What Do You Know About Islam?

[Luce NDs]

The Judi'ans felt the strange sympathies of the Sam-Aryan were a devil of a thing getting into the way of un budging laws of the more powerful Judi-ans ... and thus a lesser power than the more powerful Judi-ans. This leads to sublime thoughts to support an member of the lighter group as they float off as Levitated ... as Levites do differently than the Judi-an tribe ... a heavy handed group!

Does this make a travelling demon out of someone avoiding harsh laws by means of: mercy, justice, humility and all that plasticity as they give under force? Thus the earth creeps ... its a given ...

 

[Delightful Life]

Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie,

Cool, welcome to WC 2: the Second Coming. A fascimilie of paradise. Feel free to sample any of the fare the various waitcritters will bring you, here. Spend as long or as little you want to, here :3

 

[Delightful Life]

What do I know aboot Islam?

Well, even more so than Christianity, each individual has their own religion

And unlike sombunall other religions, its founder, Mohammad, was, by objective standards, a monster. Side note: again, I'm glad for people being able to out-think the beliefs they may learn and to make it their own -- to do what human beings are really good at -- remixing, editing and co-creating their world.

Here's a history of Islam (from Islamic sources, too), one of the most successful empires in human history, lasting some 1,300 years. Disclaimer: no, this doesn't mean that Islam 'is' 'evil' or that all followers of Islam are deluded or likewise.

Though I am increasingly more of the thought that we don't have free will in the Christian sense; we don't really know why we do the things we do but, rather, come up with reasons why, narratives, after we act. And we get upset when someone else has a different narrative than us. The world is an insanely complex place that we cannot comprehend fully, so we live in...myths or worlds of our own creating that help us to understand. And we also can get angry at other people`s worlds.

So a concern with the immigration is not just from people intentionally trying to scutter a culture, but, people, who are described above, bring their world with them and, when integrated, will, automatically, try to change the culture & laws & what others follows from there.

Anyway, I really like Sufi -- what I have seen is very beautiful and full of whimsy & humour.

Enjoy yourselves, folks and never be upset at who you are.

 

[Luce NDs]

What about the Upside-Down case ... reciprocation or itinerant ... as well Donne again as pulled over!

The Lord slept as NOSH 'd upon ... some say nashed ... and in Mique'ma that dark ... mysterious ... I was even born on the Nashwaak ... a river empty anne to the Saint John ... you know that fluid Saint?

 

[Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie]

What do I know aboot Islam?

Well, even more so than Christianity, each individual has their own religion

And unlike sombunall other religions, its founder, Mohammad, was, by objective standards, a monster. Side note: again, I'm glad for people being able to out-think the beliefs they may learn and to make it their own -- to do what human beings are really good at -- remixing, editing and co-creating their world.

Here's a history of Islam (from Islamic sources, too), one of the most successful empires in human history, lasting some 1,300 years. Disclaimer: no, this doesn't mean that Islam 'is' 'evil' or that all followers of Islam are deluded or likewise.

Though I am increasingly more of the thought that we don't have free will in the Christian sense; we don't really know why we do the things we do but, rather, come up with reasons why, narratives, after we act. And we get upset when someone else has a different narrative than us. The world is an insanely complex place that we cannot comprehend fully, so we live in...myths or worlds of our own creating that help us to understand. And we also can get angry at other people`s worlds.

So a concern with the immigration is not just from people intentionally trying to scutter a culture, but, people, who are described above, bring their world with them and, when integrated, will, automatically, try to change the culture & laws & what others follows from there.

Anyway, I really like Sufi -- what I have seen is very beautiful and full of whimsy & humour.

Enjoy yourselves, folks and never be upset at who you are.

Inannawhimsey, can you explain more how you came to the conclusion that Prophet Muhammad (p) is, by objective standards, a monster, as you say? Please be as frank and transparent as possible, I have every trust that if this conversation is conducted with sincerity it will lead to the best.

Many thanks.

 

[Seeler]

Over the last 30 years or so I have taken several courses on world religions, including a couple of hours or a day devoted to Islam. One included a visit to a mosque during a prayer time. They were very welcoming and hospitable.
Recently we had a Islam leader speak to our Presbytery about his religion.

My doctor, who follows the Islam religion, was born in Canada - her parents were from Pakistan (not Arab). Her husband is a Canadian convert.

 

[Luce NDs]

Canadian Convert ... an upset persona from Kan ata ...? What else could one expect from people residing too close to Ottawa?

Scott Peck held the opinion the people shouldn't get too close to evil ...

 

[Waterfall]

Inannawhimsey, can you explain more how you came to the conclusion that Prophet Muhammad (p) is, by objective standards, a monster, as you say? Please be as frank and transparent as possible, I have every trust that if this conversation is conducted with sincerity it will lead to the best.

Many thanks.

While you are awaiting Inanna's response, I wanted to ask you what is the proper way for a Christian or others, to say Muhammad's name when speaking with a Muslim IYO?

 

[BetteTheRed]

I'll add to that - is (p) an accepted shorthand for "peace be upon him"?

 

[Mystic]

The Mecca phase of the development of the Quran exudes tolerance. But radical Islam points to the violent jihadist Medina phase of the Quran for justification for terrorist jihad and buttresses their perspective from the Hadith, oral traditions about Muhammad's words and deeds. Some scholars think the radicals better capture the spirit of Muhammad's teaching and example. I would like to hear counter-arguments against that perspective.

 

[Luce NDs]

The Mecca phase of the development of the Quran exudes tolerance. But radical Islam points to the violent jihadist Medina phase of the Quran for justification for terrorist jihad and buttresses their perspective from the Hadith, oral traditions about Muhammad's words and deeds. Some scholars think the radicals better capture the spirit of Muhammad's teaching and example. I would like to hear counter-arguments against that perspective.

Tis only a mental construct to generate a hard mind ... with the mine 'd being primarily imaginative ... that'd be out 've the question for unshakable religious orders of magnitude ... the genteel touch prevails and thus we escape the hard situation ... of form and volumes ... into the intuit 've ! Is that a' niche-like icon ...

 

[Delightful Life]

Inannawhimsey, can you explain more how you came to the conclusion that Prophet Muhammad (p) is, by objective standards, a monster, as you say? Please be as frank and transparent as possible, I have every trust that if this conversation is conducted with sincerity it will lead to the best.

Many thanks.

@Jihad Mohammad Hyjazie,

Firstly, let me give you some context. I consider myself to be very open minded -- one of my hobbies is to explore and collect points of view -- I also love seeing how other people worship -- I have been to many different congregations & religious ceremonies -- I really love people -- we are all so silly and wonderful & amazing. I also have a bias for religions that have a built-in sense of humour & I think that a lot of problems in the world come from people taking their world, themselves, etc way too solemnly. I also believe that everyone has certain inalienable rights that aren't given by our governments. I also believe that one of those inalienable rights is the right to religion; religion I believe is an integral part to humanity, it provides some essential meat. I also believe that ideas and thoughts are different than acts...thoughts & ideas shouldn't be illegal or punished, but acts should be. I used to think that all ideas are equal, but I'm seeing that not all ideas (and that includes systems of governance, countries, economic methods, etc) are equal, some ideas work better than others, but that countries have sovereignty and ability of freedom of thought & ideas are a part of our human inalienable rights. Whew!


So, good thing that there is a bounty of historical information on Mohammad. Following is a non-exhaustive list

In a mere 10 years of time, Mohammad commanded or led some 65 military campaigns

When Mohammad conquered Mecca, he ran across 2 slave girls singing what was interpreted as a satirical song aboot Mohammad.

How did he deal with this? He asked to warriors to murder them. When the girls tried escaping, one of the warriors ran down the girls and trampled them to death with his horse. Mohammad then had the owner of the slave girls put to death.


After he conquered Mecca, his old scribe who was responsible for copying down Mohammad's utterances from Allah (who did a kind of shorthand -- ferexample, when Mohammad would describe Allah the all-knowing & the All-Graceful he would write Allah the all-merciful & compassionate) noticed that after a while, Mohammad would change his utterances to what he the scribe had been writing. The scribe reasoned that if Mohammad were getting these utterances from Allah himself, Allah wouldn't change the wording and Mohammad would know the original wording. So the scribe ended up leaving Islam and going back to the religion of his fathers. Once Mohammad got back into Mecca, he made a hit list of those who must be killed. Guess one person who was on the hit list? The scribe hid with his brother or brother-in-law until things died down. His brother/brother-in-law then begged for mercy from Mohammad. After much pleading & Mohammad silence, Mohammad said that the scribe is forgiven. When he left the room Mohammad turned on his followers, very angry, asking them why they didn't cut the brother/brother-in-law down, why didn't you cut off his head? One of his men said that they weren't given orders to cut off his head. Mohammad replied that they don't need a sign from him to cut off the head of somebody who is a critic of mine*


In Medina, before Mohammad took Mecca, there were some poets who objected to Mohammad's way of rewarding those who were faithful to him (by taking people out on raids on camel caravans from Mecca to Syria & murdering a few people & stealing their loot). One of these poets was the daughter of Marwan who had 5 children. One of Mohammad's warriors went to her home, taking a baby and murdered the daughter. In the morning the warrior was afraid that he had done this without explicit orders from Mohammad; upon meeting with Mohammad, Mohammad said that the world will no more care aboot this woman than it cares aboot two goats butting their heads together.


In the Battle of Badr Allah tells Mohammad It behooveth not a prophet that he should have captives until he hath greatly slaughtered in the land

Mohammad declared that Jews are a race without understanding...transformed into apes and swine...Evil indeed are their works...

When Mohammad attacked the Jewish Banu Quaraiza and they surrendered, all the men were beheaded, the women and children taken as slaves, and the property distributed as booty.



A study was done with a big sample size (some 10,000 people in 10 different countries) looking at the odds of scapegoating (which is positively correlated with dogmatism, inflexibility of belief & commitment to violence); they broke up the groups among Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Other, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Non-religious, Atheists & Agnostics. The groups with the highest potential to scapegoat were the Catholics, Orthodox & Atheists. The groups with the lowest were the Buddhists, Hindus & Muslims. There's a lot of nuance. There's even been studies looking at scapegoating but to see if things like prayer & church attendance affect it...but that's enough for now, I think :3


So I don't think that this historical information on Mohammad means that Islam is wrong or evil...I believe religions are like pretty much like every other tool of humanity -- they can be used for both good and evil, right and wrong. The above historicity of Mohammad shows that what ISIL/DAESH/VZTP is doing isn't different from what Mohammad believed and acted like. & I understand how powerful beliefs can be and in-group cohesion.


*This illuminates the strange conversation between a reporter and one of the Charlie Hebdo murderers, Cherif Kouachi, he said "We are not killers. We are defenders of the prophet, we don’t kill women. We kill no one. We defend the prophet. If someone offends the prophet then there is no problem, we can kill him. We don’t kill women. We are not like you. You are the ones killing women and children in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. This isn’t us. We have an honour code in Islam."

 

[BetteTheRed]

Interestingly enough, are any of those activities any better or worse than some of God's instructions to the Israelites as they made their way to the land promised to them?

 

[Mystic]

When the Medina phase of the Quran's formation is distinguished from the more tolerant Mecca phase, Inana's portrayal of Muhammad's example seems sadly r einforced, especially when complemented by the Hadith.

 

[Luce NDs]

Doth Mo'hammed reflect God's brute hostility in the west ... if the two would come together they could honour death itself and put an end to this humorless place ... except for rare exceptions like the cranks here as my friends. Thus the dais E a dais thing ... pop ups?

Then one has to ponder the eastern terms of Buddha .. that passing elephant in the rheum giving Shadow for the fleecing of something or other on the under bel lies ... that thing that bugs all beasts?

In understanding of the myth one sees some understanding of ridiculous brutality and loss of wisdom ... some label this philosophy some say it is de ath ND of reality when facing abstract virtues ... let the cranking begin ... thus the jaq'd iteration as littering of the unseen mine ... an ole in space thingy ... be the death of meis ... as I leave hooting ... donne carve'n hooters?

A mythset in the mire a michi as a flowering item of interest ...

 

[Delightful Life]

Interestingly enough, are any of those activities any better or worse than some of God's instructions to the Israelites as they made their way to the land promised to them?

It's interesting to see how many of these authoritarians/totalitarians have similar outlooks and immorality -- I'll take human immorality any time over Deific immorality -- human immorality one can potentially mitigate, Deific immorality, well, that'd be like fighting universe itself :3

(brings up something from the TV show Angel -- the show was aboot freedom of choice not necessarily winning -- the show's ending summed it up -- they had finally got to a point when they had fought past all the impossibly powerful & immoral forces in their world and then had to face essentially the deities of their reality with no hope of winning or surviving; and still they fought on, as their world ended...)

The main difference between Mohammad's immorality & the g_d of the Israelites' immorality is that Mohammad was a real historical figure & the g_d of the OT, well...that's a bit more...indeterminate :3

 

[Delightful Life]

When the Medina phase of the Quran's formation is distinguished from the more tolerant Mecca phase, Inana's portrayal of Muhammad's example seems sadly r einforced, especially when complemented by the Hadith.

Monsters & various immoral & unethical people can and have and will continue to be able to produce beautiful even important works

And why I love how humanity can make whatever belief, idea, etc they encounter their own -- they hack it, edit it, fool around with it...like humanity always does & always will, no matter how many solemn hair-shirt wearers may try to stop them

Have fun, people!

 

[BetteTheRed]

The main difference between Mohammad's immorality & the g_d of the Israelites' immorality is that Mohammad was a real historical figure & the g_d of the OT, well...that's a bit more...indeterminate :3

I'm not really getting how that's much different except that Mohammed's reality is a little more provable TO US due to a coincidence of the dimension of time. Note that Jesus' reality is slightly more suspect, Moses', then Abraham's even less provable.

 

[Mystic]

Bette, can it be that it has never been explained to you how Jesus and His miracles can be connected with eyewitness testimony?

 

[Luce NDs]

Is deific it immortality long living considering that Mohammed arose during the Dark Ages ... and thus noir form of passion and even since we beat ourselves to Noel about it? Thus the immortal nothing, love ... while in an opposing subversive domain an immortal bottom lye'n ... a cat to start with wile howling in dedark?

Did you hear the rabbit ...