Giving to PanHandlers

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Kimmio said:
Has anyone in Christian history ever truly followed the advice in Mark 10:21?
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The problem, when just one verse is isolated, is the full context of the story is not understood. As I understand it, Jesus was talking to a man who idolized wealth and possessions; a man who was greedy and refused to help those in need.
 
Pr. Jae said:
If giving isn't someone's gift than they shouldn't give? That doesn't sound right John.
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If speaking in tongues isn't a gift of yours will you insist on speaking in tongues? Is that how we are to treat the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Fake it till we make it? Does that sound right to you?

In the context of giving to pan handlers the comment stands where I have put it and is intended not to be a source of shame or intimidation. Do what God, via the Holy Spirit lays upon your heart. If it is giving then give. If it is in not giving then don't.

If you want a blanket or universal approach to all things you are going to be disappointed and you are going to lead others into making mistakes.
 
And if they do not have the gift what then? Will you reprimand them for that or be content if they can put five intelligible words together?
 
BetteTheRed said:
A guaranteed minimum income would be justice, not charity.

And no, Jae, I don't think anyone wants to be homeless (and it was a really fricking cold night up here last night), but some people find it much harder than others to fit into the system, and/or to succeed at it.
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A guaranteed minimum income is what I would vote for as well. I think in the long run it would save government money ... take away all the welfare administration costs to start ... Mr. Undef also has a 38 years of age son who often finds himself in a homeless situation due to his nature ... he is like a genius in so many ways but can never conform enough to keep steady employment ... last time he was living with us it ended in him smashing Mr. Undef's electric guitar ... an act which he coined as 'a subtle gesture of grave disappointment'. In order for him to survive on what Social Security allows he has to admit to being schizophrenic and have drug tests to prove that he is taking medication prescribed ... this he is not willing to concede on ... and even with that amount of extra disability insurance there are not many places he could afford to live on his own. Being continually at the mercy of his relatives 'charity' leaves him feeling despondent and unable to be himself. Were he to have a guaranteed income he would be a very productive citizen ... he is a musician, he prefers to ride a bike as opposed to drive a vehicle, he can knit, he is an artist and a photographer, he eats organic as much as he can afford, he is innovative and a happy wanderer ... people like him a lot ... he just can't live in close quarters with other people but is still able to be a good neighbor. Add to that the burden of not being able to 'pay' his own way or forcing medicine on him that he finds 'surely worse than being dead' ... this is an accident waiting to happen. Perhaps he will physically murder himself some day to get out of the society that he was born into ... a few of his friends in similar such positions already have ... all because our government refuses to take care of it's 'corporate chattel' with any sense of dignity. There are a lot of really great 'homeless' citizens all around us ... they deserve our respect not our pity. The government that allows so many 'poor' to decay in their streets deserves our contempt ... they do choose all the time to protect themselves and line their own pockets first.
 
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Somehow I find clarity in communication to be more important than speaking in tongues which, I understand, sometimes requires an interpreter.
 
Pr. Jae said:
Of course there should be the justice of which you speak. Let's keep people fed - housed - and clothed in the meantime though ;)
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Kind of like this ...
This Baptist Charity Is Being Paid Hundreds of Millions to Shelter Child Migrants
At TIME, Alex Altman and Elizabeth Dias report on BCFS, a Baptist charity that runs facilities housing unaccompanied immigrant children. The charity, which began in 1944 as a home for orphaned children, has received $280 million in federal grants since December to run the shelters. Some voice concerns that the facilities are kept too heavily under wraps, but BCFS argues that they’re off-limits for security reasons. “As a result,” the authors write, “it’s hard to gauge the conditions under which thousands of children are being held, or to assess whether taxpayer money is being well spent.”

Meanwhile Mr Undef's son having walked across the border between Canada and The US was 'apprehended' and thrown in jail for eighteen days before his father was called to pick him up ... he was released to his father's custody only on the guarantee that his father would have him medicated and that he not be allowed to cross into the United States of America again for a period of 10 years ... his crime ... wanting to visit a girlfriend but not having identification to cross the border.
 
Giving to Panhandlers ---Giving money to this person is it actually helping them in their personal life to change their position or is it just feeding their habit of alcohol or drug abuse or whatever else gambling etc--- would it be better to direct them to where they can get food , water and shelter or cloths or at least provide the food and water to them --that is offer to take them to a food place and pay for the meal etc instead of giving them money directly . The Bible says this about this type of situation ----consider the cause of the poor ---offer your time and if this is refused and money is requested then the person is not interested in changing their status in my opinion ---they want to feed their habit -----better to share the Gospel with them than give them money to contribute to their lack even more .

Proverbs 29:7New King James Version (NKJV)

7 The righteous considers the cause of the poor,
But the wicked does not understand such knowledge.

Giving alms to the poor is showing mercy and money could be given but know the purpose it is serving ----

Proverbs 17:16GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

16 Why should a fool have money in his hand to buy wisdom
when he doesn’t have a mind to grasp anything?

Blessings ---these are just my thoughts on this----
 
unsafe,
(y)
the cool thing is that, regardless of one's choice in the regard of the panhandler, if one is to make an informed choice, then one has to be in relationship with the panhandler -- to make an informed decision, one has to engage and talk with the panhandler

otherwise, one is just relying on past experiences which may not really apply to the panhandler

that's the cool thing aboot agape -- it requires engagement with other people and not relying on belief (where belief in this case is 'this is how it has worked out in the past for me')

being a Christian requires risk, a willingness to go beyond one's comfort zone imho, a willingness and ability (which requires experience and skill and talent) to get out of one's own way (the ego) when interacting with the world

which means, i guess, that not everyone can be a Christian, because not everyone is intelligent enough (where intelligence equals someone's ability to comprehend reality) to be able to mindfully engage with their world?
 
That intelligence of which you speak, though, is not our western-centric IQ, but emotional intelligence, yes?
 
BetteTheRed said:
That intelligence of which you speak, though, is not our western-centric IQ, but emotional intelligence, yes?
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Intelligence: one's ability to comprehend reality where reality is 'all there is'; emotions and how they work are part of 'all there is' -- I'm rather fond of this usage; it bypasses the western-centric protestant work-ethic pragmatism usage, that of intelligence is that which helps people produce useful work

(this, noting that words aren't the objects that they describe -- the map is not the territory; my usage naturally will not cover some concepts...)

To compare:
IQ, however, is a test to measure something more specific -- its use to is to help our education system to be able to fine-tune their education for those students who need the help, who don't fit into the bell curve

ty, various people's HS who have been contacting me -- not that I need even more confusion :confused:
 
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Came across this poster via a link on Facebook. Apparently this kind of thing was a way to motivate workers in the early decades of the twentieth century ---

vintage105.jpg
 
Pr. Jae said:
Came across this poster via a link on Facebook. Apparently this kind of thing was a way to motivate workers in the early decades of the twentieth century ---

vintage105.jpg
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TANSTAAFL!

-- everything has a cost

(damn all us freeloaders on Earth with our various entitlements -- we can breathe thanks to plants and oxygen, we eat thanks to plants and walking meat, we have energy and stay warm thanks to the sun's selfless sacrifice...damn freeloaders all of us)

still enjoying Jae's method of WC2 dialogue:
4408075412_08f118c0cd.jpg

(source google image search)
 
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Inukshuk said:
The problem, when just one verse is isolated, is the full context of the story is not understood. As I understand it, Jesus was talking to a man who idolized wealth and possessions; a man who was greedy and refused to help those in need.
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No the story doesn't tell that. It tells of someone who followed all the commandments from his youth. He was a wealthy man who trusted in riches. So do most of us. Our job security and benefits, our investments, the value of our property, having things beyond basics like TVs and computers and dishwashers and cars, etc. I'm just saying...not sure how many real Jesus followers there have ever been. Not many in the mainstream.
Shane Claiborne's getting there. I am sure he owns a few basic things, and he spends money from book sales on speaking engagements, so that he can preach as he does, but I think he's a real living example of Christianity more than most. He's really gone out on a limb. I am impressed by him. He wears mostly second hand and handmade clothes I was reading. Lives in a converted inner city drug house with a low income community, practices urban gardening with them. He is not just helping those in need, they are his community, his friends. Not many would really trust enough to give up all their possessions, truthfully...but the point is... the people he lives in community with already lost most or all of their possessions and he is living in solidarity with them not just giving them charity. I think that is the point of the story, actually. I am not advising everyone do it or that it's easy, I am just pointing it out. I think most of us don't give all we can, just all we want to. I am constantly questioning that about myself.
 
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Kimmio said:
No the story doesn't tell that. It tells of someone who followed all the commandments from his youth. He was a wealthy man who trusted in riches. So do most of us. Our job security and benefits, our investments, the value of our property, having things beyond basics like TVs and computers and dishwashers and cars, etc. I'm just saying...not sure how many real Jesus followers there have ever been. Not many in the mainstream.
Shane Claiborne's getting there. I am sure he owns a few basic things, and he spends money from book sales on speaking engagements, so that he can preach as he does, but I think he's a real living example of Christianity more than most. He's really gone out on a limb. I am impressed by him. He wears mostly second hand and handmade clothes I was reading. Lives in a converted inner city drug house with a low income community, practices urban gardening with them. He is not just helping those in need, they are his community, his friends. Not many would really trust enough to give up all their possessions, truthfully...but the point is... the people he lives in community with already lost most or all of their possessions and he is living in solidarity with them not just giving them charity. I think that is the point of the story, actually. I am not advising everyone do it or that it's easy, I am just pointing it out. I think most of us don't give all we can, just all we want to. I am constantly questioning that about myself.
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Hi Kimmio--Now just my thoughts here . I know you cannot buy GOD. You cannot out give Him. But there is another thing you best not do. The rich man did it. Jesus said take all you have and give it away , and come follow me.The man was very wealthy .He could not , so you see he put money before GOD. Thou shell have no other GOD before me.For I the LORD your GOD is a jealous God.
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
God Bless --airclean33
 
Pr. Jae said:
Nevertheless - I believe you will speak in tongues to the degree that you are able :)
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Hi Pr. Jae --Many on wonder-cafe cannot or will not talk in tongues Jae. Some time back Rev John had said he was one who did not. Many on wonder cafe I believe, don't even understand what Tongues are all about because of this. God Bless ---airclean33
 
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