Bible Study Thread: Luke

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Reflection: Luke 9: 21 - 27

Before today's text, Jesus has just asked the disciples who the crowds are saying He is. Who do the disciples say He is? The Messiah of God, Peter responded.

Is Jesus providing them with further information now? The gospel writer gives us a Jesus who is well-aware of what the future holds. Jesus does not identify himself as savior or redeemer, yet He predicts his death and resurrection.

A prediction of resurrection would not have necessarily been shocking or extraordinary in biblical times. Jesus has already been raising people from the dead and the crowds have wondered if ancient prophets have been resurrected in Him.

Jesus is also presented as apocalyptic prophet and He speaks of end times. They could arrive soon . . . even in the lifetime of those present.

What are we to make of Jesus saying his followers need to deny themselves and take up the cross daily? Those who want to save their life will lose it and those who lose their life for His sake will save it. Quite a paradox Jesus gives us here! Could he be saying that those who focus on faith as a means of salvation are missing the mark?

Is Jesus suggesting that self-sacrifice is necessary in order to follow Him? In losing something of our previous lives we will save ourselves?

These are a puzzling few verses.
 
Interesting note, the study Bible I use mentions that the last verse is partially fulfilled by those (Peter, John and James) who witnessed the Transfiguration, which is related in the next passage.

I sense that to seek to gain one's life is to seek to GET-- What will make ME comfortable and secure? What will make MY life more fulfilling/ fun/ comfy/ etc? While to lose ones life is to seek to GIVE- What and I contribute to the well-being of the people and world around me? How can I make a positive difference in the lives of others? That may be a bit simplistic, but it's a way of understanding the difference.
 
Reflection: Luke 9: 21 - 27

Before today's text, Jesus has just asked the disciples who the crowds are saying He is. Who do the disciples say He is? The Messiah of God, Peter responded.

Is Jesus providing them with further information now? The gospel writer gives us a Jesus who is well-aware of what the future holds. Jesus does not identify himself as savior or redeemer, yet He predicts his death and resurrection.

A prediction of resurrection would not have necessarily been shocking or extraordinary in biblical times. Jesus has already been raising people from the dead and the crowds have wondered if ancient prophets have been resurrected in Him.

Jesus is also presented as apocalyptic prophet and He speaks of end times. They could arrive soon . . . even in the lifetime of those present.

What are we to make of Jesus saying his followers need to deny themselves and take up the cross daily? Those who want to save their life will lose it and those who lose their life for His sake will save it. Quite a paradox Jesus gives us here! Could he be saying that those who focus on faith as a means of salvation are missing the mark?

Is Jesus suggesting that self-sacrifice is necessary in order to follow Him? In losing something of our previous lives we will save ourselves?

These are a puzzling few verses.
I suppose if we walked into an Isis controlled state,speaking against it, one could, predict ones death too.
And some in the early church believed in reincarnation didnt they? Could this explain the questions of whether the ancient profits had been raised in him and Jesus' acheivement of a perfected life and losing somethings of his previous lives, will bring him upon death, to be with God and stop the reincarnation process?
Of course this goes against all of our church teachings and points to resurrection as something that must happen before one dies.
 
Here is an interesting interpretation from The Message with the NRSV for comparison purposes:

Luke 9:23-25 The Message (MSG)
23-25 Then he told them what they could expect for themselves: “Anyone who intends to come with me has to let me lead. You’re not in the driver’s seat—I am. Don’t run from suffering; embrace it. Follow me and I’ll show you how. Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self. What good would it do to get everything you want and lose you, the real you?

Luke 9:23-25 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
23 Then he said to them all, “If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it. 25 What does it profit them if they gain the whole world, but lose or forfeit themselves?
 
Interesting note, the study Bible I use mentions that the last verse is partially fulfilled by those (Peter, John and James) who witnessed the Transfiguration, which is related in the next passage.
The transfiguration story, coming up as tomorrow's text, provides more answers to the question posed by Jesus, "Who do you say I am?"
 
I should note, just for clarity's sake-- that's from the HarperCollins Study Bible.
 
The transfiguration story, coming up as tomorrow's text, provides more answers to the question posed by Jesus, "Who do you say I am?"
Should we clarify the definition and meaning of transfiguration beforehand then?
What is it exactly, in any ones opinion? And is this something only Jesus can acheive?
 
Should we clarify the definition and meaning of transfiguration beforehand then?
What is it exactly, in any ones opinion? And is this something only Jesus can acheive?

We should leave that for tomorrow, but suffice it to say that's one of the more obvious myths in the gospel IMHO and it's about the significance of Jesus and his relationship to his predecessors rather than something that really happened.
 
We should leave that for tomorrow, but suffice it to say that's one of the more obvious myths in the gospel IMHO and it's about the significance of Jesus and his relationship to his predecessors rather than something that really happened.
You think transfiguration is a myth?
 
Yep, as I generally do with the supernatural elements of the Gospels. Thought I had always been pretty clear on that point.
I think I will open a new thread on tranfiguration and resurrection...if you care to comment further.
 
I think I will open a new thread on transfiguration and resurrection...if you care to comment further.

Go ahead. I shall comment further there though I won't promise to stick with it for a long time. It's not like I have anything new to say on the subject that I haven't already said in myriad threads going back to the original WC.
 
Todays Scripture

Luke 9:21-27(GW)
21 He ordered them not to tell this to anyone.

Jesus Foretells That He Will Die and Come Back to Life

22 Jesus said that the Son of Man would have to suffer a lot. He would be rejected by the leaders, the chief priests, and the experts in Moses’ Teachings. He would be killed, but on the third day he would come back to life.

What It Means to Follow Jesus
23 He said to all of them, “Those who want to come with me must say no to the things they want, pick up their crosses every day, and follow me. 24 Those who want to save their lives will lose them. But those who lose their lives for me will save them. 25 What good does it do for people to win the whole world but lose their lives by destroying them? 26 If people are ashamed of me and what I say, the Son of Man will be ashamed of those people when he comes in the glory that he shares with the Father and the holy angels.

27 “I can guarantee this truth: Some people who are standing here will not die until they see God’s kingdom.”


unsafe says ----So in verse 22 we see that Jesus is telling of His Death and Resurrection to His Disciples ----- He is to suffer greatly and be rejected -----So what does this really mean -----

Verse 22 Jesus said that the Son of Man would have to suffer a lot. He would be rejected by the leaders, the chief priests, and the experts in Moses’ Teachings. He would be killed, but on the third day he would come back to life.


unsafe says ----So the Greek word here for suffer is

Strong's Concordance
paschó: to suffer, to be acted on
to experience a sensation or impression (usually painful) -- feel, passion, suffer, vex.

unsafe says and posted here ------This is from
Suffering Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

To suffer death." Here the clearest references are to the suffering or passion of Christ, which indeed includes the enduring of untold hardships and affliction, all of which culminate in His vicarious death for man Luke 9:22


unsafe says -----This is the Greek word for reject in this Scripture ---

Strong's Concordance
apodokimazó: to reject

593 apodokimázō (from 575 /apó, "away from" and 1381/dokimázō, "to prove, test") – properly, to cast away after thorough investigation (testing); to reject after determining something is useless (unworthy).


unsafe says ----So we see here that Jesus was rendered useless ----unworthy -----How humiliating that would be for a regular person to be rendered Useless --Unworthy and killed because they were considered like garbage ---How would we feel if others rendered us that way today -----
Isis comes to mind here as they are driving out and Killing innocent people considering them useless and unworthy ----


unsafe says ---So in verse 23 we see Jesus saying ---- 23 He said to all of them, “Those who want to come with me must say no to the things they want, pick up their crosses every day, and follow me.


unsafe says -----So what does this Word Cross actually mean in this sentence in the Greek -------

Strong's Concordance
stauros: an upright stake, hence a cross (the Rom. instrument of crucifixion)

[The "cross" is not a symbol for suffering in general.
Rather it refers to withstanding persecution (difficult times), by the Lord's power, as He directs the circumstances of life. As Christ's disciples, believers are to hold true – even when attacked by the ungodly.



unsafe says ----Today this is such an important message to all Believers -----

So we see this word Cross here is relaying on God's Grace to withstand persecution as He directs our lives -----We are to hold True to God and His Word even when we are personally attacked or have insults hurled at us by unbelievers ---this takes maturity and thick skin on the Believers part and lots of Practice ------


To Follow Jesus today you need to have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit ----anyone who thinks they can Follow Jesus on the own Power is duped by Satan the god of this world -----


Verse 24 says -----24 Those who want to save their lives will lose them. But those who lose their lives for me will save them

unsafe says -------When we deny Christ and live for self we will loose our eternal Life ----when we deny self and receive Christ and Live for Him we will save our eternal life ------


Verses 25and 26 ------25 What good does it do for people to win the whole world but lose their lives by destroying them? 26 If people are ashamed of me and what I say, the Son of Man will be ashamed of those people when he comes in the glory that he shares with the Father and the holy angels.

unsafe says ---these verse are self explanatory in my view -----


Verse 27 ----
27 “I can guarantee this truth: Some people who are standing here will not die until they see God’s kingdom.”


unsafe says
--- if you look up the Word Kingdom in the Greek used in this scripture -----it seems to refer to Christ's return not to the transfiguration

Strong's Concordance
basileia
: kingdom, sovereignty, royal power

But far more frequently the kingdom of heaven is spoken of as a future blessing, since its consummate establishment is to be looked for on Christ's solemn return from the skies, the dead being called to life again, the ills and wrongs which burden the present state of things being done away, the powers hostile to God being vanquished: Luke 9:27


Believers are to take up their Cross and follow Jesus

30818-holy-week-cross-1200.630w.tn_.jpg
 
unsafe says ----So we see here that Jesus was rendered useless ----unworthy -----How humiliating that would be for a regular person to be rendered Useless --Unworthy and killed because they were considered like garbage ---How would we feel if others rendered us that way today -----
Isis comes to mind here as they are driving out and Killing innocent people considering them useless and unworthy ----

I don't think you have to look as far as Isis. Americans without medical care thanks to the actions of their governments are apparently unworthy of life, useless, unworthy, etc. Or even the way we in Canada treat our poor and homeless people, particularly our indigenous neighbours.
 
Summary: Luke 9: 28 - 36

Jesus takes Peter, John and James with him and goes up a mountain to pray. As he prays, the appearance of his face changes and his clothes become dazzling white. Suddenly Moses and Elijah appear, speaking with Jesus about His departure (to be soon in Jerusalem.)

The disciples are very tired but stay awake. Peter suggests making three dwellings for Jesus, Moses and Elijah.

A cloud overshadows them and a voice from the cloud says, "This is my Son, my Chosen, listen to him!"

Then Jesus is found alone. The disciples tell no one what they have seen.
 
Reflection: Luke 9: 28 - 36

Somewhere I have picked up the idea that Peter proposes building Succoth (sukkot) huts. Not sure where I might have read or heard this.

Interesting that prayer is so transformative for Jesus.

Here the gospel writer has established Jesus as the spiritual successor of Moses and Elijah, representing the Law and the Prophets. The text also gives us Jesus as the Son and Chosen of God.

More to consider now, as we try to answer that question posed by Jesus, "Who do you say that I am?"
 
I think there's a connection between this event and the baptism, in the voice-- at the baptism, it's addressing one person- 'You are my Son, my Beloved'. But here, the voice addresses the others-- 'This is my Son, my Chosen.' Even though the disciples tell no one what they experienced there, it seems that the Voice is just about ready to go public, or something like that.
 
Reflection: Luke 9: 21 - 27

Before today's text, Jesus has just asked the disciples who the crowds are saying He is. Who do the disciples say He is? The Messiah of God, Peter responded.

The question is as relevant today as it was 2000+ yrs ago, some say he's a mystic, others a prophet or simply a man, I say Jesus is the Son Of God,,, God in the flesh

who do you say He is

Jesus does not identify himself as savior or redeemer, yet He predicts his death and resurrection.



actually, yes Jesus does identify Himself a savior, this is throughout scripture, from the OT right through the NT.


A prediction of resurrection would not have necessarily been shocking or extraordinary in biblical times. Jesus has already been raising people from the dead and the crowds have wondered if ancient prophets have been resurrected in Him.

actually, it was very shocking, raising Lazarus whose body began to decompose and stink and then claiming his own resurrection, it was so unbelievable no one could even fathom at the though.

What are we to make of Jesus saying his followers need to deny themselves and take up the cross daily? Those who want to save their life will lose it and those who lose their life for His sake will save it. Quite a paradox Jesus gives us here! Could he be saying that those who focus on faith as a means of salvation are missing the mark?

The ego/self always strives and fights for 1st place in this world, as Jesus was selfless, become self as Jesus

Is Jesus suggesting that self-sacrifice is necessary in order to follow Him? In losing something of our previous lives we will save ourselves?

indeed, lose your ego, your self and become selfless in God . All in the next Life are renewed , sinless & selfless. All Power, Honor & Glory belong to One
 
The question is as relevant today as it was 2000+ yrs ago, some say he's a mystic, others a prophet or simply a man, I say Jesus is the Son Of God,,, God in the flesh

who do you say He is
Indeed it is still an extremely relevant question.

If you are asking me who I personally say Jesus is, I attempted to answer upthread. See post #852.
 
actually, yes Jesus does identify Himself a savior, this is throughout scripture, from the OT right through the NT.
Not specifically in Luke 9: 21-27, I didn't think. But yes, you can find support for this idea elsewhere in scripture.
 
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