Revisiting Mark

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
So you would not use "unfaithful" to describe a cheating romantic partner, which is the most common usage in modern English? Because it definitely means breaking faith in that context. Sounds like we are up against the differing natures of English and Greek again, though. I run into it with Chinese, too.

Maybe a question to ask is: What am I? Unbelieving or unfaithful? Or both?
 
Reflection for today -----People were astounded and said, "He has done everything well. He even makes the deaf hear and the mute speak." Mark 7: 37 NET


I say ----This is taken from Jesus healing a deaf mute man -----Jesus tells them to say nothing about the healing but they don't listen and do tell others -----

What do we think makes them disobey Jesus order not to tell others ?-------
 
I love the bit about "He has done everything well". Sounds like they are talking about a straight A student or successful entrepreneur more so than a miracle worker. It's a bit understated given what has just happened.

unsafe said:
What do we think makes them disobey Jesus order not to tell others ?
Click to expand...

I think they are just so overcome by what has happened that they have to talk about it. I have had that happen after reading or listening to something that really moved me so I imagine it would be even more so after a miraculous healing.
 
Mendalla ---you said -----Maybe a question to ask is: What am I? Unbelieving or unfaithful? Or both?

I say ---only you can answer that question -----this is what the Greek says for unbelief -----

Strong's Concordance
apistia: unbelief
Original Word: ἀπιστία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apistia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-is-tee'-ah)
Definition: unbelief
Usage: unbelief, unfaithfulness, distrust.
 
Mendalla said:
I love the bit about "He has done everything well".
Click to expand...
A simple but powerful line!

It immediately reminded me of God saying, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

I also thought about Jesus growing in favor with God and people, as it says in Luke's gospel.
 
Been meditating on 14-15 and subsequent.

To all, he says:

Mark 7:14-15 said:
14 Then he called the crowd again and said to them, “Listen to me, all of you, and understand: 15 there is nothing outside a person that by going in can defile, but the things that come out are what defile.”[f]
Click to expand...

And then Jesus expands on it:

Mark 7:17-23 said:
17 When he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 He said to them, “Then do you also fail to understand? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile, 19 since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “It is what comes out of a person that defiles. 21 For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
Click to expand...

If evil comes from within, not from outside, does that mean we are born evil, not made evil (original sin??)? Does it mean the whole "Satanic Panic" thing is off base because reading Harry Potter and D&D can't make us evil if evil is not already there in our heart?

It also raises a perspective on the problem of evil: God makes the world around us good but evil comes from within us. It seems to me that it is a passage that needs to be considered in a Christian understanding of theodicy.
 
This statement here -----He has done everything well.

I say
For Me this sentence is significant because it shows that these people have a settled conviction about Jesus --they were greatly amazed ---and reminds us of Genesis 1:31 when God creates this world and all that is in it and says ----------

Genesis 1:31(GW)
31 And God saw everything that he had made and that it was very good.


I say ---and also it says that because they say-- He has done everything well --it is giving Glory to God for the healing of this man ----to sum it up ---- Everything God does He does well ---
 
Is the lesson primarily about the dietary laws (which Jesus seems ready to relax) or is it about the nature of evil?

I had always supposed it to be about Jewish dietary laws & I was likely taught this in Sunday School. The last time we encountered this passage, others thought just the opposite.
 
paradox3 said:
Is the lesson primarily about the dietary laws (which Jesus seems ready to relax) or is it about the nature of evil?

I had always supposed it to be about Jewish dietary laws & I was likely taught this in Sunday School.
Click to expand...

It starts that way but if you read the bolded text, Jesus seems to extend beyond that specific case. He is saying, to me, that regulation of the external world matters less than regulation of the internal one.
 
paradox3 said:
Yes that's true. But is Jesus primarily making the point that the dietary laws are unnecessary?
Click to expand...

As I said, initially yes. The way he words though makes me think it abrogates other religious regulations, too. Note that the original argument wasn't about eating but about washing. Which is kind of sad because there are sound, non-religious reasons for that as we know all too well. But I guess the point is they exist for hygienic reasons, not religious ones.
 
21 For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

How do the items on this list correspond to the ten commandments? There are a few obvious connections, no?

Interesting that Jesus has just disputed tradition vs God's law with the Pharisees. The Pharisees want to know why Jesus and his disciples don't follow the traditions of washing their hands before eating or the rules about cleaning the dishes. Jesus counters that the Pharisees do not follow the law about honoring their mothers and fathers. This is one of the commandments, of course.

Jesus got pretty fussed earlier in Mark about Sabbath observance which is another of the commandments.

Will give this some more thought.
 
Mendalla -----in order to get the jest of what is being put forth in what you posted you really need to start at the beginning of the chapter ----

My view here ----and posted scripture

This is from the NKJV ----

Mark 7 (NKJV)
Defilement Comes from Within

I say -----The Pharisees were upset at the Disciples for not washing their hands before eating ----- Jesus then tells them that nothing outside can defile a person ----it is what is in the persons heart that is spoken out word that can defile a person -----So the Pharisees were speaking what was in their heart which was negative toward the Disciples for not following their man made rules -----the Pharisees were being hypocrites -----they were white washed on the outside but defiled on the inside ------They loved God with their lips but not their heart and their spoken words showed that -----

I say ------Jesus then calls the band together and tells them a parable -----verses 14-16

14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If[f] anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”


I say ----The evil within that is being put forth here starts in the heart and minds of men so evil thoughts start within one's heart and mind and if you don't cast out the evil though you will carry out that evil thought ----

The rampage in Nova Scotia is a perfect example of this ---this man planned an evil plot in his heart and mind first -----and he maintained that evil thought --he could have cast that thought out of his mind and said ----I may think that but I can't and won't do that so I will forget about it and put it out of my mind -----but he didn't he continued to meditate on his evil plot and when we do that for a time our body will start to move to carry out the evil thought -----

I say -----God's word cautions us about not casting out evil thoughts and God gave us an imagination to use for Good not evil ---which is very powerful as we actually see the evil unfolding in our minds before it is carried out ------if we don't cast down our bad images in our imagination again it can affect us to the point of carrying out a bad plot -----again we have the choice to stop the thought or not -----
​

2 Corinthians 10:5 ►
​
Parallel Verses
King James Version
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;




I say ----Now these verses say this -----Jesus is talking evil thoughts ------

20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
 
paradox3 said:
Interesting that Jesus has just disputed tradition vs God's law with the Pharisees.
Click to expand...

Very. He seems very much of the opinion that the Pharisees "law" is based more on their ways than on God's. Which comes out in other places as well. And, again, his approach seems to move away from strict legalism and keeping of tradition to focussing more broadly, e.g. teaching about the source of defilement and evil being within. Similar again to "the Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath".
 
Just for fun, I tried to see how the list from Mark 7: 21 and the ten commandments might mesh.

Mark 7: 21 fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly

Ten Commandments list
  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall make no idols.
  3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
  4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
  5. Honor your father and your mother
  6. You shall not murder. murder
  7. You shall not commit adultery. adultery, fornication (questionable), licentiousness (questionable)
  8. You shall not steal. theft
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. slander, deceit (possibly)
  10. You shall not covet. avarice (possibly), envy
I see no clear place for: wickedness, pride, folly.

Any thoughts?

Jesus does not appear to refer to any other of the 613 laws of the Torah.

We have already read about Jesus and commandments #4 and #5 in Mark's gospel.
I'm off to check something from Matthew now.
 
In the sermon on the mount, Jesus expanded upon commandments #6 and #7 as follows:

Matthew 5:21-22 New English Translation (NET Bible)

21 “You have heard that it was said to an older generation, ‘Do not murder,’ and ‘whoever murders will be subjected to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.

Matthew 5:27-28 New English Translation (NET Bible)

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top