paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
I am happy to leave the judgement about who is a believer and who is an unbeliever up to God. And to leave it to God to figure out how much this even matters.
Bible Study Thread: Luke
- Thread starter paradox3
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
- Status
The word is God and the Word does Judge us -----it judges our thoughts and intentions of our heart ------Just to clarify
Should not your first, "word" there be capitalized. In the beginning was the Word. The Word existed, had been in existence since eternity's reaches. The Word was in the beginning. "Word," or "Logos," is a Biblical designation for God's second person, for Jesus. He existed when no part of creation existed. He's the Word which God spoke from eternity, God-begotten from eternity.
We are, however I did want to address @unsafe's most recent comment. The way it was worded ("The word is God") reads as if she believes the Bible to be God.
Let's get back to Luke.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Summary: Luke 6: 20 - 26
Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
Blessed are you who are hungry, for you will be filled.
Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
Blessed are you when people hate you on account of the Son of Man. You will receive your reward in heaven.
Woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your consolation.
Woe to you who are full now, for you will be hungry.
Woe to you who are laughing now, for you will mourn and weep.
Woe to you when all speak well of you, for that is what their ancestors did to the false prophets.
Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
Blessed are you who are hungry, for you will be filled.
Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
Blessed are you when people hate you on account of the Son of Man. You will receive your reward in heaven.
Woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your consolation.
Woe to you who are full now, for you will be hungry.
Woe to you who are laughing now, for you will mourn and weep.
Woe to you when all speak well of you, for that is what their ancestors did to the false prophets.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Reflection: Luke 6: 20 - 26
Here we have the opening to Luke's sermon on the plain. In yesterday's text we saw Jesus coming down from the mountain to a level place, with a great multitude around him.
And the teaching begins. I am so much more familiar with the Beatitudes from Matthew's gospel, this text is unexpected. There are several similarities, of course, but I am not planning to compare the two accounts. Rather I will see what these six verses have to tell me today. Anyone following these gospel threads has likely noticed me slowing my pace down quite a bit.
The structure of the text is interesting. Four blessings ending with the one which has people hating you for Jesus' sake.
Four woes ending with the one which has people speaking well of you and implying you are a false prophet.
Jesus has a way of turning everything upside-down, doesn't he?
This text reminds me a lot of Ecclesiastes 3: 1 - 8. "For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven . . . "
Here we have the opening to Luke's sermon on the plain. In yesterday's text we saw Jesus coming down from the mountain to a level place, with a great multitude around him.
And the teaching begins. I am so much more familiar with the Beatitudes from Matthew's gospel, this text is unexpected. There are several similarities, of course, but I am not planning to compare the two accounts. Rather I will see what these six verses have to tell me today. Anyone following these gospel threads has likely noticed me slowing my pace down quite a bit.
The structure of the text is interesting. Four blessings ending with the one which has people hating you for Jesus' sake.
Four woes ending with the one which has people speaking well of you and implying you are a false prophet.
Jesus has a way of turning everything upside-down, doesn't he?
This text reminds me a lot of Ecclesiastes 3: 1 - 8. "For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven . . . "
Seeler
Well-Known Member
We discussed this reading from Luke at Bible study yesterday; it's part of the lectionary. We noted the contrast between the blessings and curses; have they seen the reverse of what we usually think.
The early Christians were accused of turning the world upside down. Perhaps they got this idea from the Beatitudes. Everything was turned over. The poor would receive the kingdom, but the rich already had their reward. The hungry would be fed, and those who were full would be empty.
The early Christians were accused of turning the world upside down. Perhaps they got this idea from the Beatitudes. Everything was turned over. The poor would receive the kingdom, but the rich already had their reward. The hungry would be fed, and those who were full would be empty.
Thoughts on Luke 6:20-26...
So deeply has the world's amalgamation gone with the Church that isolation of missionaries' rare today. Missionaries will rather keep mission to Sunday than to bear God's reproach, for Jesus' sake.
Martyrdom's spirit has left the Church. Denials of Christ are practiced, confessions for the missional principle's sake are rare.
When missionaries suffer religious persecution, they're following in the early martyrs' footsteps.
The rich missionary knows that they're God's steward. And they must give an account. Those that consider their wealth their own to do with as they please have the solace that they'll get.
Those that seek their desires' satisfaction now and are rewarded that they get all that they've longed for, will have to be eternally hungry.
Those that live by: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die, may assume a happiness in this world. But the time's coming when they must give an account of every moment. Then there'll be teeth's gnashing.
Liberal churches just preach to people with itching ears. Most of their pastors aim to confront no one, and to have no one hurt them.
So deeply has the world's amalgamation gone with the Church that isolation of missionaries' rare today. Missionaries will rather keep mission to Sunday than to bear God's reproach, for Jesus' sake.
Martyrdom's spirit has left the Church. Denials of Christ are practiced, confessions for the missional principle's sake are rare.
When missionaries suffer religious persecution, they're following in the early martyrs' footsteps.
The rich missionary knows that they're God's steward. And they must give an account. Those that consider their wealth their own to do with as they please have the solace that they'll get.
Those that seek their desires' satisfaction now and are rewarded that they get all that they've longed for, will have to be eternally hungry.
Those that live by: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die, may assume a happiness in this world. But the time's coming when they must give an account of every moment. Then there'll be teeth's gnashing.
Liberal churches just preach to people with itching ears. Most of their pastors aim to confront no one, and to have no one hurt them.
Carolla
wondering & wandering
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
The message to me is that God is with us in times of scarcity/persecution/challenge AND in times of perceived/relative abundance and that we should take care not lose sight of God in either case. It's not so much a message of judging who is better or worse individually or collectively.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Todays scripture
Luke 6:20-26 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
20 And solemnly lifting up His eyes on His disciples, He said: Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and to be envied) are you poor and lowly and afflicted (destitute of wealth, influence, position, and honor), for the kingdom of God is yours!
21 Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and ]to be envied) are you who hunger and seek with eager desire now, for you shall be filled and completely satisfied!
Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and to be envied) are you who weep and sob now, for you shall laugh!
22 Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and to be envied) are you when people despise (hate) you, and when they exclude and excommunicate you [as disreputable] and revile and denounce you and defame and cast out and spurn your name as evil (wicked) on account of the Son of Man.
23 Rejoice and be glad at such a time and exult and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is rich and great and strong and intense and abundant in heaven; for even so their forefathers treated the prophets.
unsafe says -----So we see here these Beatitudes are for the people who receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour ---These are NOT FOR the unbelieving in who Jesus was and what His Ministry was about which was Salvation -----
unsafe says -----this is the Greek word used for Blessed Here below ------and we need to Keep in mind that no one was Blessed in the Old Testament after the Law was introduce ------the Law increased the sin and therefore all were under the curse of the Law -----so these Beatitudes are for the coming future for those who Receive the free offer of Salvation ----
Strong's Concordance
makarios: blessed, happy
3107 makários (from mak-, "become long, large") – properly, when God extends His benefits (the advantages He confers); blessed.
3107 /makários ("blessed") describes a believer in enviable("fortunate") position from receiving God's provisions (favor) –
which (literally) extend ("make long, large") His grace (benefits).
This happens with receiving (obeying) the Lord's inbirthings of faith. Hence, faith (4102 /pístis) and 3107 (makários) are closely associated (Ro 4:5-7,14:22,23; Rev 14:12,13).
The woe's are to the Rich -----
24 But woe to (alas for) you who are rich abounding in material resources), for you already are receiving your consolation (the solace and sense of strengthening and cheer that come from prosperity) and have taken and enjoyed your comfort in full [having nothing left to be awarded you].
unsafe posting here from Matthew
unsafe says
If our Heart is in our Stuff then it is away from God
unsafe says ------God has a Purpose For His Money ----it is not to be stored up for ourselves ---it is to be used to advance God's Kingdom -God DOES NOT have a Problem with True Christ-ians having Wealth as Long as it is being used for His Purpose not ours ---God is our Provider for wealth not the World ------
unsafe Posting here from ------Deuteronomy ----We are to Rely on God to give us what He sees fit for us to help His Kingdom ----Notice ----God Gives Us ---THE ABILITY---POWER To Get Wealth ----We get the ability from God--- Not ourselves --There is Worldly Wealth and Godly Wealth
25 Woe to (alas for) you who are full now (completely filled, luxuriously gorged and satiated), for you shall hunger and suffer want! Woe to (alas for) you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep and wail!
unsafe says -----these people are full --and laugh cause they have filled their bellies with Perishable items --their cravings for more will consume them and they will suffer in their wants of more and more ------their Spirit is full of Greed and this will destroy them and in their end they will morn and wail as they reap their reward for their worldly desires ------
26 Woe to (alas for) you when everyone speaks fairly and handsomely of you and praises you, for even so their forefathers did to the false prophets.
unsafe says ----These People like their Popularity addressed ---they like to be Praised ---they like to be the center of Attention ----they like People to speak well of them ----their Ego has to be Fed ------
These people are in bondage to their Need to Feed on themselves -------Big Ego
unsafe says ------The latter part of this scripture here in verse 26--for even so their forefathers did to the false prophets.----Is saying the False Prophets Preached to please the People not God and by their Flattery and Lies found a method that gained them praise and good opinion by their church ------they didn't preach truth they preached to please the people ------
unsafe posting from Galatians -----
Galatians 1:10(NIV)
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
unsafe says ------We have to decide if we want to be in the Blessed or Woes side of the Beatitudes ---we can't be in Both -----we can't serve 2 Masters -----We have a Choice to Choose ----all up to us -----
Luke 6:20-26 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
20 And solemnly lifting up His eyes on His disciples, He said: Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and to be envied) are you poor and lowly and afflicted (destitute of wealth, influence, position, and honor), for the kingdom of God is yours!
21 Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and ]to be envied) are you who hunger and seek with eager desire now, for you shall be filled and completely satisfied!
Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and to be envied) are you who weep and sob now, for you shall laugh!
22 Blessed (happy—with life-joy and satisfaction in God’s favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition—and to be envied) are you when people despise (hate) you, and when they exclude and excommunicate you [as disreputable] and revile and denounce you and defame and cast out and spurn your name as evil (wicked) on account of the Son of Man.
23 Rejoice and be glad at such a time and exult and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is rich and great and strong and intense and abundant in heaven; for even so their forefathers treated the prophets.
unsafe says -----So we see here these Beatitudes are for the people who receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour ---These are NOT FOR the unbelieving in who Jesus was and what His Ministry was about which was Salvation -----
unsafe says -----this is the Greek word used for Blessed Here below ------and we need to Keep in mind that no one was Blessed in the Old Testament after the Law was introduce ------the Law increased the sin and therefore all were under the curse of the Law -----so these Beatitudes are for the coming future for those who Receive the free offer of Salvation ----
Strong's Concordance
makarios: blessed, happy
3107 makários (from mak-, "become long, large") – properly, when God extends His benefits (the advantages He confers); blessed.
3107 /makários ("blessed") describes a believer in enviable("fortunate") position from receiving God's provisions (favor) –
which (literally) extend ("make long, large") His grace (benefits).
This happens with receiving (obeying) the Lord's inbirthings of faith. Hence, faith (4102 /pístis) and 3107 (makários) are closely associated (Ro 4:5-7,14:22,23; Rev 14:12,13).
The woe's are to the Rich -----
24 But woe to (alas for) you who are rich abounding in material resources), for you already are receiving your consolation (the solace and sense of strengthening and cheer that come from prosperity) and have taken and enjoyed your comfort in full [having nothing left to be awarded you].
unsafe posting here from Matthew
unsafe says
If our Heart is in our Stuff then it is away from God
unsafe says ------God has a Purpose For His Money ----it is not to be stored up for ourselves ---it is to be used to advance God's Kingdom -God DOES NOT have a Problem with True Christ-ians having Wealth as Long as it is being used for His Purpose not ours ---God is our Provider for wealth not the World ------
unsafe Posting here from ------Deuteronomy ----We are to Rely on God to give us what He sees fit for us to help His Kingdom ----Notice ----God Gives Us ---THE ABILITY---POWER To Get Wealth ----We get the ability from God--- Not ourselves --There is Worldly Wealth and Godly Wealth
25 Woe to (alas for) you who are full now (completely filled, luxuriously gorged and satiated), for you shall hunger and suffer want! Woe to (alas for) you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep and wail!
unsafe says -----these people are full --and laugh cause they have filled their bellies with Perishable items --their cravings for more will consume them and they will suffer in their wants of more and more ------their Spirit is full of Greed and this will destroy them and in their end they will morn and wail as they reap their reward for their worldly desires ------
26 Woe to (alas for) you when everyone speaks fairly and handsomely of you and praises you, for even so their forefathers did to the false prophets.
unsafe says ----These People like their Popularity addressed ---they like to be Praised ---they like to be the center of Attention ----they like People to speak well of them ----their Ego has to be Fed ------
These people are in bondage to their Need to Feed on themselves -------Big Ego
unsafe says ------The latter part of this scripture here in verse 26--for even so their forefathers did to the false prophets.----Is saying the False Prophets Preached to please the People not God and by their Flattery and Lies found a method that gained them praise and good opinion by their church ------they didn't preach truth they preached to please the people ------
unsafe posting from Galatians -----
Galatians 1:10(NIV)
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
unsafe says ------We have to decide if we want to be in the Blessed or Woes side of the Beatitudes ---we can't be in Both -----we can't serve 2 Masters -----We have a Choice to Choose ----all up to us -----
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
HOw wonderfully anti-JEwish of you. I suggest that the Rabbis would disagree vehemently.
And yet David writes, "Blessed be they, whose wickedness be forgiven; and whose sins be covered. Blessed is the man, to whom the Lord areckoned not sin; neither guile is in his spirit. For I was still, my bones waxed eld; while I cried all day. For by day and night thine hand was made grievous on me; I am turned in my wretchedness, while the thorn is set in. I made my sin known to thee; and I hid not my unrightfulness. I said, I shall acknowledge against me mine unrightfulness to the Lord; and thou hast forgiven the wickedness of my sin." - Psalm 32:1-5 (WYC).
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
To start with, Rabbi as we use the term is not really used in Scripture. I do suggest that the Rabbis who gathered to formulate the Talmud would say that there is blessing AND obligation in Torah. You have taken Pauline logic against the Law farther than even Paul takes it if you only see that law as a tool to crush folk under the supposed weight of sin.
I am not going to get into the game of finding Scriptures with you because my experience f you is that unless one interprets Scripture EXACTLY like you do then you figure they are wrong anyway. The general principle is that Torah is in and of itself a blessing. The concept that somehow those who follow Torah are not blessed because they follow a different path to the Holy is deeply disturbing.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Jae ----your quote ---- And yet David writes, "Blessed be they, whose wickedness be forgiven; and whose sins be covered. Blessed is the man, to whom the Lord areckoned not sin; neither guile is in his spirit. For I was still, my bones waxed eld; while I cried all day. For by day and night thine hand was made grievous on me; I am turned in my wretchedness, while the thorn is set in. I made my sin known to thee; and I hid not my unrightfulness. I said, I shall acknowledge against me mine unrightfulness to the Lord; and thou hast forgiven the wickedness of my sin." - Psalm 32:1-5 (WYC).
Jae ----David was blessed because He was a Son of Jacob ------not because he kept the Law -------it was a promised kept by God the Father to Abraham and His Sons
David’s Early Life
David was born in Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, in the year 2854 (907 BCE), during the era of the prophets. He was the youngest of seven sons, and only 10 generations removed from Judah, one of Jacob's 12 sons.
After the Law was given to the Jews ----God gave Blessings and Cruses ----In order to be Blessed you had to keep the laws ----and that was impossible for mankind ----so the Curse was in Place till Jesus came and Fulfilled it and died on the cross to defeat the Curse and bring back the Blessings ------
The Law increased sin -----it was brought in to make the Jews see they needed a Saviour to save them from themselves ------
Jae ----David was blessed because He was a Son of Jacob ------not because he kept the Law -------it was a promised kept by God the Father to Abraham and His Sons
David’s Early Life
David was born in Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, in the year 2854 (907 BCE), during the era of the prophets. He was the youngest of seven sons, and only 10 generations removed from Judah, one of Jacob's 12 sons.
After the Law was given to the Jews ----God gave Blessings and Cruses ----In order to be Blessed you had to keep the laws ----and that was impossible for mankind ----so the Curse was in Place till Jesus came and Fulfilled it and died on the cross to defeat the Curse and bring back the Blessings ------
The Law increased sin -----it was brought in to make the Jews see they needed a Saviour to save them from themselves ------
unsafe
Well-Known Member
GordW ---your quote ------ You have taken Pauline logic against the Law farther than even Paul takes it if you only see that law as a tool to crush folk under the supposed weight of sin.
unsafe says ------I take God's Word about it GordW ------God's Word says it is truth if you want to disagree with God that is your choice ---but don't blame me for your choices -----God makes it very clear that no man could keep the Law and the Curse was in Place ---that is not me saying this ----It is God -----
If you dislike this scripture GordW ---let God know ---I just believe what it says ----
unsafe says ------I take God's Word about it GordW ------God's Word says it is truth if you want to disagree with God that is your choice ---but don't blame me for your choices -----God makes it very clear that no man could keep the Law and the Curse was in Place ---that is not me saying this ----It is God -----
If you dislike this scripture GordW ---let God know ---I just believe what it says ----
GordW ---your quote ------ You have taken Pauline logic against the Law farther than even Paul takes it if you only see that law as a tool to crush folk under the supposed weight of sin.
unsafe says ------I take God's Word about it GordW ------God's Word says it is truth if you want to disagree with God that is your choice ---but don't blame me for your choices -----God makes it very clear that no man could keep the Law and the Curse was in Place ---that is not me saying this ----It is God -----
If you dislike this scripture GordW ---let God know ---I just believe what it says ----
unsafe, what you originally posted was, "no one was Blessed in the Old Testament after the Law was introduce ------" David and others were.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Jae -----your quote -------unsafe, what you originally posted was, "no one was Blessed in the Old Testament after the Law was introduce ------" David and others were.
Your grasping at straws again -----This was before the Law ---in Genesis the Mosaic Law was not in place -----If you read Genesis 28 :1 it says this -----28 Isaac called for Jacob and blessed him.
Genesis 28:10-22 (GW)
Jacob’s First Encounter with God
10 Jacob left Beersheba and traveled toward Haran. 11 When he came to a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had gone down. He took one of the stones from that place, put it under his head, and lay down there. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway set up on the earth with its top reaching up to heaven. He saw the angels of God going up and coming down on it. 13 The Lord was standing above it, saying, “I am the Lord, the God of your grandfather Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give the land on which you are lying to you and your descendants. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust on the earth. You will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. Through you and through your descendant every family on earth will be blessed. 15 Remember, I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. I will also bring you back to this land because I will not leave you until I do what I’ve promised you.”
unsafe says ------No Person was Blessed because they kept the Law Jae ---the curse was in place for all Jewish people no one could keep the Law --Jesus came to fulfil it -----
unsafe says
God picked certain people on His own to fulfil His Plan ---that has nothing to do with people keeping the Law and being Blessed because they obeyed the laws of Moses ------
Your grasping at straws again -----This was before the Law ---in Genesis the Mosaic Law was not in place -----If you read Genesis 28 :1 it says this -----28 Isaac called for Jacob and blessed him.
Genesis 28:10-22 (GW)
Jacob’s First Encounter with God
10 Jacob left Beersheba and traveled toward Haran. 11 When he came to a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had gone down. He took one of the stones from that place, put it under his head, and lay down there. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway set up on the earth with its top reaching up to heaven. He saw the angels of God going up and coming down on it. 13 The Lord was standing above it, saying, “I am the Lord, the God of your grandfather Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give the land on which you are lying to you and your descendants. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust on the earth. You will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. Through you and through your descendant every family on earth will be blessed. 15 Remember, I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go. I will also bring you back to this land because I will not leave you until I do what I’ve promised you.”
unsafe says ------No Person was Blessed because they kept the Law Jae ---the curse was in place for all Jewish people no one could keep the Law --Jesus came to fulfil it -----
unsafe says
God picked certain people on His own to fulfil His Plan ---that has nothing to do with people keeping the Law and being Blessed because they obeyed the laws of Moses ------
- Status