Bible Study Thread: Luke

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jae said:
One of them had even figured out that the money on hand wouldn't be enough to buy bread for all the crowd, since there were 5,000 men present, plus women and children.
Click to expand...
The disciples' consideration of the amount of money on hand and the presence of women and children are details from other gospel accounts. They are not in Luke's version of the story.

I am Reporting the above post for a ruling from the mods. You have been repeatedly asked to stop conflating the various gospels.

And I have requested many times that you identify where and why you are bringing other scriptures into the discussion. Not saying you cannot do this for comparison purposes or other reasons. Just asking you to be upfront about it.

I am not seeking a thread ban, by the way. Just hoping for a reminder to follow the guidelines for this thread.
 
This is a reminder to all posters that this is a Bible study thread led by Paradox. There are clear guidelines for participating in this thread and moderation is more stringent. As identified by Paradox, conflating Gospels confuses a discussion that is explicitly focused on study of a particular Gospel.

To all posters. Please abide by the guidelines and Paradox's leadership. If you are drawing upon other sources, including other Gospels, please identify the source and state why you are including the new material in the conversation.
 
Last edited:
DaisyJane said:
This is a reminder to all posters that this is a Bible study thread led by Paradox. There are clear guidelines for participating in this thread and moderation is more stringent. As identified by Paradox, conflating Gospels confuses a discussion that is explicitly focused on study of a particular Gospel.

To all posters. Please abide by the guidelines and Paradox's leadership. If you are drawing upon other sources, including other Gospels, please identify the source and state why you are including the new material in the conversation.
Click to expand...

@paradox3
I am Reporting the above post for a ruling from the mods. You have been repeatedly asked to stop conflating the various gospels.
Click to expand...


sorry, one cannot have a proper HONEST Bible study, without the other 3 eyewitness accounts, many times scholars have to look to other accounts to understand times, words and meaning of how they were used, to get a clear picture.

To Limit bible study to one witness at a times does not do any Justice to the Gospel accounts at all, and though, I understand paradox3 started this study, I would think all on an open form all are allowed to participate respectfully their views,,, @Jae is corrected in decerning through other witness accounts to understand the fullness of what the Gospel writers are witnessing too.

This is the 2nd time on this thread we have been told not to include other accounts, I cannot witness to 1/4 of Jesus. If the mods moderate this form according to 1 gospel account at a time, then, as much as I would like to participate, Im out .
 
blackbelt1961 said:
sorry, one cannot have a proper HONEST Bible study, without the other 3 eyewitness accounts, many times scholars have to look to other accounts to understand times, words and meaning of how they were used, to get a clear picture.

To Limit bible study to one witness at a times does not do any Justice to the Gospel accounts at all, and though, I understand paradox3 started this study, I would think all on an open form are allowed to participate .@Jae is corrected in decerning through other witness accounts to understand the fullness of what the Gospel writers are witnessing too.

This is the 2nd time on this thread we have been told not to include other accounts, I cannot witness to 1/4 of Jesus if the mods moderate this form according to 1 gospel account at a time, then, as much as I would like to participate, Im out .
Click to expand...

If you read carefully, nowhere does it say you CAN'T cross reference other accounts of the story, only that you should indicate that. Jae conflated the stories into a single story rather discussing Luke with reference to the other stories, indicating where he was referencing other stories. It's like discussing the Christmas story in Matthew and bringing in the shepherds and angels without mentioning that those are from Luke's version.
 
Agreed. It isn't that you can't bring other accounts into the conversation, it is that we've been asked not to conflate them. That is, include something from another Gospel as if it was discussed in Luke. Part of studying the Gospels in particular is exploring how each document describes incidents - what they include, what they leave out.

When studying the Gospels I use a parallel Gospel which looks at particular narratives and clearly identifies how each particular story is described in each Gospel. It helps me keep track of what I am reading and helps me avoid the sort of conflating that concerns P3.

While I will defer to P3 here, I don't get the sense that one can't talk about another Gospel, only that you identify that the reading is from another Gospel. So something like, "isn't it interesting that Luke doesn't include X but Mark does:.
 
Last edited:
Todays Scripture ----
Luke 9:10-17 GW

Jesus Feeds Five Thousand
10 The apostles came back and told Jesus everything they had done. He took them with him to a city called Bethsaida so that they could be alone. 11 But the crowds found out about this and followed him. He welcomed them, talked to them about God’s kingdom, and cured those who were sick.

12 Toward the end of the day, the twelve apostles came to him. They said to him, “Send the crowd to the closest villages and farms so that they can find some food and a place to stay. No one lives around here.”

13 Jesus replied, “You give them something to eat.”

They said to him, “We have five loaves of bread and two fish. Unless we go to buy food for all these people, that’s all we have.” 14 (There were about five thousand men.)

Then he told his disciples, “Have them sit in groups of about fifty.” 15 So they did this.

16 Then he took the five loaves and the two fish, looked up to heaven, and blessed the food. He broke the loaves apart and kept giving them to the disciples to give to the crowd. 17 All of them ate as much as they wanted. When they picked up the leftover pieces, they filled twelve baskets.


unsafe says ----We see in verse 10 -----that Jesus wanted to go to a place and have some solicitude time ------
10 The apostles came back and told Jesus everything they had done. He took them with him to a city called Bethsaida so that they could be alone.

Jesus realized that making provision for rest is very important for people to do so they don't get to tired and worn out so they can't function in their daily duties ----- Preaching and moving from place to place can be grueling and exhausting on the mind and body and Resting is a vital part of any job -----

We see Jesus even in His tiredness to rest when the crowds came He never turned them away ------True Compassion is shown here ---


unsafe says -----The feeding of the 5,000 is a Creative Miracle ------It is a Monumental Miracle because of the many --many eye witness accounts -----

Jesus creates more from the less -----

16 Then he took the five loaves and the two fish, looked up to heaven, and blessed the food. He broke the loaves apart and kept giving them to the disciples to give to the crowd.

17 All of them ate as much as they wanted. When they picked up the leftover pieces, they filled twelve baskets.


unsafe says ---So we see in verse 16 ----Jesus looks to heaven and Blessed the food -------This lets us know that all mercies and blessings in life come from God

When Jesus Blessed the food the lesser became more -----We are to understand that Jesus will not see those who Fear Him and Faithfully Serve Him will want for any good thing ---The Blessings of Christ will make a little go long way ----Jesus fills every hungry soul--- and will abundantly satisfies it His goodness ------

And in verse 17 --We see all had as much as they wanted and the pieces left over filled a dozen baskets -----

unsafe says ------This says that With Jesus we are not poverty stricken in Christ ---- Jesus came to take away the Curse and bring back the Blessing for all who have Faith in Him and receive Him as their Lord and Saviour -----



76.+Blessed+Storehouses.jpg
 
clarifying this statement from my post above -------Jesus fills every hungry soul--- and will abundantly satisfy it with His goodness ------
 
More number 12 here, that we just heard about in the stories of the woman with the 12 year flow and the healing of Jairus' 12 year old daughter. Here, we have 12 baskets of leftovers.

And interestingly enough, despite 'our' conjecture that people just brought out what they had, and thus extended the little bit of loaves and fishes to feed the crowd, the text mentions Jesus "breaking bread and keeping on giving it to the disciples" as if it were like a miracle on the water to wine scale.
 
Summary: Luke 9: 18 - 21

Jesus is praying alone, with only the disciples near him.

He asks, "Who do the crowds say I am?

They answer, John the Baptist, Elijah or one of the ancient prophets who has arisen.

Jesus persists, "But who do you say I am?"

Peter replies, "The Messiah of God." Jesus orders them to tell no one what Peter has said.
 
Last edited:
Reflection: Luke 9: 18 - 21

Here we have Jesus praying with only the disciples nearby. What was He praying about, I wonder? Was he seeking God's will for Him? It seems that the act of prayer might have led him to pose the question about his identity.

The disciples' reply concerning the ancient prophets echoes Herod's perplexity earlier in this chapter.

Jesus takes the question a little farther, "But who do you say I am?" (v. 20)

So who do we say Jesus is? What a great question to ponder on this first day of Lent!

My childhood view of Jesus was a tender shepherd, based on a prayer my mom and I said together when I was very young. I still remember most of the words, and thanks to google, was able to find them. This prayer, I just learned, was written in 1839. Here is my introduction to theology: :)

Jesus, tender Shepherd, hear me;
Bless Thy little lamb to-night:
Through the darkness be Thou near me,
Keep me safe till morning light.

All this day Thy hand has led me,
And I thank Thee for Thy care;
Thou hast warmed me, clothed and fed me;
Listen to my evening prayer!

Let my sins be all forgiven;
Bless the friends I love so well:
Take us all at last to heaven,
Happy there with Thee to dwell.

Sunday School reinforced the idea of Jesus as shepherd.

Explorers and CGIT introduced Jesus as ethical teacher, I would say. I remember a fair amount of focus on Luke's gospel.

Not sure where the dying/ rising savior came in but I certainly picked it up at an early age. I never understood the resurrection as a literal event. And I was actually quite surprised when I realized (as an adult) others understood it this way.

Jewish mystic? One of my favorite views of Jesus these days.

Revolutionary. Master of passive resistance. Reformer of Judaism

Cornerstone of the world faith known as Christianity. The One we follow.

Apocalyptic preacher. This view predominates in scripture to a great extent, as I recently learned on the Matthew and Mark study threads.

Who do you say Jesus is?
 
That is a big question, indeed. I've done entire sermons over the years on this passage, and its parallels, and really have yet to come up with a simple quick answer. (Which is probably OK; There is a proverb that says, to every deep question, there is an answer that's simple, easy to understand... and wrong). I would suggest that Jesus is ALL the things you mention... and more. The Son, the Beloved, the Chosen, someone who listened, who followed faithfully even to the cross, who somehow overcame death, who somehow still lives, who somehow still makes a difference.

BTW, I was raised in a rather conservative congregation. As a child the Resurrection was about the most important thing the Sunday School teachers told us-- an empty grave proved it, because the Bible tells us so, etc etc. I was more stunned as a late teen- early 20's person that there were those who DIDN'T understand it that way...
 
@Redbaron I can certainly understand how an entire sermon could be preached on this text or one of its parallels. In fact, I heard such a sermon years ago preached by none other than Gretta Vosper. She encouraged us all to answer the question for ourselves, as I remember. Kind of ironic when you think about it, since Gretta and I parted company over this very issue a few years later.

Not wanting to derail us into a tangent about GV . . . just remembering something quite pivotal on my journey of faith.

Who do we say Jesus is? Quite a question to ponder.
 
Well, we can say for followers of Christ, that pondering who Jesus is IS pivotal to the faith! That's why this incident is such a goldmine for sermons.
But I do wonder, even if Peter got the words right, if he really understood what the words meant.
 
paradox3 said:
Who do you say Jesus is?
Click to expand...

Historical: Preacher, teacher, prophet to the Jewish people of 1st century Judea. One among many such in that time but one who apparently stood out for some. Apparently executed for being a challenge to the authorities, which may be why he stood out.

Mythological: Saviour figure whose death and resurrection heralded a new human relationship to God. Essentially, taking the historical figure and building a body of mythological stories (the birth narratives, miracles, etc.) around him.
 
paradox3 said:
Yes, and did the disciples understand why Jesus was ordering them to tell no one?
Click to expand...

And if he did, indeed, keep telling people "don't tell anyone" (the Jesus Seminar doesn't "red-letter" any of those sort of statements), why is that? He's saying he doesn't want to be known, but he's wandering the countryside attracting crowds and healing people of intractable ailments, and making provocative statements.
 
Todays Scripture ------

Luke 9:18-21 GW
Peter Declares His Belief about Jesus
18 Once when Jesus was praying privately and his disciples were with him, he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”

19 They answered, “Some say you are John the Baptizer, others Elijah, and still others say that one of the prophets from long ago has come back to life.”

20 He asked them, “But who do you say I am?”

Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, whom God has sent.”

21 He ordered them not to tell this to anyone.


unsafe says -----We see Jesus is Praying off by Himself from the crowds but His Disciples remain need by ------

In my view ---Speculation here ---- He would have been Praying to His Father for the appropriate time to Question the Disciples about who the People thought He really was -----and also if the time was appropriate for it to be revealed to the Disciples who Jesus really was --

unsafe says -----I assume this cause the next sentence is ----- he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”

unsafe says -----Jesus would not have asked that question on His own ----Jesus did what His Father told Him to do and He said what His Father to Him to say ------so for me His Prayer time was asking His Father if this was the right time to ask the Questions He did -----


unsafe says ---We see in the next verse that the Disciples answer Him with this statement --------- 19 They answered, “Some say you are John the Baptizer, others Elijah, and still others say that one of the prophets from long ago has come back to life.”


We see in verse 20 ----The next Question is for the Disciples of who they think Jesus is the answer is given ------20 He asked them, “But who do you say I am?”
Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, whom God has sent.”


unsafe says ------Peter did not get this information by or through his own intellect ------This was Revealed to Peter by and through the Holy Spirit -this did not come from any Human knowledge or wisdom ---it was a Divine Revelation ------

And that is the way it is today ---No Human Mind can or will ever have or reveal that which is Divine Knowledge or Wisdom through their own human intellect that comes from God -----The Holy Spirit is the only Person who can and will Reveal any Divine Wisdom or Knowledge and today to have this great Privilege --You Must Have The Holy Spirit Dwelling In You ------Otherwise we are away from God and belong to the god of this world ----- And That is Scriptural -------


We see in Verse 21-----21 He ordered them not to tell this to anyone.


unsafe's view -----Jesus had not died yet and the knowledge and wisdom of them knowing and revealing that He was The Son of God would only come to them after witnessing His Resurrection and receiving the Holy Spirit -----the time had not come for this to be revealed and so Jesus gives the command not to tell anyone ------

You can imagine if the Disciples were to go and announce what was Divinely reviled to Peter was heard by the Pharisees and scribes what would happen ----They already hated Jesus and did in no way believe He was their Messiah and wanted Him out of the way ---to be proclaimed the Son of God would have probably put the Pharisees ---Scribes ---Rome and Caesar in a tail spin ------many saw the Miracles Jesus did and still didn't believe in who He was -------


unsafe says ----==Who is Jesus ????-----

Jesus is the Son of God -----He is the Logos ---He is God -----He is The Saviour of the World ---He is the Suffering Servant ---He is the Messiah ----He is the Healer ---He is the Second Person of the Trinity ----He is the 2nd Adam --He is Lord --He is the Christ ---He is the Master -He is the Son of Man ---He is the Son of David ---He is the Lamb of God ----He is the Lion of Judah --He is Emmanuel --He is Jehovah ----

More Names
O.T. Names of God - Study Resources

and the list goes on

namesofgod4.jpg
 
Summary: Luke 9: 21 - 27

Jesus foretells his death and resurrection. The Son of Man must undergo great suffering, He says, and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and scribes. He will be killed and on the third day be raised.

Then He tells them all, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it."

And what does it profit them if they gain the whole world, but lose or forfeit themselves?

Jesus predicts that the Son of Man will come in His glory and in the glory of the Father and the holy angels. The Son of Man will be ashamed of anyone who has been ashamed of Him and His words.

Some standing here will see the kingdom of God before they die.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top