How was church today?

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Nancy said:
Sounds like a good service...wondering what noises you made? Sorry to hear about your minister though. Tough to be front and center leading a service when your mind/heart might be lingering elsewhere.
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I did some "murmuring", some "talking", some "rubbing hands and snapping fingers" and some "Amazing"s...

Lot of snow squalls here yesterday, quite an accumulation, and while the streets have been plowed now, many of the sidewalks have not. Makes dog walking interesting. And I need to finish the driveway. *Bette pours herself another coffee from the bottomless fresh pot on the woodstove.*
 
I skipped the morning service on Sunday. Went to the 5pm "family service" because my team was ushering. Kept an eye on the clock thru the afternoon, which I spent in the kitchen, not wanting to be late. Greeted lots of folks, new and others I hadn't seen in a long time, but realized my team caption didn't seem to be on duty, which was puzzling since he'd reminded me the week before. Turned out there had been a switch - I must have missed that memo. Anyway, relieved of my duties, I went along to sit beside Erica Peck who used to be in our youth group & is now a professional music theatre performer - I LOVE to listen to her voice! So that was wonderful.

The "family" aspect of the service was pretty bad tho - we have a minister who really ought not to do anything with kids - seems to have no real idea how to relate to them. Sitting on the chancel steps with them, but speaking to the adults in the church is disrespectful of the kids in my view. Really, among other things, - launching into a questionably relevant story about Marshall McLuhan?? How is that kid friendly. Sorry to sound so negative ... but I just can't imagine what's happening in that guy's head that somehow makes this "family" stuff. Oh well ... there is a change coming ... six months to go ...
 
Carolla said:
I skipped the morning service on Sunday. Went to the 5pm "family service" because my team was ushering. Kept an eye on the clock thru the afternoon, which I spent in the kitchen, not wanting to be late. Greeted lots of folks, new and others I hadn't seen in a long time, but realized my team caption didn't seem to be on duty, which was puzzling since he'd reminded me the week before. Turned out there had been a switch - I must have missed that memo. Anyway, relieved of my duties, I went along to sit beside Erica Peck who used to be in our youth group & is now a professional music theatre performer - I LOVE to listen to her voice! So that was wonderful.

The "family" aspect of the service was pretty bad tho - we have a minister who really ought not to do anything with kids - seems to have no real idea how to relate to them. Sitting on the chancel steps with them, but speaking to the adults in the church is disrespectful of the kids in my view. Really, among other things, - launching into a questionably relevant story about Marshall McLuhan?? How is that kid friendly. Sorry to sound so negative ... but I just can't imagine what's happening in that guy's head that somehow makes this "family" stuff. Oh well ... there is a change coming ... six months to go ...
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What learning opportunities has your church given your minister to become better with kids?
 
Carolla said:
launching into a questionably relevant story about Marshall McLuhan?? How is that kid friendly.
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Well . . . .At one point Marshall McLuhan was big with the kids, at the university. So maybe the problem is how dated is this minister rather than how kid friendly is this minister.

But I empathize with this criticism.

Congregations want to see the kids on display so you have to be careful and slightly subversive.

I call the kids to the front because that is where the congregation wants them displayed. And then, because the UCCAN of Canada prefers back pews to the front, I invite the kids to sit in the front pews. This accomplishes two things. It allows me to have the conversation directly with them and it allows them to remain part of the congregation.

The conversation then flows however it will. I have a sense of where it would like to go so I can facilitate conversation getting there, eventually, maybe. Each child gets to answer and each answer is respectfully received even possibly played with. None of the congregation gets to see the face of any child that faces me during this time. They may not even get to hear all of the questions or answers asked by the children who are not mic'ed. They get me and my responses.

Is everyone happy with that?

By no means.

Some people think Childrens' time is supposed to be a Christianized version of Aesop's fables and every conversation must impart knowledge of some moral point.

I don't think that way and since it is my time with the Children I always have the conversation I think is most relevant to the texts of the day. If the kids have something they think is more important at the time then I honour that because as far as our liturgy goes we are spending time with the Children not forcing them to spend more concentrated time with us.

So yes, sometimes you get the kid who thinks cleaning their room or helping with chores is nonsense or the kid who thinks you stop zombies by kicking them in the balls rather than clear conversations about honouring parents or celebrating the resurrection.

Clergy who think Children are for the entertainment of the congregation do nobody any favours.
 
Really like the idea of having the children seated in the front row. I have never seen Children's time done this way but it seems like a great idea.
 
revjohn said:

Well . . . .At one point Marshall McLuhan was big with the kids, at the university. So maybe the problem is how dated is this minister rather than how kid friendly is this minister.

But I empathize with this criticism.

Congregations want to see the kids on display so you have to be careful and slightly subversive.

I call the kids to the front because that is where the congregation wants them displayed. And then, because the UCCAN of Canada prefers back pews to the front, I invite the kids to sit in the front pews. This accomplishes two things. It allows me to have the conversation directly with them and it allows them to remain part of the congregation.

The conversation then flows however it will. I have a sense of where it would like to go so I can facilitate conversation getting there, eventually, maybe. Each child gets to answer and each answer is respectfully received even possibly played with. None of the congregation gets to see the face of any child that faces me during this time. They may not even get to hear all of the questions or answers asked by the children who are not mic'ed. They get me and my responses.

Is everyone happy with that?

By no means.

Some people think Childrens' time is supposed to be a Christianized version of Aesop's fables and every conversation must impart knowledge of some moral point.

I don't think that way and since it is my time with the Children I always have the conversation I think is most relevant to the texts of the day. If the kids have something they think is more important at the time then I honour that because as far as our liturgy goes we are spending time with the Children not forcing them to spend more concentrated time with us.

So yes, sometimes you get the kid who thinks cleaning their room or helping with chores is nonsense or the kid who thinks you stop zombies by kicking them in the balls rather than clear conversations about honouring parents or celebrating the resurrection.

Clergy who think Children are for the entertainment of the congregation do nobody any favours.
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They are moral points and thus the pain of mortal loss of knowledge? Converts to older ethics ...
 
I like the children's time usually, although it is sometimes difficult when I'm at a church where I don't know the kids. I introduce myself to them and try to talk directly to them but also do double duty by speaking to the congregation as well. Sometimes I even tell the children that I may repeat some of the things they say so the congregation can hear (if I have a headset on instead of a mike). But, I have to admit, it is difficult to prepare in advance because often there are no children, yet I'm expected to deliver a life parable anyway....meant for adults. I get a kick out of the surprise factor that the kids provide. Like the time I decided to tell some jokes or riddles, and then said to one particular firecracker: "I bet you like to tell jokes too." To which he replied, "Ya, but I tell good ones."
 
We have our children's time in the front row, as well. Most weeks, the Rev tells a story, and she's a good storyteller, from the perspective of a child. Kids like her. Sometimes they get up to other stuff; used up all of Advent on a "clue hunt for Jesus", who vanished from the nativity scene in the sanctuary. Had them running around the sanctuary a bit - in the sound booth, behind the choir, next to the drum set, etc.
 
Isn't it beta to exclude the kids earlier on ... thus giving a better chance of shutting down community affinities later to support isolationism?

This is differential -ism vs cumulating of intelligence ... conjugation of wiz dumb?
 
Luce NDs said:
Isn't it beta to exclude the kids earlier on ... thus giving a better chance of shutting down community affinities later to support isolationism?

This is differential -ism vs cumulating of intelligence ... conjugation of wiz dumb?
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Our new contract youth minister and I were talking about exactly that. The way that kids are always going, at least metaphorically, and almost always physically, "downstairs to junior church". We segregate our children and youth, and are then surprised when they link themselves to the youth minister/youth group leader and stay/leave with her/his movements. Need to link them more powerfully to the life of the congregation.
 
We don't have a children's time. At greeting time, about 1/3 of he way through the service, we dismiss the kids to go downstairs.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Our new contract youth minister and I were talking about exactly that. The way that kids are always going, at least metaphorically, and almost always physically, "downstairs to junior church". We segregate our children and youth, and are then surprised when they link themselves to the youth minister/youth group leader and stay/leave with her/his movements. Need to link them more powerfully to the life of the congregation.
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I've told this story before ...
A lady (now deceased) asked me why I teased her grandkids. My response was that so often adults acted so stern towards the kids they began to back away from all adults as I did as I grew up. I would rather the kids to feel comfortable with me ... especially when needing assistance for ... just about everything (God included)? Then there are the abusive examples of good citizens ...
 
There is one particular action , I hate to see the person who leads The time With Children do.

it is giving things out - like money. I saw a minister give out loonies for what, I can't recall.

Children at Children's time is an unknown quantity. 5 or 15.. Who knows? he gave out loonies and was one

short. A little girl of about four didn't get one. She was devastated and thought she had done

something wrong. The minister (a shithead any way you look at it) stood smiling like he had accomplished

something great. An 80 year old followed the kids out and gave the girl a looney. the 80 year old even

knew that this was a wrong action. See, it was all about him ,not the children.
 
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