How was church today?

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BetteTheRed said:
More like a Quaker meeting?
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Covid has brought some challenges to our meeting, as we had been meeting in people’s houses and there were only few that would have provided the 6 ft distancing requirement. At the same time, 1-2 members had the feeling they needed to do more outreach and meeting in people’s houses is a hinderance to newcomers coming to the first meeting, so the meeting has been meeting in an Anglican church Sundays at 3 pm and having zoom connection at the same time. Sunday at 3 is a terrible time for me and I have been there only once in person. It also seems to be a bad time for several others, but the agreement was a trial phase until May. So we will see where that goes.
Not exactly sure what Jim is asking with evolution here.
Since everybody showing up for a business meeting has a voice and decisions are made in agreement or not at all, some changes are a long time coming. Some decisions are never made, because just one person insisting to disagree can hold things up indefinitely.
I have found that in Quaker meetings, the tendency can be the same as in other religious groups, like conflict not addressed, some people are more favorites than others so we don’t say anything to not hurt feelings or scare that person away. However, because everyone has an equal voice- ignoring it is not as easy as in a congregation where everything goes through a minister or a council.
Quakers per se also have build-in inquiries that come from the national office and asks the group to reflect on certain themes- like how does the meeting deal with conflict, how could that be improved.
 
Thank for your reply. Evolution includes things like changing where and when you meet and using Zoom. It also includes waiting for someone who blocks change to leave, die, or change. A sense for need for that change, if it is appropriate, will grow until it will happen or the organization collapses.
 
jimkenney12 said:
Thank for your reply. Evolution includes things like changing where and when you meet and using Zoom. It also includes waiting for someone who blocks change to leave, die, or change. A sense for need for that change, if it is appropriate, will grow until it will happen or the organization collapses.
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Jim,

I wonder if this would make a good standalone thread? Thoughts?
 
My son's church is going through some problems right now, and they were told by their minister not to discuss the issues in any public forum because it would affect the oneness that God intends. I just participated in a Bible study of Acts where we talked about past and current dissension, how we deal with it and how we can grow from it. Unfortunately, in this day and age of declining numbers and income, churches are nervous about losing members and donors, so maybe that makes for a desire to see 'all is at peace' instead of dealing with genuine problems and concerns.

Even though I am a retired LLWL, I still do occasional church services, and I am slated to be at this church at the end of May. I wonder what I will be facing....
 
Nancy said:
My son's church is going through some problems right now, and they were told by their minister not to discuss the issues in any public forum because it would affect the oneness that God intends.
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In the minister's defense, they may be thinking in terms of getting people to actually discuss the issues within the church and not going behind the backs of those in the church trying to resolve the issue by griping publicly on social media. People bitching in a public forum while not participating in the process of fixing what they are bitching about are part of the problem, not part of the solution and it happens a lot in the social media world in my experience.
 
Nancy said:
My son's church is going through some problems right now, and they were told by their minister not to discuss the issues in any public forum because it would affect the oneness that God intends. I just participated in a Bible study of Acts where we talked about past and current dissension, how we deal with it and how we can grow from it. Unfortunately, in this day and age of declining numbers and income, churches are nervous about losing members and donors, so maybe that makes for a desire to see 'all is at peace' instead of dealing with genuine problems and concerns.

Even though I am a retired LLWL, I still do occasional church services, and I am slated to be at this church at the end of May. I wonder what I will be facing....
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It is not appropriate to bring conflicts into a public forum unless there is significant harm or risk of harm to one or more people if it is not brought into the open. However, seeking oneness is not a great reason. What I believe is usually needed is to provide space for each person to clearly state their reasons for the position they are taking. If the grounds for conflict are not openly presented and discussed, the result will be done form of tyrany. The last Sunday in May is Trinity Sunday. Maybe a service focused on unity in diversity with, maybe, a contrast with unity in conformity might be a helpful approach. I would pick examples from politics, business development zones, and/or other areas of society where unity in diversity is good for all participants do long as there is unity in purpose: using different points of view to design good social policy, helping every business be profitable, etc. The Trinity provides different ways to impact human society, all to the same end.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I would like churches to be more organic and less engineered.
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Full agreement on this. As a follower of the way opened by Jesus, guided by his Holy Spirit, I have been creatively resistant to our institutional norms and standards. An example is my experience with Grace United in East Vancouver. When I arrived it was a dying Church. Now it is risen from that death and present as a dynamic centre in the neighbourhood. This not related to liturgical worship. Rather, it is deeply rooted in service to lost and lonely persons.

There are many more stories I can tell. Some are stories of creative action for change involving strong resistance by persons standing on institutional ground. This reminds me of Jesus saying that those following in his way would be resisted by religious and political powers.

As Bob Dylan said some years ago: “The times they are a’changin’”.
 
jimkenney12 said:
It is not appropriate to bring conflicts into a public forum unless there is significant harm or risk of harm to one or more people if it is not brought into the open. However, seeking oneness is not a great reason. What I believe is usually needed is to provide space for each person to clearly state their reasons for the position they are taking. If the grounds for conflict are not openly presented and discussed, the result will be done form of tyrany. The last Sunday in May is Trinity Sunday. Maybe a service focused on unity in diversity with, maybe, a contrast with unity in conformity might be a helpful approach. I would pick examples from politics, business development zones, and/or other areas of society where unity in diversity is good for all participants do long as there is unity in purpose: using different points of view to design good social policy, helping every business be profitable, etc. The Trinity provides different ways to impact human society, all to the same end.
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Very wise. The issue is a church issue, something that is being voted on at a higher level, but is a source of contention with the members of the congregation. The minister has suggested that he may need to do some teaching based on the word of God in order to point people towards the correct way of thinking. I really like this minister; but I do not agree with his approach in this case.
 
That said, we had a fine community gathering on Saturday morning, to record a service for our members. The gathering begins with cookies, beverage and conversation. All wearing masks and keeping safe distance.

Then to the sanctuary. First our “Called 2 B” band practiced the chosen songs. Then our sound guy checks the system and gives us the ok. Next we began our informal worship. Following the service we converse a bit more. Then home for lunch.
 
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Camping Sunday. Not as fun as being there. But our wizard-y tech genius (he who makes planes fly across the ceiling for VBC play props) added to his genius "electric firepit" with a little button that when pushed (theoretically invisibly by the Rev) puffed smoke, adding to the effect.
 
I watched our service at home this morning. The chair of the council used the projection and sound system at church for up to 9 people to watch the service there. I used Psalm 23 and the reading from John for the service, briefly commented on several issues within those texts, but emphasized the leadership qualities of the Good Shepherd.
 
Not a nice day in Calgary so did not go out except for a short walk. Attended the online services from both Hillhurst and Knox. Both were engaging, but really made me wish the Covid nightmare would end soon as I really need to sit in the pews and enjoy the ambiance of being there. Maybe by mid-Summer if we get lucky.
 
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