TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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People on the right have compassion for the poor? Please. People on the right lavish money on the very rich with forgiveness of taxes, for example. U.S. working class incomes have been declining for years.
 
Northwind said:
No. Left does not equal grassroots and right does not equal top down. Left/ right, authoritarian/libertarian are four quadrants. One can be left and authoritarian or right and libertarian.

This is the quadrant as it shows our Canadian parties. There is more information if you want to explore.

Vote Compass

I would lean left and libertarian. The two areas are not incompatible.
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Yes. Today the right is top down, and the left is bottom up. Anything/ anyone “positively” influenced by Ayn Rand (who I think may have been a sociopath) has strong notes of authoritarianism (via individual liberty motivated oligarchy). Libertarianism lends itself to authoritarianism nicely, because when there’s a vacuum created by no laws/ no government/ no taxes, thinking, somebody steps in with a strong arm to create order under the false auspices of freedom (kind of like the “free speech” movement on the right was actually about the spread of fascism but libertarians ate it up). That’s why the right courts libertarians...because their naive ideology is so full of holes they can fill. Just look at how many libertarians bought into Jordan Peterson whose free speech was directly correlated with his refusal to recognize trans rights as human rights, first of all...and lately he’s been doing speeches about the evils of postmodernneomarxistfemisists to the far right youth brigade called turning points USA ... sponsored by the Koch’s and represented by Trump Jr. The right is just using free speech as a strategy...to ultimately try to quell free speech in the form of dissent against racism, sexism and other forms of egregious bigotry, and to trample on human rights.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Today the right is top down, and the left is bottom up
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Maybe. I disagree with this. Again, there are four quadrants: left/right, authoritarian/libertarian. A person can be authoritarian and left wing. Many libertarians are right wing. When I looked up the definition, one suggested libertarian is associated with the left. In fact, traditional liberals would resemble Scrooge. The liberal view comes from a laissez faire view, which would be libertarian.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Libertarianism lends itself to authoritarianism nicely
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No, libertarian is the opposite of authoritarian. Yes, I did read the rest of your argument to support this. If it leaves a vacuum it may evolve into authoritarian. They are still opposites.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
The right is just using free speech as a strategy...to ultimately try to quell free speech in the form of dissent against racism, sexism and other forms of egregious bigotry, and to trample on human rights.
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Really? All I hear from people on the right is that the "Left" is trying to quell free speech by banning certain things. An example would be Ravelry (the knitting/crochet site) banning all things Trump.

It is never good to speak from an ideology or extreme.
 
Their whole thing is that they don't want liberal progressives to be able to protest them - that is the whole impetus behind the "fake news"/ lugenpresse campaign and the charge that social media and google are biased. They want universities to promote their narrative so they would like to do away with open inquiry and changing norms - and so the left is a threat. They want to take it over with far right wing narratives. To be anti-fascist...against fascism...they want to lump everybody into an "Antifa" group. Such a group if it exists is limited to a few kids getting in neo-nazis faces at protests. The greater threat are organized neonazi groups and a re-emboldened kkk. The allies who fought the Nazis and those who stood up to racism and anti-semitism in political and cultural life ever since then were "Antifa". It is short for anti-fascist. To be antifascist was never a bad thing. Trump tried to twist it into "anti-first amendment" be very careful about the two sides argument. It's not true. A bunch of kids with sticks in Portland Oregon or Berkley doesn't make it true. The white nationalist emboldening in recent years, in particular, is the biggest threat to freedom. Heather Heyer who was killed in Charlottesville was antifascist. People are going to have to start saying antifascism in full and letting it sink in.

Your right wing Trump supporting knitter colleagues obviously don't get the bigger problem. They're griping because they can't display their knit right wing MAGA stuff on a site someone else owns. Aww.

I totally understand. people of colour feel threatened by white nationalist propaganda (in fact wasn't the rule put in place because someone was actually threatened?) They shouldn't need to have to deal with that on a knitting site.
 
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Who says it's never good to speak from an ideology? Where do you get that from? Everybody does. Our societies are structured on ideological principals. Fascist ideologies want to return to grand narratives of the past when the white European heroes rode in and made the west the best. They don't have time to hear the marginalized quibble about generations of injustice and a different history from the one they want to believe and promote - the history of the victims of their conquests who are still oppressed and subjugated to their narratives...they want to ignore truths about history and the ongoing struggle for social justice by trying to demonize it. They don't want progressive change or equality because they experience it as a loss of status. That's why they want to control university curriculum too. This is a fascist tactic - the pseudo intelligentsia attacks progressive humanistic ideas like human rights. First they complain about free speech, then they try to stop opposition to structurally rooted bigotry, and to stop ideas intended to get people to think about and move toward equality.
 
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Basically, to many the MAGA hat is a hate symbol now - for good reason. To white supremacists it means make America white again...and there is a huge uptick neonazi activity since Trump was elected. People need to understand how pervasive the far right is to understand that. So censoring photos of MAGA knitting that is actually MAGA support is NOT the same as stifling dissent. Both are not equally weighted free speech limitations - they cannot be compared.
 
They're just trying to express that the are better than the alternates ... you know anybody other ... creating the human flaw and divine fudging for the conquering! Thus djinns and daemons rise from the sans ... SUR rections to counter the sous-la?

It is all about heavenly relativity ... but some can't relate to everything being connected ... a glassy perspective?
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
They want universities to promote their narrative so they would like to do away with open inquiry and changing norms - and so the left is a threat.
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And we see a variation of the same at universities. From my understanding, universities are no longer places where differing views can be expressed. Many of our Canadian universities only support views on the left. Anyone to the right is shut out and protested. someone like @Graeme Decarie might be able to comment better than I can.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
They shouldn't need to have to deal with that on a knitting site.
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I absolutely agree. I support Ravelry's decision. The argument though is that all views need to be expressed. Shutting down one "side" silences that side. Where does that lead in the end?

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Who says it's never good to speak from an ideology?
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We do all speak from our own ideologies and perspectives. I agree. The problem is when we get locked in and unable to consider other views, even if considering them leads to rejecting them. Sometimes ideologies are like rose-coloured (or other coloured) glasses. We need to be aware of our biases.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
They don't want progressive change or equality because they experience it as a loss of status.
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I am well aware of this. We do need to challenge oppression and the structures that support it. Sometimes it means looking the hatred, etc in the face and confronting it rather than silencing it.
 
Universities should be progressive places of learning and growth where old racist and bigoted tropes are not being taught...at least not from a perspective of acceptance and admiration.
 
Northwind said:
And we see a variation of the same at universities. From my understanding, universities are no longer places where differing views can be expressed. Many of our Canadian universities only support views on the left. Anyone to the right is shut out and protested. someone like @Graeme Decarie might be able to comment better than I can.



I absolutely agree. I support Ravelry's decision. The argument though is that all views need to be expressed. Shutting down one "side" silences that side. Where does that lead in the end?



We do all speak from our own ideologies and perspectives. I agree. The problem is when we get locked in and unable to consider other views, even if considering them leads to rejecting them. Sometimes ideologies are like rose-coloured (or other coloured) glasses. We need to be aware of our biases.



I am well aware of this. We do need to challenge oppression and the structures that support it. Sometimes it means looking the hatred, etc in the face and confronting it rather than silencing it.
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I am aware of my biases and I have them for good reason. What good is confronting racism and bigotry and oppression, then continuing to tolerate it, and expecting marginalized groups whose very safety feels threatened, because it has been...to tolerate it also? How will that change anything? How is that actually challenging rather than giving it a pass? Saying, “I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on this.” That might seem more reasonable if you don’t identify as someone from one of the marginalized groups they’re prejudiced against...that’s a bit harder if you are from a group that person hates, just based on human characteristics that you cannot change. No, right wing bigoted professors should not be working at universities in this day and age...and if they do they need to be teaching subjects where their bigoted views never come up...because that’s their problem and shouldn’t be anyone else’s. If they do, they need to be reprimanded. Especially in this era we’re in...where far right white nationalists, misogynists and neonazis have picked up strength...and these types of professors only help them, even if they don’t believe they are trying to. The pushback from the right “pseudo-intelligentsia” is so extreme they want subjects like women’s studies, black history, and indigenous studies cancelled, and they are making lists of professors and subjects to avoid.

The cunning white nationalists and far right bigots will try to blend in and make their message seem more palatable, but underneath that are darker forces at work.


In the case of ravelry, maybe it leads to them starting their own site elsewhere...but in the long run hopefully it can lead to attitudes changing with the social environment, by example. And where it doesn’t they just have to keep their bigotry to themselves and recognize that they cannot affect anyone else with it. In a generation or two, if that bigotry is not seen and heard everywhere it will not influence those generations to the same degree.


:(
 
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Radiation in victims of missile launch are due to environment crabs ... not a missal failure. Do the lies of oligarchs match up?

It seems the pits of the lies come from bottom line explanations ... as low as you can go!
 
I do recognize the right appears to be wanting to limit free speech using different methods. In a polarized society, both sides can be accused of this.
 
Psyche mediums should be eliminated because they don't meet radical standards ... sort of like bosons that are without Maas or volume ... neigh non existent like intelligence in a radically emotional world one way or the other! Hoo mon stoppers as Bungs?

The sage said stop and know ... but little do we gather! At least until near crushed by radicalization ...
 
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