clubs. Why do they (and the porn industry) get to dictate what is the standard of sexy that men grow up to expect?

They don't get to set the standard of what sexy is Cousin. They do get to try. Personally - my standard of sexy and beautiful is my wife.

 

[ChemGal]

Strip clubs clearly discriminate on the basis of physical appearance - which seems to be the one prejudice still allowable in our society.

There are many qualities we can be discriminating about, and not all are about prejudice.

 

[Delightful Life]

City council is voting on the first strip club in Sask. tonight.

It is MPO that we don't need it and it is demeaning to the women who strip ( although

it does mean a paycheck)).

What is your opinion.

By the way, it is suppose to pass at council.

wow, an alien culture...
so truly, up until now, no peeler bars, pole dancing for money, lap dancing places?

if so wow...*looks at an alien culture that also calls itself Canadian* :3

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

They don't get to set the standard of what sexy is Cousin. They do get to try. Personally - my standard of sexy and beautiful is my wife.

En masse I really do think they influence (as part of the business of sex) what society thinks is sexy. There will always be at least a few who see past that. But a few doesn't it make an equitable society.

 

[Jaebius]

En masse I really do think they influence (as part of the business of sex) what society thinks is sexy. There will always be at least a few who see past that. But a few doesn't it make an equitable society.

Have to agree with you there Cousin. Our society is fallen - it's been kidnapped by the powers and it is corrupt.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I will go down that avenue, after someone has advised me why stripping is wrong and should not be allowed.

We all are born with different abilities, some have great voices, some have great minds, some have great physical abilities. Some people have characteristics which allow them to take advantage of those abilities. Some people are in homes where those abilities are nurtured. Most of humans are average, some have lesser abilities in all areas.

There seems to be an idea proposed on this thread seem to think that only intellectual based abilities have merit. That one shouldn't be able to earn income from other gifts and talents which one has been born with, been nurtured and taken advantage of.

To me, that is intellectual snobbery, where only certain types of jobs have merit or are of value to society.

It is also a challenge when one presumes that you don't prostitute yourself, when you flatter a customer in retail to make a sale for commission, or that you don't feel slimy when you serve a beer to a guy who gropes you, or you don;t feel abused when you are dealing with an abusive manager in a factory. Abuse, poor working conditions can occur in any location, and people sell themselves every day of every week.

By the way I don't necessarily presume what you claim in your last paragraph at all. Now, what about working in a place where ogling and inappropriate sexual remarks that would not be tolerated (in theory shouldn't be) in any other workplace, are commonplace and even to be expected?

Where else would you work where it would be okay to shout "Take it off!" (or "omg, cover that up!" as the case may be)?

 

[Pinga]

You are stating about norms of behaviour.

Would you be ok with strip clubs if they did not include that behaviour?
We have rules around expectation of workplaces...having said that "i have been told to "f*** off", and I regularly swear in my workplace, though not at individuals. There are rules, then there are rules that are enforced.

So, is it stirpping that offends you (or others)? or is it the behaviour in a strip club.
If individuals just sat and admired or applauded an excellent strip, would that be acceptable?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

You are stating about norms of behaviour.

Would you be ok with strip clubs if they did not include that behaviour?
We have rules around expectation of workplaces...having said that "i have been told to "f*** off", and I regularly swear in my workplace, though not at individuals. There are rules, then there are rules that are enforced.

So, is it stirpping that offends you (or others)? or is it the behaviour in a strip club.
If individuals just sat and admired or applauded an excellent strip, would that be acceptable?

Maybe but that is not what happens nor what makes the money. Raunchy shows normally make the money. In order for that to happen, what men consider sexy dictated by the business of who decides would have to change over time so in order to be equitable, what is considered sexy falls within a normal and more realistic standard and it currently looks to me that they have no intention of doing so because it is not in their best interest. If anything, I think the third wave of feminism fell into the hands of those looking to make the most money off of women's sexuality by convincing women it was in their own best interest to be sexy to be powerful (and how does that differ so much from the old ideal of women needing to meet a certain ideal to be a good wife? It's the same thing - keep women striving to be impressive according to some arbitrary and often unrealistic standard) and then the ideals got more and more extreme (like boob jobs and thigh gaps and genital surgeries, etc.)

 

[Pinga]

So, you dont' have a problem with people stripping for money; however, you do have a problem with abusive behaviour or manipulative behaviour in the strip club workplace?

Is that correct?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

So, you dont' have a problem with people stripping for money; however, you do have a problem with abusive behaviour or manipulative behaviour in the strip club workplace?

Is that correct?

Before I answer affirmatively I have to ask why we really and truly need strip clubs and why you think they are the right thing for society?

I do think that nude modelling for an art class is okay - but it's different. They are learning to find and depict beauty in all shapes and sizes.