I don't know paradox3, I just learned it. I studied biblical interpretation, among other things, at Canada's best transdenominational seminary.
Bible Study Thread: Luke
- Thread starter paradox3
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
- Status
I don't know paradox3, I just learned it. I studied biblical interpretation, among other things, at Canada's best transdenominational seminary.
Thoughts on Luke 36-39...
Trying to make a new-dress-patch hold a rent in an old dress only makes matters worse; for the new cloth draws the threads of the garment's weak part. Also, the new patch stands out too much from the old dress.
To put new wine into old skins' foolish, since the new wine will tear the bottles. So the new wine is put properly into new skins.
The old dress' works righteousness, the new patch Jesus' free grace. The Pharisees' piety and Jesus' doctrine don't fit together. If any one trusts in his own works, and then intends to put a Gospel-patch upon this self-righteousness, they'll find out that this comfort's not reliable. Such a person still trusts in his own merit and will be condemned with this comfort.
And the new wine's the Gospel. This news doesn't fit into Pharisaic hearts; if the Gospel's preached to such as still depend upon their own works, it's wasted, for they receive no benefit from it. The Gospel requires all hearts to trust simply in Jesus' merits.
Finally: A person that's drunk old wine knows it and so doesn't want to change for the new, which may be less agreeable. So did the Pharisees and John's disciples love their old ways that they didn't want to change, although the new doctrine's offering was salvation full and free.
Trying to make a new-dress-patch hold a rent in an old dress only makes matters worse; for the new cloth draws the threads of the garment's weak part. Also, the new patch stands out too much from the old dress.
To put new wine into old skins' foolish, since the new wine will tear the bottles. So the new wine is put properly into new skins.
The old dress' works righteousness, the new patch Jesus' free grace. The Pharisees' piety and Jesus' doctrine don't fit together. If any one trusts in his own works, and then intends to put a Gospel-patch upon this self-righteousness, they'll find out that this comfort's not reliable. Such a person still trusts in his own merit and will be condemned with this comfort.
And the new wine's the Gospel. This news doesn't fit into Pharisaic hearts; if the Gospel's preached to such as still depend upon their own works, it's wasted, for they receive no benefit from it. The Gospel requires all hearts to trust simply in Jesus' merits.
Finally: A person that's drunk old wine knows it and so doesn't want to change for the new, which may be less agreeable. So did the Pharisees and John's disciples love their old ways that they didn't want to change, although the new doctrine's offering was salvation full and free.
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
In this passage, Jesus is again breaking boundaries. The Pharisees fasted 2x a week, and it became part of their identity. That everybody didn't do so became a point of pride for them. Thus, when the disciples of Jesus didn't fast, the Pharisees thought they had something to embarrass them by. Jesus counters by pointing out that the Pharisees had added the tradition of fasting to the law... the old wine is God's original plan, the less-than-satisfying new wine was the Pharisaic code, an overlay on what God's actual expectations are.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Good to have another explanation to consider. I do find these parables about the old and the new rather confounding. Coming as they do so soon after mention of Jesus calling us to repentance, I wonder if they are addressing the need for repentance. Not sure how exactly.
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
When I recently preached on the equivalent passage from Mark I had this thought about the new/old thing:
(Ministerial Mutterings: Looking Forward to January 27, 2019)
ANd in the life of faith the challenge is in fact to know when we need the new container/contents and when we need to keep the old.
When is it time to patch the old cloak and when is it time for a whole new one?
(Ministerial Mutterings: Looking Forward to January 27, 2019)
ANd in the life of faith the challenge is in fact to know when we need the new container/contents and when we need to keep the old.
When is it time to patch the old cloak and when is it time for a whole new one?
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Really enjoyed reading your thoughts about the new and the old, GordW. It might be interesting to consider the open letter from the General Secretary and the Moderator in light of this text.
Why? What did they say?
Carolla
wondering & wandering
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Thank you for your words GordW. Certainly a theme that is on my mind as my church experiences the dance of amalgamation - I find myself often commenting "New Church for a New Day" - reminding myself not to be expending too much effort shoe-horning things into boxes that no longer fit.
I like your comment too Paradox3 wondering about the letter from Richard & Nora, which I just read. Looks like many opportunities to revitalize mission and faith life, as opposed to 'church life'. I suppose 'church life' was the domain of the Pharisees in Luke's writing today ... so yes, I see relevance.
I like your comment too Paradox3 wondering about the letter from Richard & Nora, which I just read. Looks like many opportunities to revitalize mission and faith life, as opposed to 'church life'. I suppose 'church life' was the domain of the Pharisees in Luke's writing today ... so yes, I see relevance.
Take a look. One little click on GordW's post will get you there.
And it's not a long read.
From the letter - "We continue to be called to celebrate God’s presence, to live with respect in Creation, to love and serve others, to seek justice and resist evil, and to proclaim Jesus, crucified and risen."
What happened to noting that Jesus is our Judge and our hope?
GordW
Church-Geek-Oramus
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I did think of a third challenge the church too often faces. SOmetimes we cling to the old cloak well after patching it is useful and to the old wine well after it has turned to vinegar.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
Luke 5:33-39
Spiritually Speaking ------Fasting was only required by Law on the Day of Atonement by God -----The Pharisees if you do your research did their own fasting on certain days ------Monday and Thursday are mentioned in this article ----it was done as soul affliction according to this article ----but it was also done as it was thought to get God to move in a certain situation ----
unsafe posting link here -----Read for yourselves -----
FASTING AND FAST-DAYS - JewishEncyclopedia.com
unsafe says -----Jesus did not approve of the Pharisees fasting 2 times a week ---Jesus never really addressed the issue of Fasting ----so to Jesus it was not an important topic of discussion it was done on the Day of Atonement as the Law required -----
Fasting was done for personal sorrow and Jesus doesn't mince His words Here with the Pharisees when they chastise the Disciples for not fasting and praying ----
Luke 5:33-39 Version (ERV)
Jesus Is Not Like Other Religious Leaders
33 They said to Jesus, “John’s followers often fast and pray, the same as the followers of the Pharisees. But your followers eat and drink all the time.”
34 Jesus said to them, “At a wedding you can’t ask the friends of the bridegroom to be sad and fast while he is still with them. 35 But the time will come when the groom will be taken away from them. Then his friends will fast.”
Today fasting is a personal preference -----some feel closer to God when they fast today -----But Fasting today will not Get God to move on our behalf ---God has already Moved and we get what He Moved on by and through our Faith in His accomplishments -----
In the Old Covenant of the Law We had to obey and then God moved ------In the New Covenant God Moved and all we have to do is Receive -----
unsafe says ---
As Far as the Old and the New mixing goes in this passage ------Jesus was bringing in a New Garment and to use it to Patch up the Old Garment would render it less perfect -----God hates Mixture ----Mixture bring an inbetween into the Picture and there is no inbetween when it comes to the New taking over the Old -----the Old disappears ----it becomes Obsolete -and is by God put away ----The New Takes Over -----Luke warmness is the result of being neither hot or cold in a matter -----and God makes it very clear that anyone who is lukewarm will get nothing from God -----The Pharisees were about to come to an end of their Old ways of doing things but they were so set in the Law they refused to understand just how in need they were of the New replacing the Old
unsafe Posting here from Revelations ----The scripture is very Precise and Graphic ----
Revelation 3:14-18 (GW)
A Letter to the Church in Laodicea
14 “To the messenger of the church in Laodicea, write:
The amen, the witness who is faithful and true, the source of God’s creation, says: 15 I know what you have done, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. 16 But since you are lukewarm and not hot or cold, I’m going to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I’m rich. I’m wealthy. I don’t need anything.’ Yet, you do not realize that you are miserable, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I advise you: Buy gold purified in fire from me so that you may be rich. Buy white clothes from me. Wear them so that you may keep your shameful, naked body from showing. Buy ointment to put on your eyes so that you may see.
Spiritually Speaking ------Fasting was only required by Law on the Day of Atonement by God -----The Pharisees if you do your research did their own fasting on certain days ------Monday and Thursday are mentioned in this article ----it was done as soul affliction according to this article ----but it was also done as it was thought to get God to move in a certain situation ----
unsafe posting link here -----Read for yourselves -----
FASTING AND FAST-DAYS - JewishEncyclopedia.com
unsafe says -----Jesus did not approve of the Pharisees fasting 2 times a week ---Jesus never really addressed the issue of Fasting ----so to Jesus it was not an important topic of discussion it was done on the Day of Atonement as the Law required -----
Fasting was done for personal sorrow and Jesus doesn't mince His words Here with the Pharisees when they chastise the Disciples for not fasting and praying ----
Luke 5:33-39 Version (ERV)
Jesus Is Not Like Other Religious Leaders
33 They said to Jesus, “John’s followers often fast and pray, the same as the followers of the Pharisees. But your followers eat and drink all the time.”
34 Jesus said to them, “At a wedding you can’t ask the friends of the bridegroom to be sad and fast while he is still with them. 35 But the time will come when the groom will be taken away from them. Then his friends will fast.”
Today fasting is a personal preference -----some feel closer to God when they fast today -----But Fasting today will not Get God to move on our behalf ---God has already Moved and we get what He Moved on by and through our Faith in His accomplishments -----
In the Old Covenant of the Law We had to obey and then God moved ------In the New Covenant God Moved and all we have to do is Receive -----
unsafe says ---
As Far as the Old and the New mixing goes in this passage ------Jesus was bringing in a New Garment and to use it to Patch up the Old Garment would render it less perfect -----God hates Mixture ----Mixture bring an inbetween into the Picture and there is no inbetween when it comes to the New taking over the Old -----the Old disappears ----it becomes Obsolete -and is by God put away ----The New Takes Over -----Luke warmness is the result of being neither hot or cold in a matter -----and God makes it very clear that anyone who is lukewarm will get nothing from God -----The Pharisees were about to come to an end of their Old ways of doing things but they were so set in the Law they refused to understand just how in need they were of the New replacing the Old
unsafe Posting here from Revelations ----The scripture is very Precise and Graphic ----
Revelation 3:14-18 (GW)
A Letter to the Church in Laodicea
14 “To the messenger of the church in Laodicea, write:
The amen, the witness who is faithful and true, the source of God’s creation, says: 15 I know what you have done, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. 16 But since you are lukewarm and not hot or cold, I’m going to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I’m rich. I’m wealthy. I don’t need anything.’ Yet, you do not realize that you are miserable, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I advise you: Buy gold purified in fire from me so that you may be rich. Buy white clothes from me. Wear them so that you may keep your shameful, naked body from showing. Buy ointment to put on your eyes so that you may see.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Summary: Luke 6: 1 -11
One sabbath, Jesus and his disciples are going through the grain-fields. His disciples pluck some grains, rub them in their hands and eat them. The Pharisees question this and Jesus talks about when David and his companions were hungry. They ate the bread of the Presence which was not lawful for anyone but the priests to eat.
Then he said, "The Son of Man is lord of the sabbath."
On another sabbath, Jesus enters the synagogue and teaches. The scribes and Pharisees are watching to see if he will cure on the sabbath so they might accuse him. Jesus heals a man with a withered hand, and says, "I ask you, is it lawful to do good or harm on the sabbath, to save life or destroy it?"
The Pharisees are filled with fury and start plotting against Jesus.
One sabbath, Jesus and his disciples are going through the grain-fields. His disciples pluck some grains, rub them in their hands and eat them. The Pharisees question this and Jesus talks about when David and his companions were hungry. They ate the bread of the Presence which was not lawful for anyone but the priests to eat.
Then he said, "The Son of Man is lord of the sabbath."
On another sabbath, Jesus enters the synagogue and teaches. The scribes and Pharisees are watching to see if he will cure on the sabbath so they might accuse him. Jesus heals a man with a withered hand, and says, "I ask you, is it lawful to do good or harm on the sabbath, to save life or destroy it?"
The Pharisees are filled with fury and start plotting against Jesus.
paradox3
Peanuts Fan
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Reflection: Luke 1 - 11
An interesting little passage which gives us Jesus applying a standard of reasonableness to sabbath observance. In doing so he openly defies the Pharisees, who become enraged. And we have Jesus declaring that he himself is the Lord of the sabbath.
Here is a definition I found for the bread of Presence:
Showbread (Hebrew: לחם הפנים lechem haPānīm, literally: "Bread of the Presence"), in the King James Version: shewbread, in a biblical or Jewish context, refers to the cakes or loaves of bread which were always present on a specially dedicated table, in the Temple in Jerusalem as an offering to God.
Could Luke be foreshadowing the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper?
Here in a few verses of text, we have continuity with the Judaism of the past, a reinterpretation of its practices for the present and foreshadowing of future events. Wow!
An interesting little passage which gives us Jesus applying a standard of reasonableness to sabbath observance. In doing so he openly defies the Pharisees, who become enraged. And we have Jesus declaring that he himself is the Lord of the sabbath.
Here is a definition I found for the bread of Presence:
Showbread (Hebrew: לחם הפנים lechem haPānīm, literally: "Bread of the Presence"), in the King James Version: shewbread, in a biblical or Jewish context, refers to the cakes or loaves of bread which were always present on a specially dedicated table, in the Temple in Jerusalem as an offering to God.
Could Luke be foreshadowing the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper?
Here in a few verses of text, we have continuity with the Judaism of the past, a reinterpretation of its practices for the present and foreshadowing of future events. Wow!
Thoughts on Luke 6:1-5...
On the Feast of Weeks, the sheaves of the field's firstfruits were offered to God, and the Jews reckoned the Sabbaths until Pentecost from this day.
Jesus was walking through the crop, which was now in full ear and ready for cutting.
The paths were short cuts, and led across some person's land. No one thought of plowing these up. The path belonged to the public.
As Jesus was strolling along with his missionaries, the latter began to pull out ripe grain's spikes and to rub the ears in between their hands to take out the kernels.
The Pharisees made this act against the 3rd Commandment, looking upon the stalk's pulling as gathering food and upon the hulls' removing as purifying food and preparing food.
The Pharisees rebuked the missionaries, with the point aimed against Jesus. They accused them of disrespecting the Sabbath.
Jesus challenges the Pharisees' knowledge of the Scriptures. His words contain a rebuke, "'Have you read what David did; have you so little understanding of the OT?'"
David went into the tabernacle and took some showbread which he then enjoyed, though such bread was the priests'. In an unusual situation, love's law's always the highest.
The Pharisees should now draw the conclusion from the smaller to the greater. If David had this right and did nothing shameful, then Jesus must have the right.
And if this argument wouldn't be sufficiently strong for them, they should remember that Jesus' God. If he dispenses with, or changes, the law with reference to this holiday, it's a matter in his right.
On the Feast of Weeks, the sheaves of the field's firstfruits were offered to God, and the Jews reckoned the Sabbaths until Pentecost from this day.
Jesus was walking through the crop, which was now in full ear and ready for cutting.
The paths were short cuts, and led across some person's land. No one thought of plowing these up. The path belonged to the public.
As Jesus was strolling along with his missionaries, the latter began to pull out ripe grain's spikes and to rub the ears in between their hands to take out the kernels.
The Pharisees made this act against the 3rd Commandment, looking upon the stalk's pulling as gathering food and upon the hulls' removing as purifying food and preparing food.
The Pharisees rebuked the missionaries, with the point aimed against Jesus. They accused them of disrespecting the Sabbath.
Jesus challenges the Pharisees' knowledge of the Scriptures. His words contain a rebuke, "'Have you read what David did; have you so little understanding of the OT?'"
David went into the tabernacle and took some showbread which he then enjoyed, though such bread was the priests'. In an unusual situation, love's law's always the highest.
The Pharisees should now draw the conclusion from the smaller to the greater. If David had this right and did nothing shameful, then Jesus must have the right.
And if this argument wouldn't be sufficiently strong for them, they should remember that Jesus' God. If he dispenses with, or changes, the law with reference to this holiday, it's a matter in his right.
Redbaron
Pirate fan since the dark ages
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Interesting observation, considering the connection between the grains the disciples were eating (from which bread was made); the mention of the 'Bread of the Presence' (self-explaining); and the Bread of the Eucharist (the sign of the body/ presence of Christ). There does seem to be a thread of connection between them.
Thoughts on Luke 6:6-11...
Jesus was again in the synagogue, teaching, as was his custom. He was preaching when the incident which's here related occurred.
There was a man in the synagogue, brought there by the Pharisees, whose hand was withered, as disease's result.
Now the scribes and Pharisees kept watching what Jesus would do when this man's condition would be brought to his attention.
Jesus took up their challenge. He'd the sick man stand forth in the room's center, so that those present might see him and the miracle which he proposed to do to him.
Jesus now asked his foes a question, to show them that he read their hearts, for he was filled with pity. He asked them whether it was the right thing to do good on the Sabbath.
To leave any sick person in their misery for even one minute longer than's necessarys a 5th-Commandment-transgression; this they should know.
The Pharisees stayed too stubborn to bear witness to the truth. There was no yielding-indication.
And so Jesus did the miracle before their eyes. At His command the sick man stretched forth his hand, and it was restored to health.
The Pharisees were foiled. This made them mad against Jesus, because the miracle would increase his fame. From this time on they were active in thinking up ways to remove him. They wanted him dead.
Jesus gave them no opportunity at this time to carry out their designs.
Jesus was again in the synagogue, teaching, as was his custom. He was preaching when the incident which's here related occurred.
There was a man in the synagogue, brought there by the Pharisees, whose hand was withered, as disease's result.
Now the scribes and Pharisees kept watching what Jesus would do when this man's condition would be brought to his attention.
Jesus took up their challenge. He'd the sick man stand forth in the room's center, so that those present might see him and the miracle which he proposed to do to him.
Jesus now asked his foes a question, to show them that he read their hearts, for he was filled with pity. He asked them whether it was the right thing to do good on the Sabbath.
To leave any sick person in their misery for even one minute longer than's necessarys a 5th-Commandment-transgression; this they should know.
The Pharisees stayed too stubborn to bear witness to the truth. There was no yielding-indication.
And so Jesus did the miracle before their eyes. At His command the sick man stretched forth his hand, and it was restored to health.
The Pharisees were foiled. This made them mad against Jesus, because the miracle would increase his fame. From this time on they were active in thinking up ways to remove him. They wanted him dead.
Jesus gave them no opportunity at this time to carry out their designs.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
This is part of todays scripture -----
Luke 6:1-5 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Jesus Has Authority over the Day of Worship
6 Once, on a day of rest—a holy day, Jesus was walking through some grain fields. His disciples were picking the heads of grain, removing the husks, and eating the grain.
2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are your disciples doing something that is not right to do on the day of rest—a holy day?”
3 Jesus answered them, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his men were hungry? 4 Haven’t you read how he went into the house of God, ate the bread of the presence, and gave some of it to the men who were with him? He had no right to eat those loaves. Only the priests have that right.”
5 Then he added, “The Son of Man has authority over the day of rest—a holy day.”
unsafe says ----So we see that Jesus and Hid Disciples were going through a Grain field on the Sabbath which was perceived by the Jewish Leaders a day that no work of any kind was to be done and that included picking Grain with your hands ------
unsafe posting here reference scripture
But if we look in Deuteronomy 23 GWv 24-25 ---unsafe says ------we see that there is a stipulation here about going into a vineyard or grain field on the Sabbath ---
24 If you go into your neighbor’s vineyard, you may eat as many grapes as you like until you’re full. But never put any in your basket.
25 If you go into your neighbor’s grain field, you may pick grain by hand. But never use a sickle to cut your neighbor’s grain.
unsafe says ------So we see here that the Pharisees have Wrongly Divided God's Word here and have put their own spin on what the Word of God says -----and by wrongly dividing the real meaning of the Sabbath they hold people in bondage to their made up rules --
This is so Present in todays world --------We Humans read the scripture and instead of having the real meaning we just wing it and we say what we think it is saying or what we want it to say and end up like the Pharisees ----Wrongly Dividing the Word and keeping People in the dark of the real message that God is presenting ------It is a dangerous game today being like the Pharisees as it affects our outcome of where we eternally end up in our end of this physical life -----
unsafe says ---We see Jesus answer to them and again He doesn't mince His words ---He tells them in no uncertain terms that the Son of Man is in charge of the Sabbath ------and He directs them to David who was given the bread of presents which was for the Priests only ------The Pharisees would have been very familiar with that Passage of scripture ------
This Bread of Presents read here ---Exodus 25:23-30 ----Leviticus 24:5-7 ---talks about it -----
unsafe posting here 1 Samuel 21:1-6 which tells of David and the Bread of Presents -----
1 Samuel 21 (GW)
David at Nob
21 David went to the priest Ahimelech at Nob. Ahimelech was trembling as he went to meet David. “Why are you alone?” he asked David. “Why is no one with you?”
2 “The king ordered me to do something,” David answered the priest Ahimelech, “and he told me, ‘No one must know anything about this mission I’m sending you on and about the orders I’ve given you. I’ve stationed my young men at a certain place.’”
3 David added, “Now, what do you have to eat? Give me five loaves of bread or whatever you can find.”
4 “I don’t have any ordinary bread,” the chief priest answered David. “But there is holy bread for the young men if they haven’t had sexual intercourse today.”
5 David answered the priest, “Of course women have been kept away from us as usual when we go on a mission. The young men’s bodies are kept holy even on ordinary campaigns. How much more then will their bodies be holy today?”
6 So the priest gave him holy bread because he only had the bread of the presence which had been taken from the Lord’s presence and replaced with warm bread that day.
unsafe says ---So Jesus was saying to them in verse ---5 Then he added, “The Son of Man has authority over the day of rest—a holy day.”
So in other words Jesus is saying ---the Law you so strictly uphold is about to be put away -----and that no ceremonial law would override the principle of providing food to the body ------
The Pharisees made God's laws a Burden and Yoke to their people by adding their own spin on them and Wrongly Dividing what was meant to be for the good for God's people ------
Jesus is our Bread of Life and the bread of presents which is suppose to be always on the table of the tabernacle is a great metaphor for this ------
unsafe posting here from Hebrews 9
Hebrews 9 (GW)
Christ Offered a Superior Sacrifice
9 The first promise had rules for the priests’ service. It also had a holy place on earth. 2 A tent was set up. The first part of this tent was called the holy place. The lamp stand, the table, and the bread of the presence were in this part of the tent.
11 But Christ came as a chief priest of the good things that are now here. Christ went through a better, more perfect tent that was not made by human hands and that is not part of this created world.
2 He used his own blood, not the blood of goats and bulls, for the sacrifice. He went into the most holy place and offered this sacrifice once and for all to free us forever.
unsafe says -----Jesus is our Bread of Presents today
Luke 6:1-5 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Jesus Has Authority over the Day of Worship
6 Once, on a day of rest—a holy day, Jesus was walking through some grain fields. His disciples were picking the heads of grain, removing the husks, and eating the grain.
2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are your disciples doing something that is not right to do on the day of rest—a holy day?”
3 Jesus answered them, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his men were hungry? 4 Haven’t you read how he went into the house of God, ate the bread of the presence, and gave some of it to the men who were with him? He had no right to eat those loaves. Only the priests have that right.”
5 Then he added, “The Son of Man has authority over the day of rest—a holy day.”
unsafe says ----So we see that Jesus and Hid Disciples were going through a Grain field on the Sabbath which was perceived by the Jewish Leaders a day that no work of any kind was to be done and that included picking Grain with your hands ------
unsafe posting here reference scripture
But if we look in Deuteronomy 23 GWv 24-25 ---unsafe says ------we see that there is a stipulation here about going into a vineyard or grain field on the Sabbath ---
24 If you go into your neighbor’s vineyard, you may eat as many grapes as you like until you’re full. But never put any in your basket.
25 If you go into your neighbor’s grain field, you may pick grain by hand. But never use a sickle to cut your neighbor’s grain.
unsafe says ------So we see here that the Pharisees have Wrongly Divided God's Word here and have put their own spin on what the Word of God says -----and by wrongly dividing the real meaning of the Sabbath they hold people in bondage to their made up rules --
This is so Present in todays world --------We Humans read the scripture and instead of having the real meaning we just wing it and we say what we think it is saying or what we want it to say and end up like the Pharisees ----Wrongly Dividing the Word and keeping People in the dark of the real message that God is presenting ------It is a dangerous game today being like the Pharisees as it affects our outcome of where we eternally end up in our end of this physical life -----
unsafe says ---We see Jesus answer to them and again He doesn't mince His words ---He tells them in no uncertain terms that the Son of Man is in charge of the Sabbath ------and He directs them to David who was given the bread of presents which was for the Priests only ------The Pharisees would have been very familiar with that Passage of scripture ------
This Bread of Presents read here ---Exodus 25:23-30 ----Leviticus 24:5-7 ---talks about it -----
unsafe posting here 1 Samuel 21:1-6 which tells of David and the Bread of Presents -----
1 Samuel 21 (GW)
David at Nob
21 David went to the priest Ahimelech at Nob. Ahimelech was trembling as he went to meet David. “Why are you alone?” he asked David. “Why is no one with you?”
2 “The king ordered me to do something,” David answered the priest Ahimelech, “and he told me, ‘No one must know anything about this mission I’m sending you on and about the orders I’ve given you. I’ve stationed my young men at a certain place.’”
3 David added, “Now, what do you have to eat? Give me five loaves of bread or whatever you can find.”
4 “I don’t have any ordinary bread,” the chief priest answered David. “But there is holy bread for the young men if they haven’t had sexual intercourse today.”
5 David answered the priest, “Of course women have been kept away from us as usual when we go on a mission. The young men’s bodies are kept holy even on ordinary campaigns. How much more then will their bodies be holy today?”
6 So the priest gave him holy bread because he only had the bread of the presence which had been taken from the Lord’s presence and replaced with warm bread that day.
unsafe says ---So Jesus was saying to them in verse ---5 Then he added, “The Son of Man has authority over the day of rest—a holy day.”
So in other words Jesus is saying ---the Law you so strictly uphold is about to be put away -----and that no ceremonial law would override the principle of providing food to the body ------
The Pharisees made God's laws a Burden and Yoke to their people by adding their own spin on them and Wrongly Dividing what was meant to be for the good for God's people ------
Jesus is our Bread of Life and the bread of presents which is suppose to be always on the table of the tabernacle is a great metaphor for this ------
unsafe posting here from Hebrews 9
Hebrews 9 (GW)
Christ Offered a Superior Sacrifice
9 The first promise had rules for the priests’ service. It also had a holy place on earth. 2 A tent was set up. The first part of this tent was called the holy place. The lamp stand, the table, and the bread of the presence were in this part of the tent.
11 But Christ came as a chief priest of the good things that are now here. Christ went through a better, more perfect tent that was not made by human hands and that is not part of this created world.
2 He used his own blood, not the blood of goats and bulls, for the sacrifice. He went into the most holy place and offered this sacrifice once and for all to free us forever.
unsafe says -----Jesus is our Bread of Presents today
Carolla
wondering & wandering
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
It's an interesting passage. Jesus is using old testament story which would be familiar to the Pharisees (and their followers) & challenging the fact they themselves do work on the sabbath while prohibiting others from doing likewise - "do as I say, not as I do"? Was he pointing out (again?) that the church had become legalistic to such an extent that it interfered with rather than enhanced & supported human life? And therefore irrelevant in its present form - and by association so too were the Pharisees? Speaking such truth to power is always dangerous.
Yesterday I was listening to a podcast & there was a comment that this first "Jesus movement" was a youth movement - Jesus was relatively young, as were the disciples who left the ways of their fathers & elders to take up a new mission - not an uncommon thing amongst youth even today. So perhaps there is also an entitled inter-generational anger experienced by the Pharisees?
So many points for us to ponder in the life of today's church ... if we can see it.
Yesterday I was listening to a podcast & there was a comment that this first "Jesus movement" was a youth movement - Jesus was relatively young, as were the disciples who left the ways of their fathers & elders to take up a new mission - not an uncommon thing amongst youth even today. So perhaps there is also an entitled inter-generational anger experienced by the Pharisees?
So many points for us to ponder in the life of today's church ... if we can see it.
- Status