Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Confucius say: mathematician with constipation work out with pencil
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unsafe
Well-Known Member
According to Jesus the Parable of the Sower is a most important one to get ----if we water it down by skipping the different soils cause we think it is not important or that maybe we could offend some then how can the Church really get the full meaning and learning of the an important Parable that is the understanding of how the Kingdom of God works -----God's Kingdom works on the farming system ----Sowing and Reaping according to scripture -----
It is important for the Church to know they have an enemy who will snatch the seed if it is not rooted and grounded in good soil -----Jesus gives the meaning of the Parable there is no excuse not to know the real meaning of this Parable -----and the meaning should be Preached as it is as should the Parable of the Sower itself in my view -----here lies the problem ---we preach what we want and leave out the rest ----I wonder if that is what God really wants from those who have been called to Preach His word -----
Mark 4:13-20 (HCSB)
The Parable of the Sower Explained
13 He said to them: “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any of the parables?
Mark 4:26 (HCSB)
The Parable of the Growing Seed
26 “The kingdom of God is like this,” He said. “A man scatters seed on the ground;
It is important for the Church to know they have an enemy who will snatch the seed if it is not rooted and grounded in good soil -----Jesus gives the meaning of the Parable there is no excuse not to know the real meaning of this Parable -----and the meaning should be Preached as it is as should the Parable of the Sower itself in my view -----here lies the problem ---we preach what we want and leave out the rest ----I wonder if that is what God really wants from those who have been called to Preach His word -----
Mark 4:13-20 (HCSB)
The Parable of the Sower Explained
13 He said to them: “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any of the parables?
Mark 4:26 (HCSB)
The Parable of the Growing Seed
26 “The kingdom of God is like this,” He said. “A man scatters seed on the ground;
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Waterfall
When Ministers Preach the Word ---Faith comes to the church through the word ----
You or I or the Minister preaching does not know who in the pews will have the understanding of what is being preached ----God can open a heart and mind to understand what the message is -----it is important to Preach the word that was given by the Holy Spirit ---The Holy Spirit knows who will get the message ----but if we just say well the Holy Spirit laid on my heart to preach the Parable of the Sower but we make the decision to only preach what we think is important then we preach what we want not the full truth ------is that OK ---I personally don't think so -----but that is just me
When we preach it should be with Agape and direction from the Holy Spirit who will direct the right words with the right tone so that we preach the whole truth and we don't offend most -----there will always be the ones who will be offended not matter what ------ that is just the way this world works ---Jesus offended many and now is no different --there will always be those who will take offence -----but the ones who's hearts and minds are open by God to the message preached will get it ------Jesus preached to many and some got it ------
When Ministers Preach the Word ---Faith comes to the church through the word ----
You or I or the Minister preaching does not know who in the pews will have the understanding of what is being preached ----God can open a heart and mind to understand what the message is -----it is important to Preach the word that was given by the Holy Spirit ---The Holy Spirit knows who will get the message ----but if we just say well the Holy Spirit laid on my heart to preach the Parable of the Sower but we make the decision to only preach what we think is important then we preach what we want not the full truth ------is that OK ---I personally don't think so -----but that is just me
When we preach it should be with Agape and direction from the Holy Spirit who will direct the right words with the right tone so that we preach the whole truth and we don't offend most -----there will always be the ones who will be offended not matter what ------ that is just the way this world works ---Jesus offended many and now is no different --there will always be those who will take offence -----but the ones who's hearts and minds are open by God to the message preached will get it ------Jesus preached to many and some got it ------
So long as they're interpreted along gospel lines. To do any less is to misinterpret them.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Seeler ---your quote -----I think one of the great things about many of the parables of Jesus is that there are so many ways to understand them and interpret them.
While you could be right ------we need to use caution though if we are relying on our own authority -----context is important -----if you take the Text out of context your left with a con ----I would say though that the ones Jesus gives the meanings for are the right and only interpretation for that peculiar Parable -----unless of course we feel we are more qualified than He is to get the right meaning ------ Jesus give the meaning for the Parable of the Sower so there is no need for racking our brain to find a meaning .
God's word warns of wrong use and interpretation of scripture -----verse 16 below ---
Read chapter here -- Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3 - New King James Version
2 Peter 3New King James Version (NKJV)
God’s Promise Is Not Slack
Be Steadfast
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
When the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of God's word it isn't wrong for us and God gets the Glory for giving us the understanding ----this is what I personally believe ---
While you could be right ------we need to use caution though if we are relying on our own authority -----context is important -----if you take the Text out of context your left with a con ----I would say though that the ones Jesus gives the meanings for are the right and only interpretation for that peculiar Parable -----unless of course we feel we are more qualified than He is to get the right meaning ------ Jesus give the meaning for the Parable of the Sower so there is no need for racking our brain to find a meaning .
God's word warns of wrong use and interpretation of scripture -----verse 16 below ---
Read chapter here -- Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3 - New King James Version
2 Peter 3New King James Version (NKJV)
God’s Promise Is Not Slack
Be Steadfast
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
When the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of God's word it isn't wrong for us and God gets the Glory for giving us the understanding ----this is what I personally believe ---
crazyheart
Rest In Peace: tomorrow,tomorrow
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
I believe there is one correct interpretation of a parable. And one would do well to study it and attempt to get as close to that meaning as possible.
You are not wasting seed by casting it broadly. The seed is good news and it is in unlimited supply. It is the workers who are few. There is your bottleneck. But you cannot expect a perfect harvest. There is nothing wrong with the seed. It just needs find good purchase to grow.
You are not wasting seed by casting it broadly. The seed is good news and it is in unlimited supply. It is the workers who are few. There is your bottleneck. But you cannot expect a perfect harvest. There is nothing wrong with the seed. It just needs find good purchase to grow.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
crazyheart ---your quote ----are wo not to challenge what we read in the bible?
If you or Seeler or anyone else wants to challenge God's word you can go right ahead -----I certainly don't want to ----
chal·lenge
ˈCHalənj/
noun
There is only one scripture that says we are to test God on that I am aware of and that is to do with the Tithe in Malachi 3:10
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Jesus says we are not to challenge God -------
Matthew 4:7---A Conservative Version
Jesus said to him, Again it is written, Thou shall not challenge Lord thy God.
1 Corinthians 10:9 says this ---A Conservative Version
Nor should we challenge the Christ as some of them also challenged, and were destroyed by the serpents.
crazyheart -----God says His word which is the Bible is Truth -----can you challenge the truth ------I suppose you can if you want to ----
As far as I know we are to Trust ---Believe and Obey what God's word says
If you or Seeler or anyone else wants to challenge God's word you can go right ahead -----I certainly don't want to ----
chal·lenge
ˈCHalənj/
noun
- 1.
a call to take part in a contest or competition, especially a duel.
There is only one scripture that says we are to test God on that I am aware of and that is to do with the Tithe in Malachi 3:10
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Jesus says we are not to challenge God -------
Matthew 4:7---A Conservative Version
Jesus said to him, Again it is written, Thou shall not challenge Lord thy God.
1 Corinthians 10:9 says this ---A Conservative Version
Nor should we challenge the Christ as some of them also challenged, and were destroyed by the serpents.
crazyheart -----God says His word which is the Bible is Truth -----can you challenge the truth ------I suppose you can if you want to ----
As far as I know we are to Trust ---Believe and Obey what God's word says
I see the Sower as Wisdom and the seeds as the message of the Kingdom...the first soil is hearing, the second soil is understanding and the best soil causes us to respond to the message of God's kingdom and acting upon receiving it.
But what is the meaning of the numbers for seeds sown on good ground as bringing forth fruit, some thirty fold, some sixty and some a hundred? Jesus seems to use numbers alot in his parables.....for what purpose?
Also , I find it interesting that Mark 3:31-35 tells us that even Jesus' mother and brothers stood outside because they didn't understand.
But what is the meaning of the numbers for seeds sown on good ground as bringing forth fruit, some thirty fold, some sixty and some a hundred? Jesus seems to use numbers alot in his parables.....for what purpose?
Also , I find it interesting that Mark 3:31-35 tells us that even Jesus' mother and brothers stood outside because they didn't understand.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Don't know if this helps Waterfall to explain the 30--60--100 ---bearing good fruit
John 15 (GW)
Jesus, the True Vine
15 Then Jesus said, “I am the true vine, and my Father takes care of the vineyard. 2 He removes every one of my branches that doesn’t produce fruit. He also prunes every branch that does produce fruit to make it produce more fruit.
3 “You are already clean because of what I have told you. 4 Live in me, and I will live in you. A branch cannot produce any fruit by itself. It has to stay attached to the vine. In the same way, you cannot produce fruit unless you live in me.
5 “I am the vine. You are the branches. Those who live in me while I live in them will produce a lot of fruit. But you can’t produce anything without me.
8 You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples.
unsafe says my view
the 30--60 and 100 in the parable has to do with how much fruit we bear -----it is a heart issue ----the soil is the heart of the person who says they are a Christian -----so the 100 is where we should strive to be in my view ----the 30 and 60 are very good ---but we can if we work hard enough to mature in our Faith and allow the Vine ---Jesus -- to have full reign in our lives do better than 30 and 60 but only if His word is rooted and grounded in our heart ----it is all up to us ----Most Christians are the worst at bearing good fruit in my view --our outward actions to others show that very plainly -----and that is seen right here on WC2 don't have to go far ----
unsafe says --my view and posted from a web sight and posted the explanation of the sower
Will we ever get to 100 fold before we die ----not in our lifetime -----we don't have the stamina --nor the will ---not the time to have the word take root ---nor the trust in His word ---not the patience to keep practicing every day to keep the thorns and thistles away that choke our Faith ---nor the belief in an enemy who will do everything he can to keep us from bearing any good fruit ----we humans will cave in and quit most of us before we could even reach 5-10 fold in good fruit bearing ---we do good when all is well but then when things turn sour for us we slip back into the pit and allow the why me ---or self pity syndrome to take hold instead of calling on God's Grace to get over the hurdle ----
This is from ---Bible.org
25. Parable of the Soils (Luke 8:4-21)
The kind of Christian which pleases the heart of God is not one which makes a dramatic start and then dies out, nor one whose commitment to Christ is slowly choked out by worldly desires. The kind of Christian which pleases God is that one which thoughtfully hears the gospel, understands its implications, and then consistently grows and matures, and which bears fruit as a result.
Luke 8:11-15 (NKJV)
The Parable of the Sower Explained
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
unsafe says ----not just bear fruit any old way but do it with patience ---an added pressure ----Bible patience's takes much practices ----Bible patience is having patience that is stable and grounded all the time no matter what comes against us -----it is a consistence patience that is always the same and keeps us in inner peace --- Peace that surpasses all understanding ----
Verse 12 tells us that the soil in the Parable is a metaphor for our heart in the explanation ----and Notice ----bear fruit with patience.
John 15 (GW)
Jesus, the True Vine
15 Then Jesus said, “I am the true vine, and my Father takes care of the vineyard. 2 He removes every one of my branches that doesn’t produce fruit. He also prunes every branch that does produce fruit to make it produce more fruit.
3 “You are already clean because of what I have told you. 4 Live in me, and I will live in you. A branch cannot produce any fruit by itself. It has to stay attached to the vine. In the same way, you cannot produce fruit unless you live in me.
5 “I am the vine. You are the branches. Those who live in me while I live in them will produce a lot of fruit. But you can’t produce anything without me.
8 You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples.
unsafe says my view
the 30--60 and 100 in the parable has to do with how much fruit we bear -----it is a heart issue ----the soil is the heart of the person who says they are a Christian -----so the 100 is where we should strive to be in my view ----the 30 and 60 are very good ---but we can if we work hard enough to mature in our Faith and allow the Vine ---Jesus -- to have full reign in our lives do better than 30 and 60 but only if His word is rooted and grounded in our heart ----it is all up to us ----Most Christians are the worst at bearing good fruit in my view --our outward actions to others show that very plainly -----and that is seen right here on WC2 don't have to go far ----
unsafe says --my view and posted from a web sight and posted the explanation of the sower
Will we ever get to 100 fold before we die ----not in our lifetime -----we don't have the stamina --nor the will ---not the time to have the word take root ---nor the trust in His word ---not the patience to keep practicing every day to keep the thorns and thistles away that choke our Faith ---nor the belief in an enemy who will do everything he can to keep us from bearing any good fruit ----we humans will cave in and quit most of us before we could even reach 5-10 fold in good fruit bearing ---we do good when all is well but then when things turn sour for us we slip back into the pit and allow the why me ---or self pity syndrome to take hold instead of calling on God's Grace to get over the hurdle ----
This is from ---Bible.org
25. Parable of the Soils (Luke 8:4-21)
The kind of Christian which pleases the heart of God is not one which makes a dramatic start and then dies out, nor one whose commitment to Christ is slowly choked out by worldly desires. The kind of Christian which pleases God is that one which thoughtfully hears the gospel, understands its implications, and then consistently grows and matures, and which bears fruit as a result.
Luke 8:11-15 (NKJV)
The Parable of the Sower Explained
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
unsafe says ----not just bear fruit any old way but do it with patience ---an added pressure ----Bible patience's takes much practices ----Bible patience is having patience that is stable and grounded all the time no matter what comes against us -----it is a consistence patience that is always the same and keeps us in inner peace --- Peace that surpasses all understanding ----
Verse 12 tells us that the soil in the Parable is a metaphor for our heart in the explanation ----and Notice ----bear fruit with patience.
Thanks unsafe. I also looked up what the numbers mean according to the Hebrew Gematria formula. In the Gospel of Thomas the numbers are 30:60:120.
Scroll down to number 3 of the link:
The Letter Samekh
60 corresponds to the word Lamed:
The Ancient Hebrew Alphabet - Lamed
Scroll down to number 3 of the link:
The Letter Samekh
60 corresponds to the word Lamed:
The Ancient Hebrew Alphabet - Lamed
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Or you could use the synopitc version of 30:60:100
The Ties between Letters, Words, and Numbers | II. Before there Was Time. 10. When Letters and Words Add Up | A Guide to the Hidden Wisdom of Kabbalah | Books | Michael Laitman | Kabbalah Library - Bnei Baruch Kabbalah Education & Research Institute
Not quite sure if the Kabbalah version is the same as Gematria?
The Ties between Letters, Words, and Numbers | II. Before there Was Time. 10. When Letters and Words Add Up | A Guide to the Hidden Wisdom of Kabbalah | Books | Michael Laitman | Kabbalah Library - Bnei Baruch Kabbalah Education & Research Institute
Not quite sure if the Kabbalah version is the same as Gematria?
Not sure what it all means, so it's interesting. Just noticed Jesus tends to use numbers in some of His parables.Waterfall -
Thank You for sharing this-- very interesting reading
unsafe
Well-Known Member
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Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Many ways but finite ways including us
Thus no blue skinned humans or it is ok to jump back in my mother's womb or turning my 4th cheek...
I went to the Lutheran Church I mentioned I wanted to check out awhile ago - at last. It was fine. A liturgical sermon about the "wheat and the weeds" - sounds like it was a week out of step with the UCCan? It was "familiar". Maybe a tad more conservative, especially than, the church UCCan church I attended for awhile. But overall not a huge difference. A sermon about not pulling up the weeds because then you pull the wheat with it and because we're all a bit weedy too. One thing they do in this congregation is sing The Lord's Prayer to the tune of Cohen's Hallelujah. And they had a rock out gospel song at the end that even the seniors were swaying and clapping to without hesitation or awkwardness. Good singers in this place - so I sort of mouthed the words and sang under my breath because I'm not a good singer - but they had good harmony going on (which wasn't happening at my old congregation.
).
The communion, or Eucharist was slightly different. Bread, and choice of either drinking from a large common cup of wine or taking an individual thimble sized cup of either juice or wine. I chose the latter. I saw the pastor down a couple of big gulps at the end when he took his own turn. Lol! (Maybe I shouldn't have noticed). I guess the common cup isn't as popular and he didn't want to waste it.
It happened to be a day they were having a neighbourhood bbq - so that was a bonus. I met some nice people. One man who teaches a course on Critical Thinking to students from around the world. I asked if I could audit it, jokingly, and he actually said that likely would be okay. He said they discuss philosophy and social and political issues and since students come from vastly different backgrounds - how to build community/ society within a common framework where people who disagree get along peaceably. Yes. Ironic. I know. He said it's very hard for some students at the beginning given they do come from such different cultures but by the end everyone is like old friends.
Talked to a woman about community social justice projects and interfaith outreach.
They share the hall of their building with a non-denominational generally younger adult (but all ages) group. LGBT escaped Baptists, I got the impression many were. And a younger crowd. Hipsters. Their pastor has a philosophy degree and they have a philosophy/ theology Cafe on Sunday evenings starting in the fall.
I'm glad I went.
).The communion, or Eucharist was slightly different. Bread, and choice of either drinking from a large common cup of wine or taking an individual thimble sized cup of either juice or wine. I chose the latter. I saw the pastor down a couple of big gulps at the end when he took his own turn. Lol! (Maybe I shouldn't have noticed). I guess the common cup isn't as popular and he didn't want to waste it.
It happened to be a day they were having a neighbourhood bbq - so that was a bonus. I met some nice people. One man who teaches a course on Critical Thinking to students from around the world. I asked if I could audit it, jokingly, and he actually said that likely would be okay. He said they discuss philosophy and social and political issues and since students come from vastly different backgrounds - how to build community/ society within a common framework where people who disagree get along peaceably. Yes. Ironic. I know. He said it's very hard for some students at the beginning given they do come from such different cultures but by the end everyone is like old friends.
Talked to a woman about community social justice projects and interfaith outreach.
They share the hall of their building with a non-denominational generally younger adult (but all ages) group. LGBT escaped Baptists, I got the impression many were. And a younger crowd. Hipsters. Their pastor has a philosophy degree and they have a philosophy/ theology Cafe on Sunday evenings starting in the fall.
I'm glad I went.
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