Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
- Status
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I think so. It shows in his constant challenges to establishment figures like the scribes, too. And it's very much in the Jewish prophetic tradition. Isaiah and others were also ultimately calling people "back to God" and away from human practices that had "corrupted" them. If you're going to ditch the Saviour and Son narratives of Christianity, Jesus plays very well as a reform-minded Hebrew prophet.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
We have a good sense of where Jesus stands on the 10 commandments, I think, or at least #4 - #10.
His well-known line about loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself comes from Deuteronomy, AFAIK.
And we are seeing in today's text a willingness to relax the Jewish dietary laws.
Do we know where Jesus stands on other aspects of Torah observance? Or are the gospels silent on this?
Later, with Paul, there will be debate about circumcision but I am not aware Jesus ever addressed this issue.
His well-known line about loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself comes from Deuteronomy, AFAIK.
And we are seeing in today's text a willingness to relax the Jewish dietary laws.
Do we know where Jesus stands on other aspects of Torah observance? Or are the gospels silent on this?
Later, with Paul, there will be debate about circumcision but I am not aware Jesus ever addressed this issue.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Interesting point. Wonder if that's why it became a bone of contention in the early Church. Had Jesus said something about it, maybe that matter would have been settled from the start.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
When you're God Incarnate, you're probably immune to them so tend to forget about these things.
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Well, now that you mention it...
Actually, the whole defilement thing is what caught my attention the most, which is why I brought it up, but we still have this evening if we want to talk about her.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
The Syrophoenician woman is one of my biblical heroes. Can you imagine how much courage it would have taken for her to confront Jesus? I know His townspeople rejected him and his family thought he was out of his mind, but she was in a more vulnerable position as she sought healing for her daughter. Who is more vulnerable than a mother with a sick child?
She appealed to him through both reason and emotion and he responded to her with thoughtful compassion. Kudos to Jesus, too!
She appealed to him through both reason and emotion and he responded to her with thoughtful compassion. Kudos to Jesus, too!
Well it sounds as if Jesus doesn't want to heal a gentile, is this because most of his ministry was to the Jewish at this time? Are the "children" in the storey, those who are Jewish? And by agreeing with her that she and her little daughter are "dogs" worthy of crumbs, and she knows her place....is that the reason he heals her daughter? Or do we credit Him for healing a gentile?
unsafe
Well-Known Member
My view
The Middle part of this scripture Mark 7 is so very important --This shows God's Agape -- Grace and Mercy that He has for all people who pursue Him in reverence and Faith ----This woman was a Greek not a Jew -----she perused Him diligently into the house where He was at ----
We have to remember here that the Jews were God's chosen race and Jesus came under that and His purpose was first to the Israelites not the Gentiles ----This woman's reverence for Jesus and Faith in Him to heal her daughter was rewarded even though she was not a member of God's Chosen -----
Again this shows that she put her Right Faith into Right Action ----she pursued Him ----she humbled herself --she fell at His feet and she ask for His help -----so she had the right attitude and the right faith in who Jesus was ------she believed and didn't douby -----
I say ---This is the scripture ---Amp Bible ---Great Piece of Scripture
The Syrophoenician Woman
24 Jesus got up and left there and went to the region of Tyre [and Sidon, the coastal area of Phoenicia]. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know about it; but it was impossible for Him to be hidden [from the public]. 25 Instead, after hearing about Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. 26 Now the woman was a Gentile (Greek), a [g]Syrophoenician by nationality. And she kept pleading with Him to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27 He was saying to her, “First let the children [of Israel] be fed, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the pet dogs (non-Jews).”
28 But she replied, “Yes, Lord, but even the pet dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
29 And He said to her, “Because of this answer [reflecting your humility and faith], go [knowing that your request is granted]; the demon has left your daughter [permanently].” 30 And returning to her home, she found the child lying on the couch [relaxed and resting], the demon having gone.
My View
Verse 27 ----is the scripture where He tells her that He has come first for God's chosen --- verse 28-- is her right response--- she doesn't take offense to what Jesus says but she humbly accepts it and points out that even the non Jews under the table eat the chosen's crumbs -----Her heart was in the right place and so was her motive -----and she got the results -----
The Middle part of this scripture Mark 7 is so very important --This shows God's Agape -- Grace and Mercy that He has for all people who pursue Him in reverence and Faith ----This woman was a Greek not a Jew -----she perused Him diligently into the house where He was at ----
We have to remember here that the Jews were God's chosen race and Jesus came under that and His purpose was first to the Israelites not the Gentiles ----This woman's reverence for Jesus and Faith in Him to heal her daughter was rewarded even though she was not a member of God's Chosen -----
Again this shows that she put her Right Faith into Right Action ----she pursued Him ----she humbled herself --she fell at His feet and she ask for His help -----so she had the right attitude and the right faith in who Jesus was ------she believed and didn't douby -----
I say ---This is the scripture ---Amp Bible ---Great Piece of Scripture
The Syrophoenician Woman
24 Jesus got up and left there and went to the region of Tyre [and Sidon, the coastal area of Phoenicia]. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know about it; but it was impossible for Him to be hidden [from the public]. 25 Instead, after hearing about Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. 26 Now the woman was a Gentile (Greek), a [g]Syrophoenician by nationality. And she kept pleading with Him to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27 He was saying to her, “First let the children [of Israel] be fed, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the pet dogs (non-Jews).”
28 But she replied, “Yes, Lord, but even the pet dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
29 And He said to her, “Because of this answer [reflecting your humility and faith], go [knowing that your request is granted]; the demon has left your daughter [permanently].” 30 And returning to her home, she found the child lying on the couch [relaxed and resting], the demon having gone.
My View
Verse 27 ----is the scripture where He tells her that He has come first for God's chosen --- verse 28-- is her right response--- she doesn't take offense to what Jesus says but she humbly accepts it and points out that even the non Jews under the table eat the chosen's crumbs -----Her heart was in the right place and so was her motive -----and she got the results -----
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I am not sure I have much to add to the comments from @paradox3 and @unsafe but here's some thoughts. She seems to recognize and accept her second class status in the Jewish world but at the same time, she gives a Jesus a lesson in seeing past that status through her display of faith and clever way of turning Jesus analogy around. She does not so much outsmart him as make an impression. Another occasion where Jesus seems a bit off guard, too. I am not sure he was expecting that kind of response when he tried to brush her off.
It's called kissing ass so your daughter has a chance to survive.....IMO
I notice that Jesus doesn't ask the gentiles he heals to convert to Judaism....do you suppose he's okay with people worshipping God in their own way, after all it seems to be a part of Judaism to not recruit? Prevents him from becoming a rock star(idol) too? Maybe that's why he doesn't want them to tell anybody (except in John) because he would rather they just praise God and be thankful?
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
We have a very take on this story, Waterfall. I don't see either humility or humiliation coming into play.
I see a very Jewish Jesus who has just been arguing with the religious leaders of his day and addressing the crowds. He has been calling for faith renewal and a refocus on God's law. He leaves the area and goes into a house in the region of Tyre. He does not want anyone to know, likely because he is seeking a time of rest.
But he is not able to escape notice and along comes the SP woman who falls at his feet. She is clearly an outsider and probably takes him by surprise. "You are no concern of mine," he seems to be saying. Being Jesus, he expresses this as a parable of sorts, "Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." In response, the woman enters the parable and says, "Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table eat the children's crumbs."
Jesus is persuaded and opens himself to a wider ministry. "Because you have said this, you may go. The demon has left your daughter."
I see Jesus growing in compassion and wisdom. The more I consider this little story, the more I like it. The woman is not of the same faith tradition as Jesus, yet she trusts he will be able to help her.
I wonder what the bread symbolizes.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
In the synoptic gospels, Jesus is usually asking people to "tell no one" but there are a few exceptions.
I have always thought Jesus was wary of attracting more attention because the crowds pressed in and overwhelmed him. He also knew he was in growing danger.
Wanting the praise for God is another possibility.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Mark 8
Another large hungry crowd is fed miraculously. This time 4000 are fed with 7 loaves of bread and a few small fish. Seven baskets of broken pieces of bread are left over.
The Pharisees argue with Jesus and ask for a sign from heaven. No sign is to be given.
Jesus tells the disciples to beware the yeast of the Pharisees and the yeast of Herod. They do not understand the references to bread.
A blind man is healed in two stages. At first, the man says that people look like trees walking.
Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ.
Jesus predicts his death and resurrection.
Jesus calls to the crowd to follow him. If they are ashamed of him now, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory.
For reflection:
Regaining his sight, he said, "I see people but they look like trees walking." (Mark 8: 24 NET)
Another large hungry crowd is fed miraculously. This time 4000 are fed with 7 loaves of bread and a few small fish. Seven baskets of broken pieces of bread are left over.
The Pharisees argue with Jesus and ask for a sign from heaven. No sign is to be given.
Jesus tells the disciples to beware the yeast of the Pharisees and the yeast of Herod. They do not understand the references to bread.
A blind man is healed in two stages. At first, the man says that people look like trees walking.
Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ.
Jesus predicts his death and resurrection.
Jesus calls to the crowd to follow him. If they are ashamed of him now, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory.
For reflection:
Regaining his sight, he said, "I see people but they look like trees walking." (Mark 8: 24 NET)
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Because this is a short text, here it is for us to consider:
Mark 8:22-26 New English Translation (NET Bible)
22 Then they came to Bethsaida. They brought a blind man to Jesus and asked him to touch him. 23 He took the blind man by the hand and brought him outside of the village. Then he spit on his eyes, placed his hands on his eyes and asked, “Do you see anything?” 24 Regaining his sight he said, “I see people, but they look like trees walking.” 25 Then Jesus placed his hands on the man’s eyes again. And he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly. 26 Jesus sent him home, saying, “Do not even go into the village.”
Why did Jesus take the man out of his village to restore his sight?
Why did it take two steps for Jesus to completely heal this man?
Why is he told not to go into the village afterwards? Is this in keeping with Jesus' frequent instruction to "tell no one"? Or is something else at play?
Mark 8:22-26 New English Translation (NET Bible)
22 Then they came to Bethsaida. They brought a blind man to Jesus and asked him to touch him. 23 He took the blind man by the hand and brought him outside of the village. Then he spit on his eyes, placed his hands on his eyes and asked, “Do you see anything?” 24 Regaining his sight he said, “I see people, but they look like trees walking.” 25 Then Jesus placed his hands on the man’s eyes again. And he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly. 26 Jesus sent him home, saying, “Do not even go into the village.”
Why did Jesus take the man out of his village to restore his sight?
Why did it take two steps for Jesus to completely heal this man?
Why is he told not to go into the village afterwards? Is this in keeping with Jesus' frequent instruction to "tell no one"? Or is something else at play?
- Status