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@Seeler - was there an Elder leading the Blanket Exercise and involved with its editing? We recently did it at conference - took perhaps 90 min or so for the exercise, then at least another hour or more for the debriefing, during which every single participant spoke. It was led by a local woman Elder; assisted by a minister from the nearby reserve.

When introducing the debriefing, the Elder spoke words that to me were very powerful. The gist of it - if anybody is crying, you will let them cry. You will NOT touch them. This is our custom. People need to feel their pain - it is important. If they need a tissue - the box is here - they can get up & get a tissue themselves - you will not give it to them - it is important for a person to know they are not helpless, even in times of pain and sorrow each must look after yourself. She also commented at the closing, that we must understand that the hurts of the past are the past - they are not our pain to carry - to know about, yes - but not to carry.
 
BetteTheRed said:
It's my experience that indigenous people often feel rushed by Western culture, and it seems to make many of them feel quite disrespected, which I can sympathize with.
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This came into play at GC 42 at one point in discussion. The manner of speaking for some First People is much slower than we are accustomed to, and may be less direct - more of a story being told, as is their tradition. At the microphone, there was a necessary time limit adhered to most of the time. As one Indigenous person was speaking (which they did not often do), time stretched onward & the clock watchers became restless. Someone finally popped up with a 'point of order' comment re exceeding the time limit, which Gary Patterson dealt with in such a firm but graceful manner & the speaker continued at the microphone until his story was complete. It was a moment for sure.
 
Hi,

Another little memory. We had a Blackfoot person studying with us in seminary. Our Old Testament professor was introducing the notion of oral culture. He asked the student if he would say something about this from an indigenous perspective. The student asked if the professor would prefer the short or the long version. Aware of limited class time, the professor requested the short version. The student replied with a smile, "That should only take a couple of weeks."

Another memory of the same fellow. It was our year end party. All the students were well into their cups and dancing with little inhibition. Looking across the room I saw the Blackfoot student. He has a smile on his lips and a twinkle in his eye. I crossed the room and asked concerning the source of his amusement. He waved his hand to indicate the drunken dancing students. Quietly he spoke in my ear, "And people call us savages." No trace of resentment or bitterness. A hard fact turned to humour in the heart of a gentle elder.

George
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,

Another little memory. We had a Blackfoot person studying with us in seminary. Our Old Testament professor was introducing the notion of oral culture. He asked the student if he would say something about this from an indigenous perspective. The student asked if the professor would prefer the short or the long version. Aware of limited class time, the professor requested the short version. The student replied with a smile, "That should only take a couple of weeks."

Another memory of the same fellow. It was our year end party. All the students were well into their cups and dancing with little inhibition. Looking across the room I saw the Blackfoot student. He has a smile on his lips and a twinkle in his eye. I crossed the room and asked concerning the source of his amusement. He waved his hand to indicate the drunken dancing students. Quietly he spoke in my ear, "And people call us savages." No trace of resentment or bitterness. A hard fact turned to humour in the heart of a gentle elder.

George
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And we still wonder at the chaos confronted with in dealing with mortal versus eternal stuff? Such a gap to cross ...
 
Carolla said:
@Seeler - was there an Elder leading the Blanket Exercise and involved with its editing?
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Since I was not involved with the planning, I don't know how much she was involved or if she was simply an invited guest. She sat in the front with three other participants and was introduced as an Elder near the beginning of the service. I don't remember if she sasid a few words at that time - she stood and acknowledged the introduction. She didn't speak or actively participate again (others led prayers, read scripture, displayed blankets/removed blankets) until the end when she was invited to speak.

I had never heard before of the 'let them cry ... they need to feel their pain'. So different from our culture where we tend to touch and/or hug people who are crying, and sometimes crying with them, sharing their pain -- which may be to comfort them, but also has the effect of hushing them.

At the end of this elder's closing remarks she did tell us that the hurts of the past are past and not to be carried with us. This was also said at our recent bookclub meeting (different thread) where a different elder walked around a much smaller group and touched each of us on the shoulders with an eagle feather, so that we would not leave the discussion group (on The Inconvenient Indian) feeling guilty or sad.
 
There is need for pain to learn ... but can it be contained as rational?

Some believe you need to beat the "eL" out of the po' stuff ... and the rich remain perfectly beyond that! Yet the principalities still demand 8-10% increase in commissions and po' folk should support the increase until put down ... hysterical oppression?

Enough to leave wis dum ... pistis sufficient to recess into the shadows ... such is buried in the myth of word ... a kind of idealism of the other kind ...
 
We sang O Canada and later in the service sang a great hymn by Paul Rumbold that makes you think. The chorus goes, "In the end what matters most, is how well did you live, how well did you love and learn to let go."
 
It is hard for me to judge since I was leading the service. Seelerman and a visiting friend from PEI were there, swelling the congregation to about 30 people including a very good little choir. Things went smoothly with just one little mix-up in a responsive prayer. Comments at the door were good - the 'good to have you back', 'always enjoy your services', 'good message' type - but none really conveying that they got the message and it made a difference to them. They did say that they are looking forward to seeing me later this month. Sometimes the services that I work the hardest don't get as much positive feedback as the ones I'm a bit concerned about.

Meanwhile, for the next two Sundays, I'll be in a different pastoral charge.
 
Me too Seeler. The Hebrew scripture reading was sure a tough one this week: the binding of Isaac. I'm doing services for the rest of July and I try to get them done up ahead, because I never know what life has in store for me. But then I revise, and revise and revise for a few days before I lead worship.
 
We had pulpit supply while minister was on study week. She's on staff at Presbytery, know her daughter well, as she was our Youth Leader for a year. She referred to the Abraham/Isaac story somehow in her message, I'm not sure how, because the topic was on being genuinely present in our lives.

We began the service with O Canada, which irked me, Canada Day or not, and they sang "all our sons", not "all of us", which further irked me... It would have taken a fair bit for the service to rise above low-mediocre after that beginning and it didn't...
 
BetteTheRed said:
We had pulpit supply while minister was on study week. She's on staff at Presbytery, know her daughter well, as she was our Youth Leader for a year. She referred to the Abraham/Isaac story somehow in her message, I'm not sure how, because the topic was on being genuinely present in our lives.

We began the service with O Canada, which irked me, Canada Day or not, and they sang "all our sons", not "all of us", which further irked me... It would have taken a fair bit for the service to rise above low-mediocre after that beginning and it didn't...
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Grumble grumble :D

No worries. I have those weeks, too. Every so often.
 
The great Isaac was blinded in a poke ... becoming a unseeing inner eye as sub conscience ... despised by many who follow their desires without mindful visions of the alternate! Sometimes known as Jacob ... as root word for John and Jack ... a sprout?

One needs to know their myths ... as airy as they seem there're rabi 'd ... thus the aboriginal Hare Mus ... Hermes?

As something with nothing to it ... it can be full filled by empiric ... experience of life? Myths proliferate ...
 
We began the service with O Canada, which irked me, Canada Day or not, and they sang "all our sons", not "all of us", which further irked me... It would have taken a fair bit for the service to rise above low-mediocre after that beginning and it didn't...[/QUOTE]

We sang O Canada at the service I led as well, but I invited everyone to sing whatever version they felt most comfortable with. On my way there I had listened to a variety of versions on CBC radio. I thought it would be neat to hear French, English, different words...all in the name of diversity, and caring about our country.
 
Well, by godde, if the heavens don't split open and take me now, Jae and I actually agree on something.

I would phrase it slightly differently: the church does NOT belong to the state/Caesar.

And, yeah, P3. :D It doesn't happen often; much more likely to happen with pulpit supply of various sorts. I am very familiar with the flow/content of our minister's services and she is very good.
 
I'm not fond of "O Canada" – or of any national anthem – in a church service.

1. I think Church service is dedicated to God. We need to pray for our country, but as far as I know, "O Canada" is not exactly a prayer but rather a patriotic song.

2. From a religious or moral issue, there are many issues with O Canada:
– is it promoting peace and peace-making?
– is it promoting equality amongst all people of Canada (yes, including natives)?
 
It's pretty hard, when you are a guest in the pulpit, to know what will or will not offend the congregation. Congregations definitely have personalities. I lead worship at this particular thriving church only about once or twice a year, when the minister is on holidays. Although I opted to sing O Canada (found in Voices United), I also prayed that devotion to nation would never conflict with devotion to the tenets of our faith. Rather, there are parts of our nationhood that fit well with our faith: I pointed out how our Charter of Rights and Freedoms starts off by deferring to God.
 
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