Transgenderism ..... ask your questions!

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
Waterfall said:
I hear you, many storms I've fervently searched where scripture says it's okay to "dog paddle" rather than walk on it.... I usually end up asking for a life preserver.
More hugs to add to Rita's.
Click to expand...

Maybe you three should just go get a room. :rolleyes:
 
I came across this today, about Caitlyn Jenner. Written, ironically, by yet another Rita. I thought she made some good points, actually - about a famous man transitioning, relatively easily, into being a famous woman - had Jenner not been a famous man, the transition would've been much harder. Also, saying that the break-up of Jenner's marriage, Jenner claims, was 20% about gender, and 80% about the way she was treated. Maybe she wasn't treated well by Mrs. Kardashian/Jenner I don't know, but to blame the majority of the relationship breakdown on her...a wife married to someone who wants to identify as a woman, but has built fame and fortune with his (now her) wife and saying that she is now a woman. That must've been tough on her, and not fair or honest if the spouse suspects something isn't right with the marriage but doesn't know the extent because it's been kept from her. It's dishonest. I'm not buying those numbers. Somebody, I suspect Caitlyn, is not looking at things honestly just yet. I would be shattered, if I were in Jenner's wife's shoes. That said, if trans people were better accepted there would likely be fewer circumstances were one finds themselves in a relationship with someone who is not the gender the spouse thinks he or she married.

However, I disagree with the author's sentiment in much of the article about being a woman meaning being successful - she made a point of mentioning all the smart successful career women she knows. That's not a prerequisite for being a woman either. A woman can be not so smart or successful, pretty or not pretty, and still be a woman.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...-jenner-thought-women-were&pubdate=2015-06-09
 
Last edited:
Kimmio said:
You mean, physically alter the brain to fit the body instead of the body to fit the brain?
Click to expand...
of course, if transsexuals are that way because of a soul...that'd probably be much more difficult to change? maybe better results would come from a soul doctor? priestess/psychiatrist/shaman?
 
Are souls like spirits ... gonad free? But if the soul is and empty thing ... would it simulate ... o never mind ...

However such thought does point to why psyche was considered ephemeral, something needing Bung and thus the parti girl as parti-sans (without extremes?). Pas on gonads and thus angels ... the male barflies being hung like roosters in the butchers temple (if he was kosher)! Serious dark humour ... bloody awful to the taret of the satyr ... the advocate of slowing down enough for the thinking portion to get off the wagon, chariot? That'd be Nathan ... doing the white wash ... so as to appear feint to the other darker Semites ... foundational Ba salts of the earth as (im) provisional rules to account for those not thinking yet? Not completely transposed ... or turned about in mental illness called mental rapture?

What if spirits are white and souls are black ... would this accommodate the dark Ness of the pede-eLin ... Ezekiel's weal-th as a bi-cycle, communion ally processed? Would that raise word as witch, good, wile hunting?

Imagine that churning through the cosmos ... turning up no end of star dust ... light filth? Filthy especially it gives indication of what gods do in the dark to make the essence howl ... Ώ ed ... an ed'M being a large churning host that oligarchs hate to encounter ... sort of like a jungle of people! In total they know better than the entire intellect of one tyrant!

Thus when asked to account most authorities say: "Yer Honour I didn't know, the emotions over come me" ... caused an impulse of klept-0-mania ... or clipped mania towards thin king as a beam of light in the eye ... these sparks can be a sign ... of someone that their sense of god is speaking to, or their off their rock Eire ! This inhibits logos and rationale to a mire point being off their pede stall ... an anima being stalked by Medea to a'Muse her alien head?
 
Luce NDs said:
Is Grace a given
Click to expand...


Good question. I've been pondering it since you asked.

I'm still torn at what the answer ought to be as ideal and what appears to be in practice.

As an ideal Grace must be a possibility so it cannot be a given. As soon as Grace becomes a given, there is no possibility of another outcome I believe we slip into license. In that realm nothing is prohibited and all is permitted. I don't think such a realm offers anything healthy to humanity.

As a practice, again Grace must be a possibility, maybe even a possibility of high probability. As soon as it becomes a given it is cheapened to the point of having no efficacy.

How does that play out in congregational life?

Every congregation of the UCCAN will swear by its natural goodness, openness and willingness to embrace all others. Every congregation of the UCCAN is being dishonest as they do so. They are dishonest because they are denying the existence of very natural boundaries they as individuals hold and that they as a collection of individuals have come to share.

Those boundaries may or may not ever be tested because of their context and because those boundaries never being tested the congregation deludes itself into thinking those boundaries do not exist.

If grace is to be seen being modeled in Christian community it needs to be seen where boundaries are challenged and that typically is not where congregations are at their best or even their most visible.

I expect it is the individual Christians comprising a congregation who provide the first window of opportunity to see how grace-filled and gracious any community of faith would be.

How much grace exists within the observer would also impact impressions.
 
revjohn said:

Good question. I've been pondering it since you asked.

I'm still torn at what the answer ought to be as ideal and what appears to be in practice.

As an ideal Grace must be a possibility so it cannot be a given. As soon as Grace becomes a given, there is no possibility of another outcome I believe we slip into license. In that realm nothing is prohibited and all is permitted. I don't think such a realm offers anything healthy to humanity.

As a practice, again Grace must be a possibility, maybe even a possibility of high probability. As soon as it becomes a given it is cheapened to the point of having no efficacy.

How does that play out in congregational life?

Every congregation of the UCCAN will swear by its natural goodness, openness and willingness to embrace all others. Every congregation of the UCCAN is being dishonest as they do so. They are dishonest because they are denying the existence of very natural boundaries they as individuals hold and that they as a collection of individuals have come to share.

Those boundaries may or may not ever be tested because of their context and because those boundaries never being tested the congregation deludes itself into thinking those boundaries do not exist.

If grace is to be seen being modeled in Christian community it needs to be seen where boundaries are challenged and that typically is not where congregations are at their best or even their most visible.

I expect it is the individual Christians comprising a congregation who provide the first window of opportunity to see how grace-filled and gracious any community of faith would be.

How much grace exists within the observer would also impact impressions.
Click to expand...
(y) LIKE
 
@ RevJohn,
Did you know that Adonis in one old tradition of word ... was "a given"? ... something to do with open minds that give and collect freely ... often thoughts ... sometimes calm passions ... one coming while the other is going ... like light .. red when receding and blue when coming onto the broad base ... sort of like the big foot of the mother of God ... huge soul casting a shadow as Black Foot tradition when encountered in the mountains ... you were scroo 'd ...

One should know a great variety of words and understand them .. as expressed in the vast understanding of a God that can speak many tongues ... a real enigma to those stuck on one tongue alone ... some people believe English the word of God because it is such a huge hybrid --- by the author of Finnegan's Wake ... death of the kitty that is now a wild cat over what was previously missed in spiritual intercourse ... with much discursive nature ... allows variety that is almost as good as a change ...

A lady on CBC the other day said she believed all people should learn an aboriginal tongue ... it does have certain unseen advantages ... in lew of the law common people cannot be cynical about authority ... it adds to the ability to satirize in an unseen nature ... and thus quite subtle!
 
revsdd said:
For myself, I'm in transition at the moment. Here's the situation.

Transgender issues specifically have not been on the agenda at either congregation, where I am or where I'm going as far as I know. From what I've seen on here I believe that RitaTG would bring a worthwhile voice to a conversation on the issue if such a discussion were to be held. Neither congregation to the best of my knowledge is looking for such a conversation, because transgender issues have been much less visible than, for example, same sex marriage. On that issue ...

My current church has a policy of not performing same sex marriages. That policy was set about 12 years ago, before my arrival here. It was the result from what I've heard of a very long and mostly respectful debate which ended with a statement something along the lines of "after careful consideration and prayer our belief is that God intended for marriage to be between a man and a woman." Even having the debate meant that a few people left the congregation from what I understand. In the almost 11 years that I've been here the congregation has changed a great deal. Some have left, some have died, others have come in. I think the result of a vote now would be to offer same sex marriage, but it would be a serious debate and there would be some strong opposition and a likely split.

The congregation I'm going to had a long time of discernment on the issue of same sex marriage and on becoming an affirming congregation. In the end the congregation voted to offer same sex marriage without condition, but did not have the required three quarters majority to become affirming. (From what I've heard the vote was something like 63% in favour of becoming affirming.) I tend to be in agreement with the congregation on both issues (ie, to offer same sex marriage, but to decline becoming a member of Affirm United.)
Click to expand...
revsdd, my sincere apologies to you. I intended to reply to your response earlier than today.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

As at the congregations you are leaving, transgendered issues have simply not been on our agenda.

Our focus, as is the case with most churches I imagine, is firstly on God, and secondly on the people we do life with - both within the church and the context it serves. We have yet to come into contact with anyone who self-identified themselves to us as being transgendered.

We also have yet to come into contact with anyone, in our church or neighborhood, who has shared with us a desire to discuss transgenderism with us.

As to same-sex marriages, we don't perform them at my church, and there has never been a debate as to whether to alliw them to take place within our building or not.

Again revsdd, thank you for your reflections.
 
I believe that transgender concerns are being covered by my congregation under the broad umbrella of becoming affirming to all marginalized people, in particular those who identify as LGBTQAA (did I leave anybody out). One person who I met as male shared to a Rainbow group in the church that he had been born in a female body.
 
Luce NDs said:
@ RevJohn,
Did you know that Adonis in one old tradition of word ... was "a given"? ... something to do with open minds that give and collect freely
Click to expand...


Adonis? From the earth I think he was. Throw him down and make him stronger, lift him up and he becomes noticeably weaker.
 
"Adonis? From the earth I think he was. Throw him down and make him stronger, lift him up and he becomes noticeably weaker."

Like the fertile end of the totem ... an ancient icon ... like myths ... carved in a tree of logic? In exposure to great emotional busts (rants) do good senses regress?

I got those out of myths ... but as someone who relies on such imaginary things I could be wrong ... it was just a thought like Medea in contemplation about dropping children like eggs ... an angel habit or other flighty critters? Falling through an emotional relationship they loose a sense of knowledge ... gives hope that in passingover w'll regain some sense ...

Wasn't a'dam from the earth like a myth on a clay Jaerd character? Jaerd occurs some 250 times in the bible as a medium for god sketches ... these like mortals can be broken ... and shards dug up later like history ... like when you spontaneously remember wise old things ... sometimes not! Then the Romans were like Bulls in China shops ... powerful and not much sense of being genteel, or gentile! The people of Messopotamia put their images of gods in tiles ... thus jinn tiles ... spirits all laid out on a wall!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top