An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

[Waterfall]

"Not all?" Really?

It's a significant minority who perform same sex marriages. Not even all UCCAN churches do! I mean, seriously....

I stand corrected.

 

[blackbelt1961]

This is a classic example of the "I love you" and you are too dirty to serve...

Oh yes ... and the" I have gay friends" .... "the neighbour next door" ....
This is exactly the sickly sweet smarm that kills......

how would you , in your opinion, deal with The Church believing that same sex is a sin and also Loving them? , I mean is the only way to love another is by accepting his/her belief ?

 

[RitaTG]

how would you , in your opinion, deal with The Church believing that same sex is a sin and also Loving them? , I mean is the only way to love another is by accepting his/her belief ?

A very good and relevant question.....
1. Actually do some research into the psychological, medical, and emerging theological work being done on this.
2. If you are still not convinced then for goodness sakes share this information with them ... all of it.
Leave it to them to make up their own minds.
Make an agreement for both sides to have to represent both sides of the issue when teaching or preaching.
Include the person in the church as you would any other person ..... fully...
3. If you cannot do that then do not lead them on with so called "love" ...please don't tell them that...
Be clear that they have no equal place and shove them out .... it is kinder in the long run.
Just don't call it love ...... please ...... for us it is condemnation and a repugnant form of condescension.

 

[unsafe]

blackbelt your quote -----how would you , in your opinion, deal with The Church believing that same sex is a sin and also Loving them?

This is a great question for all to consider -----this is the real problem in a nut shell ---how to deal with one's belief and still love the person beyond the belief that you feel is wrong -----

 

[Waterfall]

I am reading that gay marriage was once legal in ancient Rome and that the emperor Nero actually married two men in a very public ceremony. Has anyone heard this before?

 

[blackbelt1961]

A very good and relevant question.....
1. Actually do some research into the psychological, medical, and emerging theological work being done on this.
2. If you are still not convinced then for goodness sakes share this information with them ... all of it.
Leave it to them to make up their own minds.
Make an agreement for both sides to have to represent both sides of the issue when teaching or preaching.
Include the person in the church as you would any other person ..... fully...

I agree with inclusion , but how does one convey his/her belief on the subject without injury to love?

3. If you cannot do that then do not lead them on with so called "love" ...please don't tell them that...
Be clear that they have no equal place and shove them out .... it is kinder in the long run.
Just don't call it love ...... please ...... for us it is condemnation and a repugnant form of condescension.

I dont believe all churches " shove them out" , I believe there are churches that are more legalistic than Graceful, yet for all of us our battle as we are told is in the mind, what we believe to be true, especially on the 2 biggest issues the Church faces today, 1 being homosexuality and 2 being abortion , so regardless of which side the christian falls on

how do they love each other and hold to there convictions?

 

[blackbelt1961]

blackbelt your quote -----how would you , in your opinion, deal with The Church believing that same sex is a sin and also Loving them?

This is a great question for all to consider -----this is the real problem in a nut shell ---how to deal with one's belief and still love the person beyond the belief that you feel is wrong -----

agreed !

 

[airclean33]

airclean .... would you please tell me your thoughts on this part of my post please....
Here is the thing .... what good is standing for a so called "righteous" viewpoint and crushing the spirit of a young one to the point that they succumb to suicide over it?
That is the point ..... suicide......
Care to discuss that? ... or is the viewpoint that drove them towards that more important?
Could we talk about that?????

-Hi RitaTG--I tried to tell you.Children have many things that can hurt them . Even to the point were they take there own life. I believe that what GOD has said about that which is good and that which is not. I will not teach a young person being gay is OK. For as I have said ,I believe it is wrong by GODS word . Christians were once called those of the way. Still are in some places. It seems some churches now today believe they can do as they please. I believe also that time is about up for them. They also may find that not obeying GOD will bring there house down.If you believe in following the gay life is fine. Then do so ,for one of these day we shell leave this flesh as all men have. Then we will know for sure.

 

[Jaebius]

I am reading that gay marriage was once legal in ancient Rome and that the emperor Nero actually married two men in a very public ceremony. Has anyone heard this before?

That's interesting Waterfall. I'd never heard before that Nero was a polygamist.

 

[chansen]

how do they love each other and hold to there convictions?

Forest starters, don't bloody well try to legislate your religious convictions into law for everyone. The more you do that, the more pushback you receive.

Second, stop the incessant religious preoccupation with sex. No one should care what your books say about sex. Where religion delves into sex, it makes things worse. And it shows the people who are preoccupied about it are more deviant and disordered than those carrying on behind closed doors with consenting adults. Every time a religious group or leader has advice on sexual matters, they should be met with widespread laughter. Christianity, especially, has lost the respect of the general population when it comes to sexual morality.

 

[Waterfall]

That's interesting Waterfall. I'd never heard before that Nero was a polygamist.

Actually it appears there is quite a history of gay marriage in many societies of the ancient world. It seems we digress often. Back and forth.

 

[RitaTG]

I agree with inclusion , but how does one convey his/her belief on the subject without injury to love?





I dont believe all churches " shove them out" , I believe there are churches that are more legalistic than Graceful, yet for all of us our battle as we are told is in the mind, what we believe to be true, especially on the 2 biggest issues the Church faces today, 1 being homosexuality and 2 being abortion , so regardless of which side the christian falls on

how do they love each other and hold to there convictions?

Inclusion .... quite simple ..... give both sides of the issue and then leave it to the individual to decide.
This respect that there are two sides to the issue and each person's decision is to be respected would be a great step towards an actual working love. This would not require either person to abandon their beliefs and allow both to participate fully in the church community.

 

[Waterfall]

Forest starters, don't bloody well try to legislate your religious convictions into law for everyone. The more you do that, the more pushback you receive.

Second, stop the incessant religious preoccupation with sex. No one should care what your books say about sex. Where religion delves into sex, it makes things worse. And it shows the people who are preoccupied about it are more deviant and disordered than those carrying on behind closed doors with consenting adults. Every time a religious group or leader has advice on sexual matters, they should be met with widespread laughter. Christianity, especially, has lost the respect of the general population when it comes to sexual morality.

Unfortunately there are many religions besides Christianity that endorse this and I'm sure there are atheists also that are homophobic as well.

 

[RitaTG]

-Hi RitaTG--I tried to tell you.Children have many things that can hurt them . Even to the point were they take there own life. I believe that what GOD has said about that which is good and that which is not. I will not teach a young person being gay is OK. For as I have said ,I believe it is wrong by GODS word . Christians were once called those of the way. Still are in some places. It seems some churches now today believe they can do as they please. I believe also that time is about up for them. They also may find that not obeying GOD will bring there house down.If you believe in following the gay life is fine. Then do so ,for one of these day we shell leave this flesh as all men have. Then we will know for sure.

Thank you for stating your position airclean.
I sincerely hope that there are no LGBTQ youth sitting under that sort of teaching.
It would seem that the young person's suicide is preferable to soiling the position of the church.
Keep in mind ..... such a "loving" stance has escorted many down the path of suicide .....
How is that seen as holy conviction rather than religious condemnation????

 

[chansen]

Unfortunately there are many religions besides Christianity that endorse this and I'm sure there are atheists also that are homophobic as well.

There are. But they don't tell everyone that they got the idea from their imaginary friend.

 

[airclean33]

blackbelt your quote -----how would you , in your opinion, deal with The Church believing that same sex is a sin and also Loving them?

This is a great question for all to consider -----this is the real problem in a nut shell ---how to deal with one's belief and still love the person beyond the belief that you feel is wrong

-----

airclean--Hi unsafe you know GOD Loves The World . even well it is in sin. GOD how ever will not except the world in sin. . This is the reason why He gave His Son Jesus The Christ. So you could come to Him with no sin.
It is not I who made these rules but GOD The Father. How do you get around that?

 

[blackbelt1961]

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[Delightful Life]

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[Delightful Life]

The Bible clearly teaches that some sexual acts are sinful. Other sexual acts it neither states are sinful or sinless. It says nothing directly about modern homosexual relationships.

Shouldn't all human acts be sinful by definition, because we will always be imperfect & miss the mark?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Inclusion .... quite simple ..... give both sides of the issue and then leave it to the individual to decide.

its not that simple to not if asked what is your belief as a pastor, church , ect

This respect that there are two sides to the issue and each person's decision is to be respected would be a great step towards an actual working love. This would not require either person to abandon their beliefs and allow both to participate fully in the church community.

I do see the Church on the whole ( i know there exceptions) respecting and loving LGBT, yet don't believe its not a sin so refuse to marry same sex , Can the LGBT community live and work within the christian community knowing that and Love as well?