Defunding & Investigating Planned Parenthood

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The label "pro-life" is usually devious and dishonest. Someone who calls themselves would value all life. "Pro-life" people often support the death penalty. How does the death penalty fit with a pro-life view of the world? If someone values life they value all life - even the lives that are hard to value. It seems to me that most "pro-life" people only value the lives of fetuses.
 
Northwind said:
How does the death penalty fit with a pro-life view of the world?
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Why are Christians pro-life when it comes to abortion while at the same time in favor of the death penalty and supportive of war?

From the article, "Christians should be consistently pro-life. However, being pro-life does not necessitate being anti-death in all circumstances. If one person murders another person, the just penalty is to end the life of the murderer. This actually upholds the value of life. Anyone who violates life in premeditated murder should be put to death – proclaiming clear support for the value of life."
 
Jae said:
If one person murders another person, the just penalty is to end the life of the murderer.
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That is faulty logic. I didn't check the link to read the whole article. I am always bothered by the idea that when someone kills it is considered murder. Yet the executioner is valued. Why is the executioner not a murderer. Doesn't the commandment to not kill apply to everyone?
 
Northwind said:
That is faulty logic. I didn't check the link to read the whole article. I am always bothered by the idea that when someone kills it is considered murder. Yet the executioner is valued. Why is the executioner not a murderer. Doesn't the commandment to not kill apply to everyone?
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The commandment is not to murder.

"You shall not murder" - Exodus 20:13 (ESV)

The executioner, when acting in their role as executioner, is not murdering. Indeed, by performing their role, the executioner is working toward preventing future murders from taking place.
 
Jae said:
The commandment is not to murder.

"You shall not murder" - Exodus 20:13 (ESV)

The executioner, when acting in their role as executioner, is not murdering. Indeed, by performing their role, the executioner is working toward preventing future murders from taking place.
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I don't understand. What makes lawful killing better than unlawful killing? Taking a life is taking a life. The death penalty does not deter future murderers. The Death Penalty and Deterrence – Amnesty International USA
 
Jae said:
The latter is murder, which is against God's commandment. The former, in the context we've been talking about, is punishment for having murdered.
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You said that execution deters murders. It doesn't. See my link and do more research. How can it be good?
 
Northwind said:
You said that execution deters murders. It doesn't. See my link and do more research. How can it be good?
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What I actually said Northwind was this, "Indeed, by performing their role, the executioner is working toward preventing future murders from taking place."
 
Yes you said that Jae. How is the executioner preventing future murders?????? The death penalty does not deter. Most people who kill are not serial murderers. Explain.
 
Northwind said:
Yes you said that Jae. How is the executioner preventing future murders?????? The death penalty does not deter. Most people who kill are not serial murderers. Explain.
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Northwind, did you read the article that I posted? Did you read the words from the article that I posted here? Here some of them are again as perhaps you missed them: "If one person murders another person, the just penalty is to end the life of the murderer. This actually upholds the value of life. Anyone who violates life in premeditated murder should be put to death – proclaiming clear support for the value of life." We as a society should proclaim clear support for the value of life. At least I think so. Your mileage varies?

Another article well worth considering: Studies Say Death Penalty Deters Crime
 
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In a world (pool) of lies do superficial thinkers get sucked in? Should one carry some light with one into the dark places to assist in seeing complex visions? Life through the eye of the one on the fly ...
 
DaisyJane said:
Wait. So MAID is murder, abortion is murder, but a state sanctioned execution is NOT murder.

Holy crap. Do the intellectual gymnastics you have to engage to support your arguments ever get tiring? Since, you know, they lack logic and common sense.
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I reject your premises that, "they lack logic and common sense." Rather, I hold that upholding the value of life is always logical, sensible, wise and wonderful.
 
Jae said:
The commandment is not to murder.

"You shall not murder" - Exodus 20:13 (ESV)

The executioner, when acting in their role as executioner, is not murdering. Indeed, by performing their role, the executioner is working toward preventing future murders from taking place.
Click to expand...
Incarceration does the same thing and upholds God's law. Also do not fight evil with evil.
 
Jae said:
I reject your premises that, "they lack logic and common sense." Rather, I hold that upholding the value of life is always logical, sensible, wise and wonderful.
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You can reject all you want.

In the MAID thread you argued that MAID was murder because God was not the author of the death. As far as I can see God is not the author of a state-sanctioned execution so your logic falls apart pretty fast and torturous mental gymnastics take over. It's the only way you can make the argument work.

Similarly, bringing unwanted and unplanned babies into situations of poverty, abuse, and misery with few or no ways to mitigate such difficult circumstances sure as hell isn't doing things like upholding the value of life.

Your posturing is just that, posturing. It seems to me that you spout these ideas because either a) you're a troll, or b) these platitudinous judgements make you feel superior and chosen in some way.

I might take you more seriously if you actually engaged in conversation using your own words and ideas rather than posting evangelical, which often lacks nuance and critical judgement, literature as justifications for your ideas.
 
DaisyJane said:
As far as I can see God is not the author of a state-sanctioned execution so your logic falls apart pretty fast and torturous mental gymnastics take over. It's the only way you can make the argument work.
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“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image" - Genesis 9:6 (ESV).

:coffee:

DaisyJane said:
Similarly, bringing unwanted and unplanned babies into situations of poverty, abuse, and misery with few or no ways to mitigate such difficult circumstances sure as hell isn't doing things like upholding the value of life.
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Which is why we all should put programs and such in place to fight against poverty, abuse and misery.
 
Jae said:
Which is why we all should put programs and such in place to fight against poverty, abuse and misery.
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Do you think it's possible that those who work with pro life and pro choice could come together and join forces to bring this into fruition or does it have to be either/or?
 
Jae said:
Why are Christians pro-life when it comes to abortion while at the same time in favor of the death penalty and supportive of war?

From the article, "Christians should be consistently pro-life. However, being pro-life does not necessitate being anti-death in all circumstances. If one person murders another person, the just penalty is to end the life of the murderer. This actually upholds the value of life. Anyone who violates life in premeditated murder should be put to death – proclaiming clear support for the value of life."
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Except many people of faith reject the idea that killing is just. In any case., by any one.

Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life is the pat of vengeance not justice, not Christ-based love.
 
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