Covid 19 Vaccine

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I have had one shot March 11th but they moved the 2nd to the end of June (28th). Am worried the time line will cause
us to have to have more vaccines.
No one really knows the effect for each person. Israel's President mandated the whole population to be vaccinated for Pfizer.
One politician said it was not really a choice. And no way to report any bad effects, let alone good ones.

If we are told to have a card, or something to indicate we have been vaccinated we will be creating a kind of medical double class system.
I would avoid that at all costs. That is about fear, which is never a good plan to go by.

Some people cannot take this vaccine no matter where they live. I am concerned if we go on such a route what will
we be doing to people in the long run?

In our new ways of being church, being God in the world, sharing God's love for us all, we will be having to address how we
continue to be who we are meant to be...inclusive and sharing god's love in every aspect of life.

I support good nutrition with real food as the bottom line for each of us everywhere we are. It is the true basis of good health.

We have huge areas of how we live on the planet... right now, and how we treat each other across the globe. These mean
deciding for Equity, not backward. How can church... us.. bring God's equity to fruition?
In the time that the Light has shone exposing the gaps we must attend to... today... we are already at the edge.

Hard thinking, but we are up to this... with God leading....

God bless us all ....
SW 7
 
SW7, you said "I support good nutrition with real food as the bottom line for each of us everywhere we are. It is the true basis of good health."

Are you implying that you can avoid COVID through eating properly?
 
Canada is expecting the J&J vaccines to arrive at the end of April. Ten million doses with an option to order 28 million more. The advantage is you only need one dose.
But today, Canada is wondering what to do after the "pause " in the USA of the vaccine.

globalnews.ca

Johnson & Johnson vaccine to begin arriving in Canada by end of April - National | Globalnews.ca

This is the first time officials have provided dates for when doses of the Johnson and Johnson COVID-19 vaccine would arrive, which was approved in Canada about three weeks ago.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
 
Spirit Wind 7 said:
Israel's President mandated the whole population to be vaccinated for Pfizer.
One politician said it was not really a choice. And no way to report any bad effects, let alone good ones.
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound right. My understanding was that Israel did a deal with Pfizer to basically be a trial, so they were collecting data from the Israeli program for their research data pool. So, yes, there would have been a way to report effects, I am pretty sure.

Spirit Wind 7 said:
Some people cannot take this vaccine no matter where they live. I am concerned if we go on such a route what will
we be doing to people in the long run?
Click to expand...
Almost every vaccine has people who are not able to take it including flu. The trick is to get most or all of the people who can so there's enough "herd immunity" to protect the ones who cannot. The problem is that vaccine hesitancy or anti-vax will get enough of a toehold to keep that from happening.

Which means this

Spirit Wind 7 said:
If we are told to have a card, or something to indicate we have been vaccinated we will be creating a kind of medical double class system.
I would avoid that at all costs. That is about fear, which is never a good plan to go by.
Click to expand...
Should only be a short term issue. Once we get a large enough population vaccinated and establish how often boosters need to be done, the need for such IDs will go away and it will be like flu. No one needs proof of a flu shot to go anywhere.

Long term, you might get some countries bringing in COVID vaccination as a requirement for entry but as discussed elsewhere in this thread, we have that now with yellow fever in some parts of the Americas.

But, again, it's vaccine hesitancy and anti-vaxxers that could derail all this. If a large population of those who can be vaccinated choose not to, then there may be a large enough pool of potential "victims" that the bug can keep surviving and mutating. And if vaccine passports become a motivation for some people to get their shot who might not have otherwise, maybe they aren't such a bad idea.

Spirit Wind 7 said:
I support good nutrition with real food as the bottom line for each of us everywhere we are. It is the true basis of good health.
Click to expand...
Diet has squat to do with preventing COVID or any viral infection. You can be healthiest eater on the planet and still get a virus. You may not get as sick, you may be more likely to survive if you do get seriously ill, but you can, and probably will, still get it and you can still spread it to others who may not be as healthy. Eat healthy, exercise, and get vaccinated. All are part of the equation.
 
Well here's something. I wasn't aware of, Immune Enhancement. Perhaps we could have our resident chemist @ChemGal explain it in more simple terms?

www.the-scientist.com

COVID-19 Vaccine Researchers Mindful of Immune Enhancement

There is no evidence that any of the coronavirus vaccines in development worsen a coronavirus infection rather than confer immunity to it, but the phenomenon is something scientists are closely monitoring.
www.the-scientist.com www.the-scientist.com
 
Waterfall said:
Well here's something. I wasn't aware of, Immune Enhancement. Perhaps we could have our resident chemist @ChemGal explain it in more simple terms?

www.the-scientist.com

COVID-19 Vaccine Researchers Mindful of Immune Enhancement

There is no evidence that any of the coronavirus vaccines in development worsen a coronavirus infection rather than confer immunity to it, but the phenomenon is something scientists are closely monitoring.
www.the-scientist.com www.the-scientist.com
Click to expand...
This isn't something I'm super familiar with, but I understand the article, as long as it's specific to what's being discussed - it's possible it goes beyond this scenario though for what ADE may include. The article talks about Antibody-Dependent Enhancement.

One thing to keep in mind - a virus cannot replicate on it's own, if say a virus is floating around in the blood (or any tissue for that matter) but isn't actually in a cell, there will just be that virus, it can not make new viruses. It needs to be inside a cell to start replicating.

Macrophages - are a type of white blood cell that are basically a clean up crew, they literally form what looks like a cartoony mouth to 'swallow' things in the cell. In the case of a virus, if there's an antibody that has latched on a macrophage will come over, swallow it up, and then break it apart and stick some of it on it's outside - a way to show the immune system, hey this is something that has invaded us and we need to deal with it.

If the antibodies do not actually inactive the virus though, these viruses can be swallowed up by the macrophages, as expected, but then instead of being broken apart it can actually do what a virus does, start replicating within the macrophage. This results in more virus particles being spit out into the body, more antibodies attaching to these new virus particles, and then new macrophages swallow them up being infected, repeat.
 
The part further down in the article includes a lot of different aspects. Basically, it's the reason for some of the side effects of vaccines, when we turn the immune system on, it does cause problems. Fever, inflammation, allergies, the swelling attacks I experience etc. are all based on at least 1 part of the immune system being activated. Turning it on allows for the invaders to be found and killed - but with what we see with an allergic reaction, it does harm to the body if its turned on too high.

With COVID, a lot of the damage is due to our own immune system trying to inactivate all of the virus. From what we see, what tends to happen, is in those who don't have an immune system that responds quickly (like is common in the elderly), the virus gets to replicate, and then it's infected a fair bit of the body and then various parts of the immune system are turned on. These aren't all related to antibodies either - for example, bradykinin has been proposed to be own of the issues, that's what I deal with in my swelling attacks. The immune system is fairly complicated though, when antibodies are produced, it can signal on other parts too. So there's potential with being vaccinated, that when we are actually infected with the virus, parts of the immune system are turned on too high, causing us to be sick.

Totally theorizing on my part now - with the blood clots that are being seen. One of the possibilities is that antibodies are being formed that end up binding to platelets (more specifically platelet factor 4, a chemical the platelets produce) - these antibodies have been found in those with the blood clots. Now if this antibody is in response to the virus used for the vaccine, this shouldn't be an issue if those who produce this antibody get exposed to SarsCoV-2. If this antibody is actually connected to the antigen though - ie. what these vectors end up making in the body, the antibodies we 'want' but weren't expecting to also bind to platelet factor 4 - when if these individuals get exposed to real virus, they are at risk of developing clots again, so it's possible for them the vaccine will actually make them sicker if they get COVID than they would have been without.
 
ChemGal said:
The part further down in the article includes a lot of different aspects. Basically, it's the reason for some of the side effects of vaccines, when we turn the immune system on, it does cause problems. Fever, inflammation, allergies, the swelling attacks I experience etc. are all based on at least 1 part of the immune system being activated. Turning it on allows for the invaders to be found and killed - but with what we see with an allergic reaction, it does harm to the body if its turned on too high.

With COVID, a lot of the damage is due to our own immune system trying to inactivate all of the virus. From what we see, what tends to happen, is in those who don't have an immune system that responds quickly (like is common in the elderly), the virus gets to replicate, and then it's infected a fair bit of the body and then various parts of the immune system are turned on. These aren't all related to antibodies either - for example, bradykinin has been proposed to be own of the issues, that's what I deal with in my swelling attacks. The immune system is fairly complicated though, when antibodies are produced, it can signal on other parts too. So there's potential with being vaccinated, that when we are actually infected with the virus, parts of the immune system are turned on too high, causing us to be sick.

Totally theorizing on my part now - with the blood clots that are being seen. One of the possibilities is that antibodies are being formed that end up binding to platelets (more specifically platelet factor 4, a chemical the platelets produce) - these antibodies have been found in those with the blood clots. Now if this antibody is in response to the virus used for the vaccine, this shouldn't be an issue if those who produce this antibody get exposed to SarsCoV-2. If this antibody is actually connected to the antigen though - ie. what these vectors end up making in the body, the antibodies we 'want' but weren't expecting to also bind to platelet factor 4 - when if these individuals get exposed to real virus, they are at risk of developing clots again, so it's possible for them the vaccine will actually make them sicker if they get COVID than they would have been without.
Click to expand...
It also seems to suggest that if a vaccine were to develop an immune enhancement.....that those who received the vaccine, will respond worse than those who did not receive a vaccine if they are exposed a second time. And actually getting the virus a second time, will cause the virus to become very serious or deadly rather than produce an immunity?
Seems like they're watching for this, but aren't really quite sure yet because of not having enough people vaccinated for a longer period of time?
Could this be part of the problem with the new variants being able to get past the vaccinated and still infect them, IYO?
 
Waterfall said:
It also seems to suggest that if a vaccine were to develop an immune enhancement.....that those who received the vaccine, will respond worse than those who did not receive a vaccine if they are exposed a second time. And actually getting the virus a second time, will cause the virus to become very serious or deadly rather than produce an immunity?
Seems like they're watching for this, but aren't really quite sure yet because of not having enough people vaccinated for a longer period of time?
Could this be part of the problem with the new variants being able to get past the vaccinated and still infect them, IYO?
Click to expand...
There's a lot of complicated aspects you're asking here.
When we produce antibodies, it's a big mixture, for 1. So those who produce the platelet factor 4 antibodies for example, will also have other antibodies in response to the vaccine that don't interact with antibodies at all.

With the variants, I haven't seen any indicators that those who have been vaccinated end up sicker than those who were not, so at this point I would say it's unlikely although it's a possibility.

The immune enhancement - both types, can occur with vaccines, but they can also occur with infections too. So if this does become a problem, it could be from getting COVID a first time.
 
Shopper's system is a mess IMO. The day I was eligible their site didn't state so. I tried just saying yes, despite their criteria, that got me through to pick a pharmacy (where I would have lied about my conditions if I went). No appointment or anything like that though.

I got a text at about 2am this morning from them with a link - I still haven't been able to access it! It just brings up an error.
 
i registered on the shoppers site prior to being able to register in the region.
I got my one in the region, and got a text today from shoppers re there vaccine, but, didn't do anything with it. I'm hesitant on clicking on links from texts.
 
I didn't give SDM my cell # (I have been VERY successful at keeping my cell # private), but I did get an e-mail from them the other day saying, "there's something available, book it right now or it's gone", so I ignored it. I've got my vaccine booked for less than two weeks from now, and that's good with me.
 
Everything is such a mess. There are not enough vaccines so people are struggling to get an appointment. If Trudeau had gotten us enough there would not be this issue

what I find interesting is 52% of people think he has done a good job. Because he cuts the cheque. Omg
 
Agreed. I think that the Conservative provincial leaders have more or less proven that party affiliation isn't much of a predictor of a well-managed provincial pandemic. BC and the Atlantic provinces, and the territories, seem to be more "humanely responsive", the biggest, densest provinces are in a mess, despite their vastly differently political views (PC vs BQ). LP, I just cannot move my responses to this to a federal Conservative/Liberal dualism sorta debate. I do not get how you get to there from here.
 
I signed up for SDM a while back, then found out I was eligible to receive a vaccine from the local public health. I booked my vaccine for April 10, and received it last weekend. The Thursday or Friday before my shot SDM, offered me an appointment for Monday the 12th, with the 24 hour deadline to confirm. 'Twas a tempting offer, since it was in town, as opposed to 50 minutes drive away. Then I remembered what vaccine they were offering...
 
I too had registered for pharmacy jabs before eligible age dropped at my area hospital. I was able to cancel myself from the list of one pharmacy, but not the two others. I e-mailed Shoppers yesterday about lack of option to cancel, after receiving several notices from them - they said just ignore the notices & it will expire. I guess when it's all automated it doesn't matter much to use up time & effort. Still, seemed weird.

My dtr had her vaccination today - Whistler's mayor advocated hard for all people who live or work in Whistler to be eligible due to high positivity rates - and won!
 
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