Bullying

[ChemGal]

With a quote like this below in your messages, I don’t think anybody would assume that CG would be having trouble managing messages she doesn’t want to get.
I can’t see any intentional harm in Northwind responding to DLs messages that CG was originally included in.
quote:
“If you have any questions about how to use the site, you can ask me and hopefully I can help!”

We do not actually have a block feature, ie. preventing 1 person from sending messages. I know I could prevent everyone from sending me messages.
Harm can come from what is included in messages.

 

[JayneWonders]

When it's regarding things that happened between the 2 of us it's another method of bullying. Why should I have to continually put up with this?
Why I brought it up here?

I have no done this now.

Chemgal, i'm confused.

• If someone, such as DL invites you to a conversation along with others, and you respond, or they respond, how is that someone bullying?
• If you had not been invited, it would have just been a private message between them. You would be unaware of their conversation.
• If you were invited, and you leave via option 2, it will be just private messages between them. You would be unaware of their conversation.
• If you stay, or leave by option 1, then, you are choosing to be part of the conversation.

I was invited to a huge conversation that was life draining for me a while back, so I get that conversations can be a challenge.

I understand that Northwind felt that she was doing the right thing in today's message. She was trying to NOT go behind your back. Clearly, you didn't feel it was the right thing, but, it would have been easier to simply say "please do not include me in these messages in future" and then leave via option2

Would that have been possible?

 

[Northwind]

@jayne

We do not actually have a block feature, ie. preventing 1 person from sending messages. I know I could prevent everyone from sending me messages.
Harm can come from what is included in messages.

Please quote what I have included in these alleged messages. @JayneWonders has tried to help you. I have stated (for what it's worth) that I have not initiated any messages with you in some time. In fact, arguably you started the one saying you were willing to talk that included chansen. You make these accusations and accuse me of lying yet don't back up your statement

Perhaps these CG and NW related posts need their own thread since they are derailing this excellent thread.

 

[JayneWonders]

The thread was started by @paradox3 . If she likes, she could request that all threads related to the @ChemGal , @Northwind challenges be moved into a new thread by the mods.

Note: my apologies. I just noticed that I used CG instead of ChemGal. I have amended in this post. Will ensure do properly next time.

 

[Northwind]

When it's regarding things that happened between the 2 of us it's another method of bullying. Why should I have to continually put up with this?
Why I brought it up here?

This goes two ways. Why should I have to continually put up with you spelling out your version of what happened? Why is it not bullying when it comes from you? Why isn't it bullying when a moderator announces she's returning with a message spelling out how she was treated poorly by another member of the community? I know I was not the only one who reported that. Why is not bullying when you accuse me of gaslighting, lying, continuing to send you PMs, etc especially in a public space? Why is not bullying when you say you want boundaries then disregard mine?

 

[jimkenney12]

Some work cultures are so toxic that newer employees and the "nice" ones quit in a short order because of various forms of bullying. I remember a "nice" friend taking a job with social services in a small village and feeling like she'd been "thrown into a shark tank". She left after a couple of months and fortunately found a better fit with another agency.
Insular, small workplaces or departments with alliances of friends, family (nepotism), all acting in their own interests are the worst. Usually there's an authoritarian management style to outsiders and lots of secrecy around what needs to be done or sabotaging someone's ability to do their job.
This from educated adults in professional workplaces.
Not my intention to derail the larger discussions.

Too common

 

[JayneWonders]

This image was shared by a friend today.

I really like it.

 

[chansen]

This image was shared by a friend today.

I really like it.

"Physician, heal thyself" comes to mind.

 

[Redbaron]

Yup. Everyone waits for someone else to make the first move, and nothing ever changes.

 

[chansen]

Yup. Everyone waits for someone else to make the first move, and nothing ever changes.

I tried making the first move, years ago. I got burned.

 

[Northwind]

Yup. Everyone waits for someone else to make the first move, and nothing ever changes.

I really tried. Nothing changed. It did look hopeful for a bit. I am not hopeful now.

I just stopped in for a second and am leaving again for a break. For real.

 

[jimkenney12]

We had another thread about respecting each other's preferences for our names. Did @ChemGal indicate she felt respected by the use of CG? The same question applies to @Northwind.

An important theme for me last fall was the importance of strong communities as we mo e into aceorld where governments are increasingly unable and unwilling to provide the leadership needed to respond to events as they unfold. I count WC2 as an important community for me. I hope the conflict between chemgal and Northwind does not hurt this community. I also hope it will help us develop better strategies for responding to conflicts as they emerge.

 

[ChemGal]

We had another thread about respecting each other's preferences for our names. Did @ChemGal indicate she felt respected by the use of CG? The same question applies to @Northwind.

An important theme for me last fall was the importance of strong communities as we mo e into aceorld where governments are increasingly unable and unwilling to provide the leadership needed to respond to events as they unfold. I count WC2 as an important community for me. I hope the conflict between chemgal and Northwind does not hurt this community. I also hope it will help us develop better strategies for responding to conflicts as they emerge.

I am fine with CG.
I have similar hopes.

 

[paradox3]

The thread was started by @paradox3 . If she likes, she could request that all threads related to the @ChemGal , @Northwind challenges be moved into a new thread by the mods.

IMO this thread should remain intact. If either of the parties wishes to reflect on how the conflict escalated, they can review it at another time.

 

[Northwind]

We had another thread about respecting each other's preferences for our names. Did @ChemGal indicate she felt respected by the use of CG? The same question applies to @Northwind.

That is a good question and has been clarified since you asked it. I'm good with NW. I used short forms for both our names to be equal with short forms.

I also hope this conflict does not do damage to this community.

 

[paradox3]

This ongoing conflict between ChemGal and Northwind has already affected our community.

Ditto for the persistent conflict between Chansen and Aaron & the Council of the day.

Does either situation have relevance to a discussion about bullying? I think it does. We all will have opinions about whether or not bullying has actually taken place.

We will also have opinions about the interventions made by Council. I personally believe the Councils acted in good faith but managed to make two spectacular blunders:

1. Forcing Chansen to apologize to Aaron.

2. Instructing NW and CG to place each other on Ignore.

We are still witnessing the fallout from both of these decisions. I fully recognize I do not have all the facts in either situation. But they are playing out publicly and all of us form our impressions.

So yes. We are affected.

The other aspect is the role of the bystanders in bullying situations. I generally express my opinion if I have one. But I am asking myself if I have been too slow to do so here.

There is, of course, the counterargument that we should all mind our own business.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

I am wondering if we are diluting the definition of bullying. For me, this looks more like regular conflicts, with a lot of” he said-she said” as it usually is in conflicts.
Isn’t bullying more of a “ putting someone intentionally down in the degrading kind of way“, often with physical injury, humiliation and insult. Plain disrespect, which often is a part of conflict, does not have the severity of bullying. Continuing a conflict also is not necessarily bullying. Conflicts often do continue.
If council was involved in trying to solve the conflict and used its power to do so, but failed,it was certainly a mistake, but it was not out of bad intentions. Versus a bully who would need to demean someone for their own personal emotional gain.

 

[paradox3]

I was invited to a huge conversation that was life draining for me a while back, so I get that conversations can be a challenge.

Would this by any chance be the same Conversation I participated in recently? It was a fairly big group but maybe not huge. Life draining for sure.

 

[Redbaron]

I would agree with Mrs.Anteater's thoughts. One of my impressions from the gaslighting thread was that, after the word was mentioned, suddenly it seem that every second or third person around us was gaslighting us. I see that happening here with the idea of bullying as well. Seems some people can take a paper cut and fluff it up to something requiring the services of a personal injury lawyer who advertises on TV. This is not tp say that there is no gaslighting or bullying ever going on, but that some situations really don't meet the criteria.

 

[paradox3]

There is a subjective element to whether or not a person feels bullied on a forum like this. After all, there is no possibility of a physical threat or intimidation unless it passes over into Real Life.

And I think the situations with cyberbullying we read about in the media are different.

It was interesting to see @JayneWonders state that Jae was bullied here. I never thought so. In fact, I thought he picked on others at times. I might not call that bullying. But then again, I was never one of his targets.

Back in the days when we discussed the book written by she who we no longer name, I certainly faced opposition from her supporters. I never felt bullied however.

What if no one had shared my viewpoint though? I might have felt like I was being ganged up on. Probably not bullied.

I certainly agree that not all conflicts or bad behaviour equate to bullying.

Interesting discussion.