Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Yes you can all group hug around your nonsensical arguments.
Defunding & Investigating Planned Parenthood
- Thread starter Jaebius
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GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Or disagree respectfully...?
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
Hi George, I'll see what I can do. I am busy, so long answers are hard to fit in.
I have Cree (mother side) mic mac (father side) and trace lineage to Red River settlement in MB. So card carrying Metis. My Grandfather hid Lois Real on the family farm when he was on the run. My grandmother often woke up with Indians sleeping all over the kitchen floor or tepees setup in the yard.
And your Cree reference, like all your references have 0 to do with abortion. There would be no seventh generation if you execute the first.
DaisyJane
I probably should be working.
I guess I followed George's Cree reference. I took it to mean that we need to look at the long-reaching consequences of our decisions - though I will defer to Geo's analysis.
Abortion is such a complex issue and it is impossible to talk about abortion and not talk about health/employment/social supports for women and children, reproductive education and other key social issues. Similarly, conversations about abortion, and the purported value of "life" by pro-life advocates link to other conversations about life/death (i.e.: MAID/capital punishment) and often demonstrate pro-life's shallow understanding of the issues and a narrow definition of "life". In other words, we cannot isolate abortion to the single act of terminating a pregnancy despite what pro-life advocates might wish. The issue of ending a pregnancy is far more nuanced and multifaceted. Like Geo, I don't see any nonsensical arguments at all.
For example, pro-life advocates are often only concerned about the birth of the baby. Once that baby is born their silence on issues such as child health (so Geo's reference to dietary issues and mass marketing and the evangelical silence on such topics), maternal health (dismantling health care) and so on, communicates volumes about their inability to nuance the discussion and look at far the reaching consequences (or seven generations?). In the end the pro-choice movement (note not pro-ABORTION) is left with the sense that the posturing is more about appearances, judgement, and sexual control of women because life, when holistically defined, is not the centre of the issue.
Abortion is such a complex issue and it is impossible to talk about abortion and not talk about health/employment/social supports for women and children, reproductive education and other key social issues. Similarly, conversations about abortion, and the purported value of "life" by pro-life advocates link to other conversations about life/death (i.e.: MAID/capital punishment) and often demonstrate pro-life's shallow understanding of the issues and a narrow definition of "life". In other words, we cannot isolate abortion to the single act of terminating a pregnancy despite what pro-life advocates might wish. The issue of ending a pregnancy is far more nuanced and multifaceted. Like Geo, I don't see any nonsensical arguments at all.
For example, pro-life advocates are often only concerned about the birth of the baby. Once that baby is born their silence on issues such as child health (so Geo's reference to dietary issues and mass marketing and the evangelical silence on such topics), maternal health (dismantling health care) and so on, communicates volumes about their inability to nuance the discussion and look at far the reaching consequences (or seven generations?). In the end the pro-choice movement (note not pro-ABORTION) is left with the sense that the posturing is more about appearances, judgement, and sexual control of women because life, when holistically defined, is not the centre of the issue.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi Pontifex,
Thank you! Time is of no concern to me. Nor is short. I will start a fresh thread under the heading "Difference of Perspective Respectfully Engaged". I will place it in "Religion and Faith".
George
Thank you! Time is of no concern to me. Nor is short. I will start a fresh thread under the heading "Difference of Perspective Respectfully Engaged". I will place it in "Religion and Faith".
George
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
There is a time that is right to kill and a time that is wrong to kill.
If a terrorist goes into a theatre and starts killing people and you have the means to stop them, that would be a right time.
If a pregnancy endangers a mother's life, that would be an appropriate time to end that child's life.
If I am driving down the road and start to kill all the drivers who are slower than me, that is a wrong time to kill. Likewise, killing a child because they are an inconvenience or hardship is a wrong time to kill.
So I agree with safe legal and rare. 25% is not rare.
From a biblical standpoint, God wanted his people to wipe out other peoples because of their practice of killing their own children.
Trying to add a bunch of crap into the equation doesn't fool adults. If we ignore you, it doesn't mean we agree.
It's like you think you are trying to take a toy from a toddler and distracting them with a bunch of other toys, so they will forget the important one.
But Prolifers will not be distracted. Sacrificing babies to the God of Convenience is immoral.
If a terrorist goes into a theatre and starts killing people and you have the means to stop them, that would be a right time.
If a pregnancy endangers a mother's life, that would be an appropriate time to end that child's life.
If I am driving down the road and start to kill all the drivers who are slower than me, that is a wrong time to kill. Likewise, killing a child because they are an inconvenience or hardship is a wrong time to kill.
So I agree with safe legal and rare. 25% is not rare.
From a biblical standpoint, God wanted his people to wipe out other peoples because of their practice of killing their own children.
Trying to add a bunch of crap into the equation doesn't fool adults. If we ignore you, it doesn't mean we agree.
It's like you think you are trying to take a toy from a toddler and distracting them with a bunch of other toys, so they will forget the important one.
But Prolifers will not be distracted. Sacrificing babies to the God of Convenience is immoral.
Pontifex Geronimo 13
#walkaway
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
There are very easy ways to make abortion rare: i) make a range of birth control widely available, for free, or extremely cheap; ii) provide accurate, intellectually honest sex education, woven right into the school curriculum, from an early age; iii) make Plan B available OTC in pharmacies.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
Agreement on this point. Sacrificing anything to the god of convenience is immoral. There is one way leading to life. That is the way of personal responsibility in light of the seventh generation; the world to come. How will what I decide and do shape the world which future generations will inherit?
I give my heart and soul to shape a world where all children may grow to maturity healthy and happy. My effort is of no consequence in face of the great opposition to this aim by the powers and principalities spoiling the earth and its people for profit. But I am not alone. Every day there are more persons, in all places, deciding to step out of imperial agenda to embrace the opportunity for redemption of creature and creation.
If you want to dismiss my perspective, please do so without resort to the accusatory voice by which I am presented as some kind of nut bar with no clue as to what is unfolding in these days. We are in this together and our challenge is learning how to work towards unity rather than division. That division being grounded in the notion that me and mine are right while you and yours are wrong. That division strengthened by the accusative voice.
George
Agreement on this point. Sacrificing anything to the god of convenience is immoral. There is one way leading to life. That is the way of personal responsibility in light of the seventh generation; the world to come. How will what I decide and do shape the world which future generations will inherit?
I give my heart and soul to shape a world where all children may grow to maturity healthy and happy. My effort is of no consequence in face of the great opposition to this aim by the powers and principalities spoiling the earth and its people for profit. But I am not alone. Every day there are more persons, in all places, deciding to step out of imperial agenda to embrace the opportunity for redemption of creature and creation.
If you want to dismiss my perspective, please do so without resort to the accusatory voice by which I am presented as some kind of nut bar with no clue as to what is unfolding in these days. We are in this together and our challenge is learning how to work towards unity rather than division. That division being grounded in the notion that me and mine are right while you and yours are wrong. That division strengthened by the accusative voice.
George
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
TANSTAAFL
Everything has a cost
The Laws of Thermodynamics
Another cool thread I missed
I think there already are some people who are pro-choice and some people who are pro-life working together toward ending poverty, abuse and misery.
Sure, absolutely - when what we're discussing is murder.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
oh f*** off, darling
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