Bible Study Thread: Luke

[BetteTheRed]

OK, unsafe, so you believe in demons, where I do not (no evidence; I understand you have personal anecdotal evidence, but that doesn't help me).

I understand that 2000 years ago, the concept of the electrical storm in the brain that is epilepsy was not understood.

The interesting question might be: does it matter whether Jesus healed a physical ailment or banished a 'demon'? Is either more 'impressive'? Real healing would impress me, but I have never seen any evidence to support it beyond random good luck.

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Luke 9: 46 - 56

The disciples argue who among them is the greatest. Jesus takes a little child to his side and replies, "Whoever welcomes this child in my name welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me, for the least among all of you is the greatest."

John tells Jesus that someone has been casting out demons in His name. The disciples had tried to stop this man because he does not follow with them. Jesus says, "Do not stop him, for whoever is not against you is for you."

On the way to Jerusalem, they enter a Samaritan village where Jesus is not received. James and John ask Jesus if they should command fire from heaven to consume the Samaritans. But Jesus rebukes them and they go on to another village.

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Luke 9: 46 - 56

Here we have a couple of paradoxical statements from Jesus. The least among His disciples is the greatest and whoever is not against them is for them.

Welcoming a child in His name welcomes Jesus. And welcoming Jesus welcomes the One who sent him.

Jesus seems to be quite the pacifist in this text, certainly more so than his disciples who desire fire from heaven to consume the Samaritans. Jesus seeks no conflict and simply moves on to the next village when he is not well-received. I am reminded of the earlier passage about shaking the dust off one's feet.

I am also reminded of the "inasmuch" sayings from Matthew's gospel.

What relevance does this reading have for us today? I am still pondering the question posed by Jesus, "Who do you say I am?" He is certainly an enigmatic teacher, among other things.

 

[unsafe]

unsafe says ----Sorry ---Just answering BetteTheRed here about healing


BetteTheRed -----your quote -----The interesting question might be: does it matter whether Jesus healed a physical ailment or banished a 'demon'? Is either more 'impressive'

unsafe says -----I believe it does matter greatly ------preforming an exorcism is much more difficult than healing a physical ailment -----it is much more impressive in my view ------Satan has full control not only of the person but can use the person in any way he wants to carry out his desires in this world -----Satan's desire is to kill ---steal and destroy humans

When Satan possesses a body he can roam physically on this earth ----

When Satan does not possess a body all he can do is put thoughts in the person's mind ------we then choose to act on the thought or not -----We have control of our thoughts not Satan -----

Physical aliments comes from Sin and the effects of sin on our emotions which affects our body and breaks down our immune system and bodies -----


BetteTheRed ------your quote ---- Real healing would impress me, but I have never seen any evidence to support it beyond random good luck.


unsafe says ----So your like doubting Thomas you need to see to believe and your not alone on this belief there are many ---many people who have to see to believe -----This is a perfect example of what Human faith is -----God kind of Faith believes without seeing ------God word says and we are to believe what it says -without evidence ----that is why this faith only comes from reading God's Word and being grounded and rooted in planting God's seed -----


Here is the Thing BetteTheRed ------Just because you have seen no evidence to prove to you that healing does take place does in no way make it not so ----and God BetteTheRed does not work on ----Luck---- Ever -------By you saying that---- I am not surprised as you and anyone who thinks the way you do are in what God calls ---Not Me ----the Natural Man/Woman state ----So you are believing the way you are suppose to in that state -------

Believe as you will -----

 

[paradox3]

Interesting that the disciples argued among themselves . . .

Nowadays we may not argue about who among us is the greatest but we seem to find plenty of other things to argue about. We all hope for discussion rather than argument here on WC2 but it can be a fine line sometimes . . .

I, too, think that the convulsions described in Luke's gospel must represent epilepsy. But I don't want to * ahem * argue with anyone about it.

It seems that the gospel writers all believed physical illness was caused by an unclean spirit or a demon. Some may still believe this today but I certainly don't.

 

[paradox3]

Today's text seems to give us a very inclusive Jesus (to use present day language). If we are not against him, we are for him. If we welcome a child in his name, we welcome him. If we welcome him, we welcome God.

I like this openness in Jesus and his willingness to move on if he is not offered hospitality.

Certainly other scriptures present a different view of Jesus. Who do we say He is? I keep coming back to this question in my musings.

 

[Waterfall]

"Who do you say I am?"

Whenever I hear this question I am reminded of Jesus praying in the garden of Gethsemene. All of his disciples fell asleep which meant that no human heard his prayers, yet we have it written in the New testament, everything that he prayed to God. No one was there to listen in order to pass on his words, his thoughts or his prayers.....yet someone wrote down what he said to God. Who?
Now of course some will say that it was the Holy Spirit guiding the hand of a scribe to write down what he prayed.....regardless that no one heard his prayer other than God.
For myself, I believe that we dont really know what he prayed....and so I tend to think we are capable of making Jesus into someone he was not and even possibly ignore who he may actually have been. We also have a magnificent story that we all love, of an adulterous woman who was to be stoned whom Jesus stepped in to save.....except this story was added to the Bible hundreds of years later and from another era. We have Mark telling us in the beginning of his gospel that Jesus is the son of God, implying he is God....except those words were also added many many years later.
There is no doubt in my mind he is worth following and there is no doubt in my mind he was annointed by God.
No one needs affirmations from others to know who they are....deep down we know, surely Jesus was acutely aware of who he was....
I tend to think Jesus was asking this question of his disciples (and us) to determine if they were following his word and the movement he was creating in the world or his image. Do we speak of love and glorify that or instead do we glorify Jesus as the messenger...a mere image?
I personally think if we have love in our hearts....we get Jesus. And if anyone is looking for evidence of God.....love is the evidence. Its real, it exists and cannot be denied. And I believe.

 

[Waterfall]

It seems that the gospel writers all believed physical illness was caused by an unclean spirit or a demon. Some may still believe this today but I certainly don't.

It took humans until the 18th century to attempt to help those with epilepsy instead of condemning it. Rather than accept the previous diagnosis of demons through "the church" we cast aside the orthodox and started to embrace the unorthodox.
Since that choice we've had significant advancement.
Galileo suffered through a church that chose condemnation also...and in our own lifetime the LGBT community.
We have to start to ask ourselves why we are continously accepting an "ancient wisdom" that condems instead of choosing the wisdom of acceptance that Jesus showed by stopping to help. This doesnt seem to be a story about the reality of demons but a story about stopping to help someone in need and accepting their humanity through it all.

 

[blackbelt1961]

The interesting question might be: does it matter whether Jesus healed a physical ailment or banished a 'demon'? Is either more 'impressive'? Real healing would impress me, but I have never seen any evidence to support it beyond random good luck.

It's important because it shows that Jesus has Authority not only over the natural realm for natural illnesses but also over the spiritual realm , unclean spirits know Jesuse ,who He is and his authority.

 

[unsafe]

Todays Scripture ----

Luke 9:46-56 (GW)
Greatness in the Kingdom
46 A discussion started among them about who would be the greatest. 47 Jesus knew what they were thinking. So he took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me. Whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. The one who is least among all of you is the one who is greatest.”

Using the Name of Jesus
49 John replied, “Master, we saw someone forcing demons out of a person by using the power and authority of your name. We tried to stop him because he was not one of us.”

50 Jesus said to him, “Don’t stop him! Whoever isn’t against you is for you.”

People from a Samaritan Village Reject Jesus
51 The time was coming closer for Jesus to be taken to heaven. So he was determined to go to Jerusalem. 52 He sent messengers ahead of him. They went into a Samaritan village to arrange a place for him to stay. 53 But the people didn’t welcome him, because he was on his way to Jerusalem. 54 James and John, his disciples, saw this. They asked, “Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to burn them up?”
55 But he turned and corrected them. 56 So they went to another village.


unsafe says ----in verse 46 we see the Disciples arguing about who would be the greatest in the Kingdom ----they were seeking Greatness in rank --dignity and status ------This is not what a Disciple of Christ should be worried about or discussing as it is self indulgence --Pride ----

It is like in todays world where we have the Olympics and other competitions where rank --dignity and status means everything in winning --and many will do what they have to including cheating --to be the highest ranked in dignity and status -----this type of behaviour is for the Worldly not Godly ----

In Verse 47 ---We see Jesus knows their thoughts and uses a Child to reign them in ----Children to Jesus are innocent and receive Him without Question ----they do not know what the sin nature is all about and stand as innocent in God's eyes ----they have no understanding of rank --dignity and status yet -----


Verse 48 ----some translations use welcome and some receive ----

Luke 9:48 (ASV)
48 and said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this little child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same is great.


unsafe Posting -----This is the Greek word used in this scripture just for Clarification ----

Strong's Concordance
dechomai: to receive
Usage: I take, receive, accept, welcome.

HELPS Word-studies
1209 déxomai – properly, to receive in a welcoming (receptive) way. 1209 (déxomai) is used of people welcoming God (His offers), like receiving and sharing in His salvation and thoughts

1209/dexomai means receive with "ready reception what is offered" i.e. "welcome with appropriate reception

The personal element is emphasized with 1209 (déxomai) which accounts for it always being in the Greek middle voice. This stresses the high level of self-involvement (interest) involved with the "welcoming-receiving." 1209 (déxomai) occurs 59 times in the NT.]


unsafe says ----So anyone who thinks that it is just an easy welcome is missing the true point of what Jesus was trying to get across to His Disciples ---He is talking True humbleness and laying self down ----relying on Him like the little children rely on their parent -----


In Verses 49 -50 --We See John coming to Jesus and complaining about people using His name to cast out Demons and saying that these people are not one of them -----and Jesus quickly squashes their puffed up selves ----by thinking they are the only ones who have the right to do this because they are with Jesus -----The Disciples are displaying their inner securities by putting down others who are trying to be on the same level as them ----


unsafe says ----Today this happens ----anyone who threatens our sense of superiority is considered an enemy and is attacked by using hurtful words to diminish their self worth -----



We see in Verses 51-56 -----Jesus is rejected in a Samaritan village ------and the Disciples get angry and wanted Jesus to send fire down on them ---- Fire had been used by God in the Old Testament a few time -----so the Disciples were wanting Jesus to do it ------

How many times has God sent fire from heaven? | GotQuestions.org

How many times has God sent fire from heaven? What is the meaning of God sending fire down from heaven?

www.gotquestions.org

Question: "How many times has God sent fire from heaven?"


Verse 55-56 says in the GW Version - But he turned and corrected them. 56 So they went to another village.


unsafe says -----the King James version says it best as it gives more info

.

 

[GordW]

ROFLMAO.

You can't be serious.

Welcome @Witch

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Luke 9: 57 - 62

As they continue on the road, someone offers to follow. Jesus replies that the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

To another, Jesus says, "Follow me." This man answers that he first must go and bury his father. Jesus states, "Let the dead bury the dead."

A third man says he will follow but first he must say farewell to those at home. Jesus remarks, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Luke 9: 57 - 62

Wow! Following Jesus is a tough call according to today's text. No where to lay our heads while we are on the road. No looking back to say goodbye to our old lives.

Go and proclaim the kingdom of God, Jesus says.

 

[Seeler]

In Verses 49 -50 --We See John coming to Jesus and complaining about people using His name to cast out Demons and saying that these people are not one of them -----and Jesus quickly squashes their puffed up selves ----by thinking they are the only ones who have the right to do this because they are with Jesus -----The Disciples are displaying their inner securities by putting down others who are trying to be on the same level as them ----


unsafe says ----Today this happens ----anyone who threatens our sense of superiority is considered an enemy and is attacked by using hurtful words to diminish their self worth -----
[/QUOTE

Is there a bit of irony here?

 

[unsafe]

Sorry --just responding to Seelers comment using my quote ---

Seeler ---your quote ------Is there a bit of irony here?

unsafe says -----the irony works both ways there Seeler -----there are many so Call Christians who mock and put down true Christ-ians for their beliefs ----just with your comment here --your filling that bill ------that is the irony of it -----

Jesus is a perfect example of this ----- so Call Christians who mock and put down true Christ-ians for their beliefs -

Now back to Luke and todays scripture ------

 

[unsafe]

Luke 9:57-62 (GW)
What It Takes to Be a Disciple
57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to Jesus, “I’ll follow you wherever you go.”

58 Jesus told him, “Foxes have holes, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to sleep.”

59 He told another man, “Follow me!”

But the man said, “Sir, first let me go to bury my father.”

60 But Jesus told him, “Let the dead bury their own dead. You must go everywhere and tell about God’s kingdom.”

61 Another said, “I’ll follow you, sir, but first let me tell my family goodbye.”

62 Jesus said to him, “Whoever starts to plow and looks back is not fit for God’s kingdom.”


unsafe says ----True Discipleship is not easy and anyone who become a True Disciple of Jesus Christ has to be prepared to be mocked ----called names ----shunned ---be spit on ----have hands put up in their face ----pushed away ---etc etc --all in the name of their beliefs ----

unsafe says --We see in this verse Jesus saying ----58 Jesus told him, “Foxes have holes, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to sleep.”


unsafe says ----in yesterdays scripture we see this ------People from a Samaritan Village Reject Jesus ----so Jesus has to go on to another place -----now ---in todays scripture ---we see the man who asks to follow Jesus and Jesus says this to him ----

58 Jesus told him, “Foxes have holes, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to sleep.”


unsafe says ----This scripture has been misused and abused by many who use this scripture to say that Jesus was poor and that Christians should be poor as well ------as he had no where to lay his head -------it is the Love of Money and the pursuit of things that God has a problem with ---not money or things itself that is used for God's use not our use -----

Then we see the man says ------ But the man said, “Sir, first let me go to bury my father.”

So the man really is saying after I look after other things I will follow you ------So Following Jesus was secondary to this man not First ------We are to Love God and rely on God first ----then our neighbour -----


Jesus says ----Let the dead bury the dead ------

so your either with Jesus or your not ------there is no inbetween ------

unsafe says ---the rest of these verses explain themselves ------

60 But Jesus told him, “Let the dead bury their own dead. You must go everywhere and tell about God’s kingdom.”

61 Another said, “I’ll follow you, sir, but first let me tell my family goodbye.”

62 Jesus said to him, “Whoever starts to plow and looks back is not fit for God’s kingdom.”



First things first

 

[Mendalla]

Reflection: Luke 9: 57 - 62

Wow! Following Jesus is a tough call according to today's text. No where to lay our heads while we are on the road. No looking back to say goodbye to our old lives.

Go and proclaim the kingdom of God, Jesus says.

The idea that to achieve "Enlightenment" (for lack of a better word), you have to turn your back on your old self is common in these sorts of movements, e.g. Eastern "gurus" and modern religious cults. One could also look at it as an ultimate manifestation of the whole "born again" concept, that to be "born again", you must die to your old life. Which is, really, part of the whole Resurrection myth.

 

[paradox3]

The idea that to achieve "Enlightenment" (for lack of a better word), you have to turn your back on your old self is common in these sorts of movements, e.g. Eastern "gurus" and modern religious cults. One could also look at it as an ultimate manifestation of the whole "born again" concept, that to be "born again", you must die to your old life. Which is, really, part of the whole Resurrection myth.

Maybe we have Jesus the Jewish mystic speaking in this text . . .

 

[Mendalla]

Maybe we have Jesus the Jewish mystic speaking in this text . . .

That would be my thinking. It's the sort of thing that inspired the nonsense theory about him travelling to India and studying under gurus there. While I think it's bunk and completely without evidence or other basis, it does highlight that he had that mystical edge to his ministry. However, there are ample Western antecedents for that so we don't have to resort to "he went to India".

 

[unsafe]

Mandalla ----your quote ----- One could also look at it as an ultimate manifestation of the whole "born again" concept, that to be "born again", you must die to your old life. Which is, really, part of the whole Resurrection myth.

unsafe says -----Are you really sure it is a Myth ????--- The Real Truth will be revealed to us all when we leave this Physical Realm ----until then no one is sure if --- to be "born again", you must die to your old life. Which is, really, part of the whole Resurrection is a myth or truth -----

But here is the thing ---if it is a Myth then the Born Again people have lost nothing by doing and believing what the Bible says about being Born Again and the Resurrection of Christ ------

If it is not a Myth and it is the Truth ----then the people who have said and believe it is a Myth will have lost their eternal life forever -----so who really is the looser here ----believers or unbelievers ------


And Mendalla -----You can Believe whatever you like--- But ----You and other Unbelievers Just Don't Know For Sure That It Is A Myth ------and that is the real Truth ---


To Believe or Not To Believe ----That is the Question ?????