Transgenderism ..... ask your questions!

[Beloved]

RitaTG . . . I am trying to imagine myself (a woman) living in a male body . . . and I can't imagine what that would be like, it has not been my experience. And I'm trying to imagine how I would feel right now if I was who I am, and living in a body that does not reflect who I feel inside.

I'm thinking about a woman, born in a male body, and being brought up male, and living as a male for their life . . . and I'm thinking how hard it must be to be a woman, but to be expected to live and live up to what is expected as a man and a man's role in society.

A man is expected to take care of, protect, provide for, be tough, be strong, defend, etc. etc. For my huband, most of these things come "naturally" because of his male make-up. He does things and reacts to things in a different way than I do because of his maleness. I know some of it is personality and character, etc. but I do believe some of it is gender-related. I'm wondering, at the times you were trying to live up to your place in life as a male, perhaps a young male, or a new husband or father, was there any fear or concern as to whether you would be able to do what was expected of you at the time?

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

A man is expected to take care of, protect, provide for, be tough, be strong, defend, etc. etc.

I am thinking of all the single mothers out there- and that's exactly what they need to be...and are. You can't survive otherwise.
Those role expectations are getting a bit old fashioned.

 

[Beloved]

I am thinking of all the single mothers out there- and that's exactly what they need to be...and are. You can't survive otherwise.
Those role expectations are getting a bit old fashioned.

Yes, I agree Mrs. Anteater, they are old-fashioned . . . although I don't know RitaG's age, my guess is that when she was a young adult that they were still in a bit in fashion.

 

[Tabitha]

like you Mrs. A I too am a single parent who raised my children with me as sole adult in house. We did all because we needed to. However I have a friend who has male and female jobs in her house.

 

[Beloved]

I agree Mrs. Anteater and Tabitha . . . there are many single moms and single dads out there who have raised children and have had to do it all . . . and have done an amazing job . . . I know many of these wonderful women and men myself.

My question to Rita was more a question of the feelings and emotions within herself as woman trying to fulfil a male role in her early life.

 

[revsdd]

As I said above, I was raised in a single mom home, so my understanding of gender roles was different, but most of my friends growing up in the 70's had working dads and stay at home moms, and interestingly enough in spite of my family of origin, that's now my family dynamic. My wife chooses to be a stay at home mom. It's less common, but still there and in situations where children have both mom and dad at home and only one parent is employed, I'm betting that in most of those cases it's still dad who works and mom who stays at home.

 

[BetteTheRed]

This is just anecdotal revsdd, but I don't think that's the dynamic in my neighbourhood (which happens to be a short block away from a public school). Seems to be a large number of men pushing those strollers during the day. I think that the generation having children now, in their 20s and 30s, are evolving a very different gender dynamic than we realize, partly due to the huge participation rates of women (higher than men) in post-secondary education and the movement towards a service/information economy.

 

[RitaTG]

Airport travel is a huge barrier for us ....... and the problem is that it is federally controlled.
That means that I have no trans specific rights .......
This is another big reason we are fighting so hard to get Bill C-279 through the senate.
That would make the federal human rights code similar to the Ontario Human Rights Code.
We need this ..... and the conservative government is blocking it.
19 months and counting in the senate .... and all sorts of moves afoot to kill the bill in various ways....
Really makes one feel like an "it" .....
Air travel ..... oh my ...... I don't want to go through the humiliation....

 

[RitaTG]

RitaTG . . . I am trying to imagine myself (a woman) living in a male body . . . and I can't imagine what that would be like, it has not been my experience. And I'm trying to imagine how I would feel right now if I was who I am, and living in a body that does not reflect who I feel inside.

I'm thinking about a woman, born in a male body, and being brought up male, and living as a male for their life . . . and I'm thinking how hard it must be to be a woman, but to be expected to live and live up to what is expected as a man and a man's role in society.

A man is expected to take care of, protect, provide for, be tough, be strong, defend, etc. etc. For my huband, most of these things come "naturally" because of his male make-up. He does things and reacts to things in a different way than I do because of his maleness. I know some of it is personality and character, etc. but I do believe some of it is gender-related. I'm wondering, at the times you were trying to live up to your place in life as a male, perhaps a young male, or a new husband or father, was there any fear or concern as to whether you would be able to do what was expected of you at the time?

All the time Beloved .... all the time.....
How could I possibly be a "real" father when I have this conflict within me ..... I am a freak .... not worthy ....
Often felt like a fake ..... try harder... that will do it ..... yep .... that will do it....
Hypermasculinity ....... that helps for a while ..... and actually I very much enjoyed being a husband and a father.....
But there was always something deep down that never quite fit ..... work around it .... cover it .. smother it....
Decisions ..... I could and did make them .... still do ..... that is my nature regardless of gender.
Now how that expresses itself changes in texture with the change in gender but still remains as strong.
Living up to what was expected ...... always a very real and present fear ..... so I worked very hard at that.
Still do ..... oh my ... life is complex...... I still live the blended life for their sake ..... still trying to live up to what is expected ...

 

[Pinga]

Rita, this thread has been wonderful, and informative, and challenging, and you have been extremely gracious. (as you generally are, i'm sure even you have bad days)

In a typical ask-me-anything, there is a time limit, then the thread closes.
Do you have a preference in this area?
It is in part, recognition of the effort requierd by the guest speaker.

 

[RitaTG]

Hello Pinga .....
Lets leave it open for one more week and see if any further questions come in.....
If there is nothing new then we shall move on ......
Other questions could then be asked and answered elsewhere as they come up.
Thank you so much for this opportunity to share and from the heart I thank each and every person that trusted me enough to dare to ask the difficult and sensitive questions.....
Hugs to all.....
Rita

 

[Jaebius]

Rita, are there any questions that you would like us to have asked but we haven't? If so, please share with us your answers to any of those questions that you'd care to address.

 

[Delightful Life]

Rita,

only a week left?!

Hoosht!

Here's s'more questions for yas:

1. You mention gender identity. Do you view this as some kind of internal unchangeable identity (eg a soul)? Is it universal (as opposed to personal/unique)?

2. Do you view 'man' and 'woman' as gender identities (including the universality)?

3. I see running through your good information thread here that you are having some kind of problem; what kind of problem(s) does your experience with your being transgender have?

4. What do you think causes these problems and how have they been and how do you think they can be allayed?

5. You have probably already gone through this (i know i have); how do you know that you don't have a kind of dis ease or illness or malady, mental or psychological or physical or chemical or even spiritual?

Again, ty for the agape info session and for willing to put your heart out here...that takes a lot of chutzpah

ps, you mention upthread

The language is inadequate and does not work.
By the way ...... many trans persons struggle with the notions of how to label themselves or even who they are expected to be attracted to once they present as a gender other than their plumbing would suggest.
Short answer ..... sexual orientation and gender identity are in no way related concepts....
The language to describe the complexity does not yet exist.

I've got one suggestion: you're Rita

"Hey, is that person there a man or a woman?"
Answer: "They're Rita"

Just a suggestion.

 

[RitaTG]

Thank you InannaWhimsey ...... I will try and address your questions....
1. You mention gender identity. Do you view this as some kind of internal unchangeable identity (eg a soul)? Is it universal (as opposed to personal/unique)?
It is internal, personal/unique, and so deep that considering it an attribute of the "soul" is a very good descriptor.
Whether or not it is unchangeable ..... I am no expert ... but for me it is unchangeable ...

2. Do you view 'man' and 'woman' as gender identities (including the universality)?
I view "man" "woman" as descriptors for either end of the gender spectrum..... sort of like how red is yellow or how blue is yellow..

3. I see running through your good information thread here that you are having some kind of problem; what kind of problem(s) does your experience with your being transgender have?
Problems!!!! ... LOL ..... oh my ..... in a sense .... walk in my shoes for just one week....
Most of it I can handle rather easily ... but then again I am not typical .... I have earned my place and work to keep it.
It is all the ones that have not yet developed the strength to endure out there ..... I am very public for their sake as well as mine.
My biggest problem ... family ..... and I just went through a weekend of hell with a family issue (not about me) where I was forced to present and expected to handle it as a man ...... Now that is incredibly hard ....
Family issues ... both direct and indirect ..... lots I could tell there ......

4. What do you think causes these problems and how have they been and how do you think they can be allayed?
What causes the problems ..... hmmmmmm ...... I am sure that reading this thread that it becomes obvious that society has been so very wrong on their understanding of this issue. That needs to be addressed with education and discussion. Reluctance because of discomfort and even more importantly .... religious teachings. That shuts the door to listen. Willful ignorance ..... refusal to learn or listen .... a huge barrier.
Ok .... that is the doom and gloom ..... what can be done about it?
What I am doing now ..... this is the key ..... get to know me (or someone like me) personally....
I started just wanting to make the tiniest change ..... and I started something enormous here in the north.
I found out I do have the power to change the world .... just a bit ..... but it is change!
One hug at a time

5. You have probably already gone through this (i know i have); how do you know that you don't have a kind of dis ease or illness or malady, mental or psychological or physical or chemical or even spiritual?
There is the dreary never ending question of doubt that I hear over and over and over.......
How others want this to be a disease ... or that the very least .... something wrong with me....
Ok ... medically .... is it something physically wrong or is there a physical cause ..... tons of worldwide research ...... answer ... NO....
Is this a mental condition ..... hmmmm....
Going way back ....when I was young ... the first high school trip to the university in our city.... I went to the library to look this up ....... this was labelled as a sexual deviancy .... just what a young person struggling wants to hear... Years go by ..... this gets upgraded from deviancy to disorder .... yep ..... something wrong in the head .... Years more research ... where are we now ..... this is now labelled as "gender dysphoria" ...... finally ..... the external being at conflict with the internal with the internal being what is right. A huge part of that dysphoria is the pressure from society being wrong.
I have spent considerable time and effort working with a professional psychological therapist to get my head on right. Double, triple, quadruple check everything to make sure that what is going on is not a symptom of some deeper hidden issue. I can confidently say ..... I am not crazy ..... this is not something wrong with me mentally...
Spiritual ..... now there is perhaps the biggest and most hurtful challenge directed at me (us)....
This is "sin" ..... a "choice" ...... I have been "deceived by the enemy" ...... This position is held most strongly by the most willfully ignorant. There is no amount of research or medical/psychological information that will be considered by such. They tend to be those in the "bible only" sort of camp. Why should this matter to me? .... just leave and move on? ...... were it that easy.... and consider there are young ones that are like me that have to sit under such teaching and condemnation and cannot leave or find relief. They are the ones that will grow up trying so hard to fight a battle that should never be.....
43% .... the suicide rate ...... and it need not be. Willful ignorance ...... I don't know how to help them.....
.....................
By the way .... I do agree with you on this ..... my label is "Rita" ..... quite personal .... quite sufficent....
Thank you for the questions InannaWhimsey.....
Hugs
Rita

 

[RitaTG]

Rita, are there any questions that you would like us to have asked but we haven't? If so, please share with us your answers to any of those questions that you'd care to address.

The question would be this Pr. Jae ...... (and I am not saying this is your position).....
How does it FEEL to be accused of having CHOSEN this as a LIFESTYLE ?......
Dare I answer?? .... what I would say would be very uncomfortable and challenging to hear....
Sincerely
Rita

 

[Jaebius]

The question would be this Pr. Jae ...... (and I am not saying this is your position).....
How does it FEEL to be accused of having CHOSEN this as a LIFESTYLE ?......
Dare I answer?? .... what I would say would be very uncomfortable and challenging to hear....
Sincerely
Rita

Sure, go ahead, lay it on us.

Also, here's another question... Are there any specific ways you'd like the Church to do ministry together with you?

 

[RitaTG]

Sure, go ahead, lay it on us.

Also, here's another question... Are there any specific ways you'd like the Church to do ministry together with you?

Thank you Pr. Jae ......
I will take some time to put together a considered reply......
I need this one to be as right in tone as I can.....
A busy day .... it may take a while so I thank you and everyone else for your patience.
Regards
Rita

 

[revsdd]

Hi Rita,

Your reply to InannaWhimsey intrigued me. One point in particular. You said that you had been involved with a major family problem this past weekend, and then you said:

I was forced to present and expected to handle it as a man

We've talked about gender roles and gender expectations in this thread. I'm curious as to what you mean when you say that you were "expected to handle it as a man" and how that might have conflicted with how you wanted to handle it.

I realize that this was a family issue and so very personal and not something that you'd want to share details about. I'm just asking more in generalities. What's the difference in your mind between handling something as a man and handling something, I presume, as a woman?

And, given the personal nature of the incident and the involvement of family, if you prefer not to answer that's understandable.

 

[crazyheart]

Rita, I was wondering in the same post about family issues what you meant by "I was forced"

How can this possibly happen ? force?

 

[RitaTG]

Ok ... seems I have made quite a statement .....
I shall attempt to explain revsdd and crazyheart .....
Opening my life even more ..... hopefully it helps someone along the way....
Here is the situation......
All my family knows about me including siblings and my mother (almost 87) .... however .... they are not at a place yet where they can deal with me as "me". My mother especially .... really really tried .... just cannot do it ..... for her .... I am her son and she does not want to see "Rita" at all..... and she is struggling with Alzheimer's....
This Saturday we moved her out of her home of over 50 years to live with my sister .....
It was my job for the day to take her out and be with her while the move took place (unknown to her as this is the only way we could do so without her having a devastating meltdown ... and yes we had told her for months this was coming)
I did so .... and when all was done .... took her to her new home at my sister's place.
She was heartbroken and as typical for the disease .... very much acted out and was mean and aggressive.
I was particularly singled out because I was with her all day knowing what was going on and said nothing.
For everyone's sake ...... I have to be "the man" .... the son ... the brother ..... the rock....
Say and do the "right" things ..... as expected ..... this is about mom ..... not me.....
No complaints ...... I love my mother more than words can express and I love my siblings deeply ... I will do this....
But .....
I am "forced" to do this as a "man" ..... not me ... because that is what they need.... this is not what I want to do...
The situation "forced" me.......
Now what about the differences between handling things as a man vs handling them as a woman.....
Here I feel that I can offer observations and insight to both sides (men/women)
I lived the male life for most of my life and my brain ran on testosterone.....
Now .... more and more ... as I mature as a woman .... and am now running my brain on estrogen I can tell you there are so very many differences.....
It is like seeing a painting where the colours take on different intensity and vibrancy according to whether "male" eyes are used or "female" eyes.... The picture (situation) is the same ....
As a male ..... I was what I feel was typical .... the problem solver .... the fixer ..... the rock of emotion when needed....
As a woman that takes on whole new texture, nuance, and expression ... and that is my nature and in this instance I have to hide that and try my best to be the man.....
So very very hard ....... I am devastated inside because of what is happening to my mom and I have to hide my expression .... I have to try and express that in a man way instead of what my heart is crying out to do....
I have to express my hurt man style .... this is not the time to express my hurt woman style.....
I did my best ..... the situation forced me to do it this way ...... incredibly hard.....
And yes ..... I would do it again in a heartbeat.....
This I can tell you ..... from living as a man and also living as a woman ..... in a very deep way ...... the differences are huge and real .....
Sincerely
Rita