How was church today?

[revjohn]

I’m glad to hear your uncles were so supportive.

They have never failed to be. As long as I have known them they have been what I expected uncles would be.

It was something of a relief to hear them affirm that everything I have ever claimed about my relationship with my dad was not a figment of my imagination (not that I ever considered it was). Everyone present at the funeral had a different relationship with my father when they stayed specific to their own memories I had no problem with that. When they extrapolated it became somewhat jarring. "Dedicated family man" doesn't jive with dad walking out on you when you were 5 leaving your, your mother and sister to fend for yourselves.

Hearing that you wonder if anybody notices that you were the man's family and there was nothing dedicated in the relationship you had other than a commitment to not having a relationship.

I hope you get the long term job (if that’s where feel called to be when the time comes).

It is an interesting experience. I will come to know them deeper than I have any of my previous pastoral charges. Prior to any application to fill a declared vacancy can be made. It adds another wrinkle to the discernment process that is for sure.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I’m glad your uncles had taken notice, and understood you.

Will you come to know the congregation deeper because the community is smaller? In that case, maybe that’s a good thing for all if you stayed on. But, like you said, time will tell.

 

[revjohn]

I’m glad your uncles had taken notice, and understood you.

It was great to hear others essentially agree with me. It means that I have not been unreasonable with my dad over the years.

Will you come to know the congregation deeper because the community is smaller? In that case, maybe that’s a good thing for all if you stayed on. But, like you said, time will tell.

It isn't so much the size of the congregation so much as the interaction with the congregation. In a typical call, I would only get to meet the Search Committee, which may or may not be a good representation of the whole congregation, and that interaction would be limited to hours at best. I do other research but most of that is static. Annual Reports and other statistical information.

I get four months to minister to and with this congregation. It does give me a definite advantage over other possible applicants. I'm not sure how I feel about the unlevel playing field it creates.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

It was great to hear others essentially agree with me. It means that I have not been unreasonable with my dad over the years.



It isn't so much the size of the congregation so much as the interaction with the congregation. In a typical call, I would only get to meet the Search Committee, which may or may not be a good representation of the whole congregation, and that interaction would be limited to hours at best. I do other research but most of that is static. Annual Reports and other statistical information.

I get four months to minister to and with this congregation. It does give me a definite advantage over other possible applicants. I'm not sure how I feel about the unlevel playing field it creates.

I don’t know...you’re already there getting to know people. That doesn’t sound like an unlevel playing field as much as it sounds like a logical choice not to have the congregation go through yet another change if they are happy with you there.

 

[Carolla]

Hi John - loss of your dad surely does sound complex - and I appreciate too the great gift your uncles provided to you at such a time. These webs can be so very tangled - often moreso than others might imagine - at least speaking from my own experiences. I often said to my own kids, the best lesson we can take from this (fractured family relationship) is how not to treat others.

So are you doing 4 months supply at George St? Full time or is this added to your other charge in Brigus? (haha - just me being nosy!) Seems like lots going on.

Hoping Dorian did not inflict too much damage or adventure on your home or retreat in St. Anthony. We were in Nova Scotia - was an adventure for sure.

 

[Luce NDs]

Never deny the UN cle ... spirit above the dirt! Floaters?

 

[Luce NDs]

Church was yesterday in some memes already forgotten in the daze of the work leid out there beyond Sudarious activities ...

Ya Hoo Dahth UNque it ... gives dreams in spatial orders ...

 

[revjohn]

Hi John - loss of your dad surely does sound complex - and I appreciate too the great gift your uncles provided to you at such a time.

The only way it could have been better would have been that it was not facilitated by dad's death. I have no way of knowing if they expressed similar sentiment to him while he was alive. That is beside the point though, what I needed and would never ask for was freely given. And that grace is healing.

These webs can be so very tangled - often moreso than others might imagine - at least speaking from my own experiences. I often said to my own kids, the best lesson we can take from this (fractured family relationship) is how not to treat others.

Dad's greatest example was what not to do. While I expect that most of my screw-ups are uniquely my own I have so far managed to avoid the pitfalls which made life miserable for him and the rest of the family. Attending was a question. Ultimately I decided that my absence would not communicate anything to my dad. It would cause problems for the rest of the family. Out of respect for my sister, aunts, uncles, and cousins I decided to attend. Out of love and respect for my sister, I agreed to take the service. And because I love the church I approached the funeral as I would any worship service.

So are you doing 4 months supply at George St? Full time or is this added to your other charge in Brigus? (haha - just me being nosy!) Seems like lots going on.

Four months full-time with the agreement that the appointment would be renewable if the congregation was not in a position to call a new minister for January 1, 2020.

They have two weeks now to form a search committee have their vacancy placed on Church hub interview candidates and call a congregational meeting to present the name of the preferred candidate. No way they get any of that done. Heck, they need to give two weeks notice of the congregational meeting at minimum.

The only ways they can get away with not extending the appointment would be to decide they want somebody else appointed rather than me, call a minister not currently in a call or call a minister who is already on the countdown to an end in the pastoral relationship or, offer the call to me. It is only two weeks into the appointment so still a honeymoon phase.

Hoping Dorian did not inflict too much damage or adventure on your home or retreat in St. Anthony. We were in Nova Scotia - was an adventure for sure.

Dorian was pretty much a non-event here on the East Coast. Light rain stronger breeze. I have seen worse. High winds and rain in St. Anthony knot sure if it knocked our sign down or just lifted the nameplate off the chain links. It is currently inside the cottage because the neighbour didn't have a key to our shed.

 

[revjohn]

I don’t know...you’re already there getting to know people. That doesn’t sound like an unlevel playing field as much as it sounds like a logical choice not to have the congregation go through yet another change if they are happy with you there.

If they decide to declare themselves vacant and they ask for expressions of interest then the playing field is unlevel if I express and interest simply because there is a logic in not going through another change in the pastoral relationship.

Different jurisdictions in the church have forbidden clergy who serve on appointments from seeking a call in the same congregation when the congregation is finally declared vacant.

 

[Luce NDs]

Church law can be as complex as civil law ... and in confusion we are fooled by much of what we're told! Pay close attention to the stories ... there's something brief in the Cloes ...

 

[Seeler]

The church was a bit different this past Sunday. Both our regular ministers were away: one for medical reasons and the other taking the youth of the church {and any others that wish to join them) by canoe to an island in the middle of the river for worship. Needless to say I didn't join them – too old; too many physical problems.
The service was led by a recently retired minister who has become part of our congregation (his wife has been hired as our new music director). I know this minister from interchurch work. Although he is a bit to the right of centre in his theology, I like him. However I was a bit disturbed with his talk with the children. He started off with an interesting story of the invention of Ivory soap - apparently a batch was accidentally left mixing for too long, resulting in soap that was flowing over its container that, when dried and cut into blocks, was soft and light, and 'it floats'. He then compared the air that brought about this change to the Holy Spirit that can fill our hearts and change us if we invited it in. Then he spoke about the claim of being 99 and 44/100% pure, and the importance of purity and keeping oneself pure and perfect, reminding us that no one is perfect except God and we have to keep trying.
I don't have children or grandchildren in Sunday school, and my theology is quite different, but I wondered if I did have children or was talking to someone that was new in the church, how would I explain this to them.
The balance of the service went quite smoothly, but not challenging. Since he is such a likable person with a pleasant speaking voice, it was well received, and was a nice change (if only he had had someone else telling the children story).

 

[Carolla]

Church was pretty good on Sunday. It was a combined service (we usually have 2 at different times) followed by the 'welcome back chicken BBQ'. Combined musicians from the two services was interesting & the former choral director from my prior church has now taken up the baton with this choir & our prior organist/pianist also played - the anthem was great! I'm still struggling with the 'rock' music from the early service - the lyrics of many of the pieces they choose is really bothersome to me (and to others). Minister preached a sermon that was personal & resonated with me. There were about a hundred folks there for the BBQ lunch which was tasty - but in the basement hall due to inclement weather.

I was also scheduled to usher for the service. The expectation is, if one cannot do the scheduled date - you must find your own replacement & let the office know - which I reliably do. I had been on vacation but returned on Friday & planned to fulfill my commitment to usher. Apparently somebody else told the office staff I was still away, so they scrambled to find somebody else to usher. So ... on Sunday I arrived early to church fully expecting to usher - and found I was not doing so. Sigh.

 

[revjohn]

I don't have children or grandchildren in Sunday school, and my theology is quite different, but I wondered if I did have children or was talking to someone that was new in the church, how would I explain this to them.

How any of us explain it may not be anywhere near what he intended to mean.

Since I probably lean right of centre theologically let me reflect what the 99.44% pure claim means. It means you are impure. 100% is pure. 99.44% is impure. It falls short. True it may be better than others. Being purer than X does not mean you are as pure as Y.

As to the importance of purity. God is pure and all things other than God not so much. If my salvation requires my purity I'm lost. I may not be alone in my lostness, that simply means more sharing the misery not an escape from it.

Here is a curious thing about soap. We use it to clean ourselves. Does that mean the soap stays clean? Not at all. For soap to stay clean it needs to avoid being used. Which is where isolationist approaches to Christianity come from. The call from Jesus is to be in the world not of the world. It means we will get our hands dirty from time to time. So long as we don't forget to clean up once in a while we should be okay.

 

[Luce NDs]

Soap is self washing ... like saponification in some forests! Then sapience appears to be an ethereal experience in a populace turned out of the heavens into the mire earth ... ever heard of such dirt accumulating under the cosmos without chaos? Thus Eris evolved as a rising item ... dust bun ease ... as expanding entanglements simulating tumbleweed before the blown ... bubbles of imagination? Capt ions ... shocking Electra connected to protons! It could be pretensive given there was nothing to start with ...

Mortally pious excludes this school ... where everyone loses everything ... all awash even the sapient ...

 

[Northwind]

We went to church yesterday. It was a church we've planned to visit for some time. We finally got there. It was a friendly group. The greeters at the door pointed to where the service would be held, to the bathrooms and explained post service coffee time. That was a welcoming thing to do. Several people came up and introduced themselves. The music was good.

Lately my emotions have been closer to the surface. I found myself thinking of the larger church community as we sang from More Voices. I remembered singing the same songs/hymns with other groups. It felt nice. It felt like connection. When we ended with Draw the Circle Wide at the end though, I found myself in tears. So, I just listened and regrouped.

We'll probably return there again. It's a good spot for us I think.

 

[You just never know]

My church was a 104 km bike ride. The theology of constant motion and a sore knee. Will probably let the knee rest and go to a sit down in the pews church next Sunday. It's also supposed to snow on the weekend so not great biking weather.

 

[Mendalla]

Went to Metropolitan United today. Perhaps the first service I have been to in a long time that made me feel like I was back in St. James Rosemount in the eighties (and I'm not really sure that's a good thing, though it felt nice and familiar). Familiar hymn tunes, a responsive psalm (which I find a lot of United Church services don't have anymore), singing Holy Holy Holy and the Doxology. Terrific, dramatic preaching that touched on both Thanksgiving and the Bible text.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Today's service was a nice dynamic mix of Thanksgiving, two baptisms (Mom and infant, which was fun), a bit of a skit, and a sermon that attempted to make sense of a bible passage, one of whose crucial points was missed in the "paraphrased" reading I'd just read. I even thought about mentioning it before or after I read it, but decided it would be unwise to extemporize. As it turned out, it would have helped make more sense of the sermon, the idea that the one of 10 lepers who returned to thank Jesus was the Samaritan, the "foreigner"... And I'm not entirely sure what the skit was in aid of today, but okay...you can't hit all notes, lol.

 

[Mendalla]

As it turned out, it would have helped make more sense of the sermon, the idea that the one of 10 lepers who returned to thank Jesus was the Samaritan, the "foreigner".

Same thing was a key point in the sermon I heard. The minister did the gospel reading himself and actually highlighted the point by giving a quick explanation of the Samaritans and their relationship to the Jews as an introduction, then went into more detail in the sermon.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are Samis related to Samaritans? Could be a powerful Julian or Judean question ... as far as the Rome goes't!