How was church today?

[Luce NDs]

Hiking is like a jihad ... struggling with the false environment that you didn't know was out there ... how's that for the pilgrims?

 

[Seeler]

Today's service, in my home church, was a different experience for me. Our ministers and choir led a Taize service - one scripture reading, short prayers, interspersed with short repetitive choruses - "Stay with me", "Nothing can Trouble", "O God, Hear my Prayer", "Jesus,remember me". And lots of periods of silence.
This was a first for me. I've been to Taize services before but usually short, special services (ie at Conference, or at a retreat).
Actually this style of worship seemed more suited to an evening service or to a service at a retreat.
I guess I've trained myself to expect a sermon or message at my regular Sunday morning worship service.
Through August and next Sunday we've been having the other downtown UCC join us (wee joined them in July). I'm looking forward to getting back to our regular services.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

Today's service, in my home church, was a different experience for me. Our ministers and choir led a Taize service - one scripture reading, short prayers, interspersed with short repetitive choruses - "Stay with me", "Nothing can Trouble", "O God, Hear my Prayer", "Jesus,remember me". And lots of periods of silence.
This was a first for me. I've been to Taize services before but usually short, special services (ie at Conference, or at a retreat).
Actually this style of worship seemed more suited to an evening service or to a service at a retreat.
I guess I've trained myself to expect a sermon or message at my regular Sunday morning worship service.
Through August and next Sunday we've been having the other downtown UCC join us (wee joined them in July). I'm looking forward to getting back to our regular services.

Actually, in Taize itself, you go to this kind of service three times a day. It is part of the daily routine, as in monastery usually practiced. Doing so, from my own experience, one cycles through boredom, annoyance ( they do not just repeat the same melody five times like they do here, its more like five to ten minutes) into a state of meditation that brings you closer to your soul. As there usually is a reading, for example a part of a psalm, there is plenty to think about if you feel the need.
Taize is about feeling god more so than thinking about messages. I have yet to find a service that came close to what actually happens in Taize, in general, people are afraid of the silence.

 

[You just never know]

Today's service, in my home church, was a different experience for me. Our ministers and choir led a Taize service - one scripture reading, short prayers, interspersed with short repetitive choruses - "Stay with me", "Nothing can Trouble", "O God, Hear my Prayer", "Jesus,remember me". And lots of periods of silence.
This was a first for me. I've been to Taize services before but usually short, special services (ie at Conference, or at a retreat).
Actually this style of worship seemed more suited to an evening service or to a service at a retreat.
I guess I've trained myself to expect a sermon or message at my regular Sunday morning worship service.
Through August and next Sunday we've been having the other downtown UCC join us (wee joined them in July). I'm looking forward to getting back to our regular services.

Have to agree that it works better as an evening service. Hope next Sunday goes better for you at worship.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Isn't it hard to strike that balance between "what you need on Sunday morning to sustain you through the week" and "something outside of your comfort zone". Agreeing with Mrs. A. that if you're going to do a Taize service, you should do it "properly". If you're going to meditate, meditate.

 

[crazyheart]

I remember the first evening of Conference Annual meeting, after the closing they went around

asking people if they would do healing at different stations around the space.

People were taken aback. Lots said no Then they asked the delegates to go to a station and have

healing hands laid on them. Some people were crying, most of us didn't go. It was outside the comfort zone. Poor

planning by worship team and IMO ,it was inappropriate for Opening Night Worship. Most felt like seeler on Sunday morning.

.

 

[Luce NDs]

Healing is just not a good feeling to those with the BS they're already perfect ...

There's a flaw in this cognizance ... sort of like flies around pigs ears (and head mon)!

 

[revjohn]

August 27, 2017 was my final service of the St. Anthony Ministry Part 2.

Back to the unemployment line and the vacancy I had applied to in St. John's just confirmed that they are going with someone else.

I met one of my predecessors, the Rev. Dr. Phillip Johnson who served the St. Anthony Pastoral Charge from 1969 to 1971. He shared that he is an author so I have to look him up and see if I can get a hold of some of his work.

He was back in St. Anthony scouting locations for an upcoming movie about a new book of his.

 

[revsdd]

I remember the first evening of Conference Annual meeting, after the closing they went around

asking people if they would do healing at different stations around the space.

People were taken aback. Lots said no Then they asked the delegates to go to a station and have

healing hands laid on them. Some people were crying, most of us didn't go. It was outside the comfort zone. Poor

planning by worship team and IMO ,it was inappropriate for Opening Night Worship. Most felt like seeler on Sunday morning.

.

Just some thoughts:

Was it inappropriate just because a lot of people didn't want to experience what happened at the healing stations? Was what happened at the healing stations a positive experience of God for those who went to them? If so, why not just celebrate that they were positively impacted by the experience in a way that they might not have been had the opening worship been more "appropriate." Is worship supposed to be about keeping the majority comfortable? People tend to assume that the purpose of worship is to make us comfortable and/or pump us up for the week ahead. Maybe the purpose or goal of worship is (at least sometimes) to push us out of our comfort zones and make us experience God in different ways? Maybe we should celebrate those worship experiences that help others encounter God rather than lament those worship experiences that push us out of our comfort zone?

 

[Mendalla]

Maybe the purpose or goal of worship is (at least sometimes) to push us out of our comfort zones and make us experience God in different ways? Maybe we should celebrate those worship experiences that help others encounter God rather than lament those worship experiences that push us out of our comfort zone?

I like this. These questions really push at the heart of what it means to "worship". Being pushed out of our comfort zone isn't something any of us likes, but we do need it and why shouldn't the church be part of what does it? Otherwise, we get into the trap of the "comfortable pew" where church starts to look like just another social club.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Hmmm...but I think that's better done in more "small group" work. I think communal worship should be as communal as possible, and the more people you have pushed out of their comfort zones, the less likely it is that the result will feel worshipful?

 

[Mendalla]

Hmmm...but I think that's better done in more "small group" work. I think communal worship should be as communal as possible, and the more people you have pushed out of their comfort zones, the less likely it is that the result will feel worshipful?

So a sermon should be cozy and comforting, not challenging? Let's face it, even a sermon that asks hard questions or pushes new ideas will push some out of their comfort zone and I think that it is part of what makes a sermon.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Well, maybe that's not what I was trying to say. I like the idea of a communally agred upon liturgy, whereby, even if Rev Susan says something that makes us think, and squirm (I'm still squirming over something from Jordan Cantwell's sermon at our church), I know we'll start with the lighting of the Christ candle, have a prayer of confession and affirmation, read scriptures, have children's time, sermon, prayers of the people, benediction, etc.

 

[Mendalla]

Well, maybe that's not what I was trying to say. I like the idea of a communally agred upon liturgy, whereby, even if Rev Susan says something that makes us think, and squirm (I'm still squirming over something from Jordan Cantwell's sermon at our church), I know we'll start with the lighting of the Christ candle, have a prayer of confession and affirmation, read scriptures, have children's time, sermon, prayers of the people, benediction, etc.

Ah, so you're thinking more about the liturgy than the content. I like a good, simple liturgy as a base but some wiggle room to mix it up is nice. For instance, I did a service where we did poetry readings with commentary instead of a reading + sermon. Still kept most of the liturgical framework intact, but changed a few things in the sermon part. That said, we UUs seem to be less hung up on liturgy than a lot of Christians, probably because of the humanist tradition that is so strong in many of our congregations. My own preference for a solid liturgical base likely comes from growing up UCCan and Grandad's influence.

 

[crazyheart]

I have been thinking about this thread since |I got up. I respectfully disagree with revsdd .

I, too , think these type of services should be in small group settings. As I thought about it,

it reminds me of an altar call. I also thought that people are taught to do healing - not just

randomly pick people. The woman beside me was very offended when asked because she knew nothing

about it.

There is uncomfortable and there is discomfort and the latter,

it seems to me, will scare people off. New ways of doing prayers and the rest of the liturgy--------

some people can't read, some folk need to see or touch, some see different language inviting and ,so to sing

the lord's prayer or sign the lord's prayer or to say it repeating line for line is good for a congregation,

but to have folk get up in a

church and have them walk to have hands laid on and oil on their forehead is intimidating.

Church Services should touch our emotions but I don't think they should be emotional. I don't want to

see and hear people crying and sobbing.

We want to make what we do in church inclusive for all , friends and strangers alike.

These are MO only.

 

[Mendalla]

Church Services should touch our emotions but I don't think they should be emotional. I don't want to

see and hear people crying and sobbing.

How can they touch our emotions without it possibly being emotional for at least some? Becoming emotional is the risk of touching emotions. Something that makes you sigh wistfully might have me in tears.

 

[revsdd]

I have been thinking about this thread since |I got up. I respectfully disagree with revsdd .

Just curious - what are you disagreeing with for now? I just asked questions. Your disagreements should begin ... 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 - NOW!

I, too , think these type of services should be in small group settings.

In my last church, on the last Sunday of every month people were invited forward to be anointed and prayed with when the service ended. A man in the congregation who wanted no part of it later told me, but added "but when I thought about it, I realized that me not liking it is no reason to stop anyone from doing it." That was spiritual maturity in action. It was even a form of agape - caring about and even loving others enough to be willing to accept a degree of discomfort for their sake - because even if "they" were the minority, "they" were a part of the community. I described those services to my current Worship Committee. They want me to start offering it in September. So if you're ever in Ajax on the last Sunday of the month, I guess you better stay away.

it reminds me of an altar call.

Yup. Very much so in form. Although an altar call is usually to accept Christ. That was never the overt purpose of what I offered, but if it happened - wonderful!

I also thought that people are taught to do healing - not just

randomly pick people. The woman beside me was very offended when asked because she knew nothing

about it.

I wouldn't agree with just asking people to offer healing prayer or anointing. I have no problem with people being asked if they want healing prayer or anointing.

There is uncomfortable and there is discomfort and the latter,

No there's not. Basically the same thing.

it seems to me, will scare people off.

Unfortunately true. But, so - we can never change anything?

New ways of doing prayers and the rest of the liturgy--------

some people can't read, some folk need to see or touch, some see different language inviting and ,so to sing

the lord's prayer or sign the lord's prayer or to say it repeating line for line is good for a congregation

Doing new things in worship is good. These are things you like - but some of the new things are things you probably won't like. Is your dislike of them reason enough not to do them?

but to have folk get up in a

church and have them walk to have hands laid on and oil on their forehead is intimidating.

Not to the 25 or 30 people every week who used to come forward at my former church to have hands laid on them and be anointed. And, frankly, if such a simple thing that is well attested to in the New Testament is so intimidating that it's going to scare people away then that says a lot about why the church is having so many problems.

Church Services should touch our emotions but I don't think they should be emotional. I don't want to

see and hear people crying and sobbing.

I'm sorry that you don't want to see that, but if you agree that worship can touch our emotions then how do you prevent people sometimes from being so touched that they cry? And what do you do if someone starts to cry during the service. Ignore them? I've known people who've left the church because something touched them, they began to cry and no one seemed to care.

We want to make what we do in church inclusive for all , friends and strangers alike.

Respectfully, look at your sentence and compare it to what you've posted. What you want is to make what we do in church inclusive for all, friends and strangers alike - as long as everyone agrees to do it in the way that you're comfortable with. The reality is that inclusivity is a "buzzword" at best in the United Church and an idol at worst, because total inclusivity is impossible.

These are MO only.

That's what we do here is express our opinions. Most of us do it respectfully. That's how I've intended my response. I hope it's taken that way.

 

[Waterfall]

August 27, 2017 was my final service of the St. Anthony Ministry Part 2.

Back to the unemployment line and the vacancy I had applied to in St. John's just confirmed that they are going with someone else.

I met one of my predecessors, the Rev. Dr. Phillip Johnson who served the St. Anthony Pastoral Charge from 1969 to 1971. He shared that he is an author so I have to look him up and see if I can get a hold of some of his work.

He was back in St. Anthony scouting locations for an upcoming movie about a new book of his.

Do you have any other leads for ministry @revjohn?

 

[revjohn]

I remember the first evening of Conference Annual meeting, after the closing they went around

asking people if they would do healing at different stations around the space.

People were taken aback. Lots said no Then they asked the delegates to go to a station and have

healing hands laid on them.

I am unclear on the reporting.

they went around asking people if they would do healing at different stations

Did they ask people if they wanted to do healing or if they were able to do healing?

People were taken aback. Lots said no

How many are you personally aware of having said no. "Lots" gets thrown around frequently in group settings I am distrustful, in general of the qualification without a show of hands.

Then they asked the delegates to go to a station and have healing hands laid on them.

Asking isn't ordering though right? You weren't commanded to go and have hands laid upon you, you were invited to go to the stations if it was what you wanted.

Some people were crying,

Why? What is it about an invitation to participation that was so threatening to emotional well-being? Nobody was being forced to have anyone lay hands upon them. It was an invitation.

most of us didn't go. It was outside the comfort zone.

Most didn't is not the same as nobody went. So some bodies did go and somebodies did get some extra attention and spiritual care. Not exactly a disaster scenario or even ominous.

poor planning by worship team

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]An invitation spurned is not poor planning. At most it is a missed opportunity.

[/FONT]
and IMO ,it was inappropriate for Opening Night Worship.

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]Can't comment on the appropriateness that is very contextual and not sharing the particular context makes evaluation difficult. That said, when is prayer for anyone (with or without the laying on of hands) ever inappropriate in any worship service? If it was forced upon any then yes that is a problem. When it is an invitation? That is pastoral care in liturgy.

[/FONT]
Most felt like seeler on Sunday morning.

You know how most felt because you talked with all and kept a tally of responses?

 

[Waterfall]

I always thought that healing would be done by those given this gift or can anyone do it?