Revisiting Mark

[unsafe]

The Bread in this scripture Mark 7:27 ---in the Greek ----this is the Spiritual meaning ------

HELPS Word-studies
740 ártos – properly, bread; (figuratively) divine provision; all the sustenance God supplies to yielded believers scene-by-scene to live in His preferred-will (2307 /thélēma).

 

[paradox3]

Could the story of the SP woman be telling us that even the crumbs of this bread are nourishing?

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 ---you said ----Could the story of the SP woman be telling us that even the crumbs of this bread are nourishing

My view
I think if the person has good soil in their center area the crumbs will take hold and will nourish the person to want more crumbs ----

 

[paradox3]

I think if the person has good soil in their center area the crumbs will take hold and will nourish the person to want more crumbs ----

You're mixing your metaphors here, unsafe.

The good soil in the center area probably fits better with the seed parables. But I like the point you are making very much. Being fed on a few of those crumbs can nourish us enough that we want more of the bread. That makes complete sense to me.

And yes, we need to be receptive to the nourishment in the crumbs or they won't do much for us. Makes sense as well.

 

[Redbaron]

In the reference Bible I'm using, the footnotes point to this (ch. 8, vss. 22-26) as a bookend, bracketing from this point to the end of ch. 10, where Bartimaeus has his sight restored. It stands as a symbol for the disciples, who begin to 'see' but still don't 'get it'. At least, not till later on. An example, later in ch.8, Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ. Then, when Jesus explains what the Christ will go through, Peter disagrees with what Jesus says. He sees, but doesn't yet 'get it' at all. Wonder how many occasions we think we 'see', but don't really understand what's going on..... more often than we'd care to admit....

 

[paradox3]

You just inspired me to pull out my study bible and take a look @Redbaron. I have a NIV study bible and I seldom use it. It is about 50% text and 50% commentary. For today's story, it offers that this second laying on of hands is unique in Jesus' healing ministry. It also seems to be unique to Mark.

The blind man, it suggests, had probably felt the trunks of trees as he stumbled around. Now he dimly sees something similar moving about.

 

[unsafe]

Now Mark 8 ----today's reflection verse ----24 He looked up and said, “I see people; they look like trees walking around.”

Very interesting Verse here -----my view

----in order to understand this we need to read the whole part of the Scripture in my view

It says that Jesus lead the man out of where he was -----

I say -----so Jesus it seems didn't want to have human praise and vain glory here ----He wanted this done in privacy ----

Jesus then spits on the man's eyes and then puts His hands on the man's eyes -----so why use spit -----is the question ?

I say ----Maybe the mans eyes were closed for a long time and Jesus used the Spit to open the eye???? -----

In ancient times it was thought that spit had healing properties ----read here
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-spit.html


----Then we see the man couldn't see clearly -----as todays reflection scripture tells us ---why wouldn't Jesus totally heal this man's sight immediately as he did with others ----Is there a Spiritual meaning here --


For me I say Yes -----for me this shows that our Spiritual enlightenment happens over time not right way as the more we read the word and Mature in our walk with Christ the message become clearer as are eyes are open more to comprehend the message ---

Jesus then again lays His hands on the man's eyes a second time -----and the man sees clearly -----and He sends the man on his way -----the man is healed -----


----This is a piece on Spittle here ---

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
SPIT; SPITTLE
https://biblehub.com/topical/s/spittle.htm

spit, spit'-l (yaraq, roq; (em)ptuo): Spitting in a person's face indicated gross contempt (Numbers 12:14 Deuteronomy 25:9 Job 30:10 Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67; Matthew 27:30, etc.); when performed by an unclean person it produced defilement (Leviticus 15:8) which necessitated washing the clothes and a bath. When David allowed his spittle (rir) to run down over his beard, it was his purpose to behave like a lunatic (1 Samuel 21:13). "Till I swallow down my spittle" (Job 7:19) has the same import as the English "in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Corinthians 15:52).

Spittle was used by our Lord in restoring sight and speech (Mark 7:33 John 9:6) as signifying His will to cure. It was a widespread belief that spittle, accompanied with magical formulas, possessed medicinal qualities. "Oil" possessed a similar virtue. (Mark 6:13 James 5:14).

 

[Lastpointe]

I find it interesting that some of the cures happen on their own, a touch of the woman, a command to get up...... yet this one requires work , mixing of mud and spit and the two steps to cure

symbolizing perhaps the work we are required to do to open our own eyes to see Jesus?

 

[Mendalla]

yet this one requires work , mixing of mud and spit and the two steps to cure

There's an earlier healing that had similar steps but worked on the first try. I did notice an article, when I was searching for something else Mark-related, on how Jesus actually seems to be practicing a form of magic at times with these rituals, even using ritual words and phrases. Look at the healing of the deaf-mute man in Mark 7.

33 He took him aside in private, away from the crowd, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spat and touched his tongue. 34 Then looking up to heaven, he sighed and said to him, “Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.” 35 And immediately his ears were opened, his tongue was released, and he spoke plainly.

 

[paradox3]

Mark 9

Jesus goes up the mountain with Peter, James and John and is transformed before them. His clothes become brilliant white. They are joined briefly by Moses and Elijah. God's voice is heard from heaven, saying, "This is my one dear. Son, listen to him!" As they descend the mountain, Jesus orders the others to tell no one what they have seen until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.

The disciples are unable to heal a young boy. He is possessed by a spirit which causes convulsions. The boy's father asks Jesus to have compassion on them and help if he is able. Seeming to refer to himself, Jesus answers, "All things are possible if one believes." The boy's father cries out, "I believe; help my unbelief!"

Jesus rebukes the unclean spirit and it comes out of the boy. The disciples question why they couldn't cast it out themselves and Jesus responds, "This kind can only come out by prayer."

Jesus again predicts his death and resurrection. He counsels the disciples and instructs them to be at peace with each other.

For reflection:

Immediately the father of the boy cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!" (Mark 9: 24 NET)

 

[paradox3]

Mark 9:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This is a biblical verse I remember from childhood. "Help thou mine unbelief" was one of my mom's favorite phrases from the bible.

 

[paradox3]

In the story of the young boy possessed by the spirit (sure sounds like epilepsy, but I digress), is Jesus chiding the disciples for not praying enough?

What do you make of the boy's father asking for help with his unbelief? It is interesting he doesn't call it "doubt". Is it possible to have both belief and unbelief? Was the man just saying "I believe" to appease Jesus or did he both believe and not believe?

Doubt and belief can co-exist peacefully, I am persuaded that this is so. I am less sure about belief and unbelief.

The transfiguration story is a good one but we have discussed parallel versions of it on other threads. If anyone would like to talk about it again, though, please go ahead.

The counsel given to the disciples at the end of the chapter is not very clear to me. Any ideas about what it all means?

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 ---you say ----Doubt and belief can co-exist peacefully

If I can ask ----Can you give an example of how you see these 2 co-exsting peacefully together ----

My View
I say for me ---Doubt for me is a lack of conviction ----of wavering --of being of 2 minds -----sitting on the fence of belief -----so your not at piece ---your in confusion as to your belief -----in my opinion

It is like we want to doubt but also believe ------liken to us wanting our cake and eat it to -----

So I am a little perplexed at you comment ------so if you cam give an example of your thoughts on this ---it might help me understand how you see your statement -----

 

[Mendalla]

paradox3 ---you say ----Doubt and belief can co-exist peacefully

If I can ask ----Can you give an example of how you see these 2 co-exsting peacefully together ----

My View
I say for me ---Doubt for me is a lack of conviction ----of wavering --of being of 2 minds -----sitting on the fence of belief -----so your not at piece ---your in confusion as to your belief -----in my opinion

It is like we want to doubt but also believe ------liken to us wanting our cake and eat it to -----

So I am a little perplexed at you comment ------so if you cam give an example of your thoughts on this ---it might help me understand how you see your statement -----

One can have an unshaken belief in a God but have doubts about specific tenets of one's faith, for instance. Doubt is not an all or nothing proposition. One can believe in one thing and doubt another. Lots of people believe in God and Jesus as the Son of God but have doubts or questions about what that means for living their lives. That's part of the reason bible studies happen.

 

[Mendalla]

And keep in mind that if I didn't have doubt about where I am now, I wouldn't be here looking at the Gospels again. Doubt can lead people away from a faith, but it can also lead them to/back to it. IOW, doubt can work in your favour, too.

 

[paradox3]

paradox3 ---you say ----Doubt and belief can co-exist peacefully

If I can ask ----Can you give an example of how you see these 2 co-exsting peacefully together ----

It's a paradox, for sure. I could talk about my personal faith journey but that would be completely anecdotal.

From the bible, I think of Thomas. Over the centuries the church has vilified him for his doubt. The nickname "Doubting Thomas" has never been a compliment anywhere. Some of us were just talking about him recently over on the Lectionary thread.

Thomas was bold in his questioning of Jesus and in a way, he reminds me of the Syrophoenician woman from Mark 7. I see him as brave and I think he was demonstrating a great deal of trust in Jesus. Again, I am reminded of the SP woman.

My study bible gives me that while Thomas is usually known for his doubting, he was also capable of great devotion and courage. In the Lazarus story, it is Thomas who suggests willingness to die, too. Here is the relevant verse:

John 11:16 New English Translation (NET Bible)
16 So Thomas (called Didymus) said to his fellow disciples, “Let us go too, so that we may die with him.”

 

[paradox3]

One can have an unshaken belief in a God but have doubts about specific tenets of one's faith, for instance. Doubt is not an all or nothing proposition. One can believe in one thing and doubt another.

Yes, and if we think about building our personal theologies, questioning has got to be part of that. Otherwise we are just accepting the authority of another person or institution.

 

[Mendalla]

Doubt could be the Spirit moving us towards or away from something.

 

[unsafe]

But here is the thing ---Thomas doubted until he saw and touched only then did he believe -----his doubt didn't bring him to the believing --the seeing and touching brought the belief ------not the doubt -----

Doubt is a negative word ----Belief is a positive word ----so for the way I see it you can 't be negative and positive at the same time ----your either in doubt or your in belief ------you either think negative or you think positive --

You can either believe that God exists or you can doubt that God exists ---so they can't co exist and bring peace is my understanding -----

Doubt as far as Faith goes is wavering Faith -----true Faith never wavers ---true Faith is steadfast ------

Here is what I am saying ------in this Scripture it says God WILL supply your needs ------

Philippians 4:19 (NIV)
19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.

I say
So If I doubt that what God has promised here will happen then ----I am not in belief of it -----I am not trusting that God will do as He says ----Now if I were to know and trust a person who has given me proof that God did supply this persons with their need when they needed it -----my doubt may become belief ------so again my doubt is not what made me believe ---it was the knowing and trusting the person who showed me the proof of her belief in the Scripture worked for her -----

 

[paradox3]

Doubt could be the Spirit moving us towards or away from something.

It could be part of discernment, too.