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I think in interpersonal relationships - in real meaningful relationships - others’ motivations are our business. You wouldn’t elect a politician whom you don’t know, who’s going to affect your life and/ or the future in some way, without knowing their motivations...at least without discerning some idea of their motivations. Why get close to someone without understanding what experiences shaped them and what their motivations are?...that doesn’t seem wise. It seems like a recipe for quite easily being hurt, used, or misunderstood.

I have much more respect for people with what might be considered poor social graces if they’re keeping it real, and I know their motivations are good and our core values are pretty much aligned...bossy, bitchy, cranky, rude, whatever...if they’re being real, and what’s behind that is about a passion for a greater good - or there’s an explanation for why they are in an unpleasant state and they are open about it...I can let that go pretty easily... than those who have perfect manners but dishonest motivations. Ever know someone who turns on the charm and is really nice to you only when they want something from you? I have, lots.
 
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I don't believe we can ever truly 'know' another person's 'motivations'. It is guesswork & assumption, based on many things - mostly one's own experiences and possibly a limited view & knowledge of the other person. Often people don't even know for themselves what may be motivating their own behaviours.
 
And the only way to determine someone else's motivation is to ask them. We cannot know what motivates them otherwise. All we know if we don't ask is their behaviour.
 
I think you can if they are open with you, and real, and vulnerable.

I had a falling out with a friend who did not have a sensor herself whatsoever. I met her in 2005 and she was my practicum supervisor, and almost my mom’s age but with a much younger daughter, she had as an older single mom - she raised her daughter herself, in the downtown east side after moving from urban Toronto...and fought for that community the entire time she lived there. (She left the field in of work we were in after a major restructuring of government funded programs, 2011, and opened a small store.) She was harsh. She said some harsh things to me. She yelled in my face when we disagreed. Some of them were way off base...some of them were true. Like, I was a naive girl from the island who never knew hardship like people with disabilities and other disadvantaged groups living in the downtown east side know hardship. That was true. That I lacked the courage of my convictions to stand up and fight against bad policy. True, to a point. I lacked confidence in myself, more-so. She’s perhaps overconfident, but she got things done. She was fearless about getting in people’s faces and telling it like it is...but sometimes her anger was misguided or misdirected and she hurt me, and made people uncomfortable because she came off as rude a lot. The reason we are no longer friends is not that, though. It’s due to a personal disagreement/ misunderstanding about money spent for my very tight budget wedding. My mom went ahead and purchased something she found cheaper than my friend was offering from her shop. I had no choice in the matter and I never promised to buy it from her. My husband and I had no money for many frills...it was a stretched thin shabby chic wedding. I think she expected my “rich” parents were showering us with money. Nothing could be further from the truth. She bailed on coming to it the morning of. Our friendship ended over my wedding, and money we truly didn’t have, basically. I felt hurt by her expectations, she was angry that I didn’t meet them. I think it was a big misunderstanding that never got resolved. However...

She is still one of the people I admire most out of anyone I’ve ever known, even if she wasn’t polite to me. I think her fierce advocacy and her grit and determination is amazing. She is very unconventional, and if you called her a loudmouth she’d wear it as a badge of honour...because she was usually, but not always, loud about the right things. She saved some people’s lives, lifted a lot of people off the ground, and brought attention...with pushback...to important issues. When she puts her mind to an important issue, she’s unstoppable. She also has a great sense of humour. It appears to me that she’s motivated by the right things, but they sometimes come out of her mouth the wrong way. She’s very argumentative. But if she weren’t a loud mouth she would not have done all the good she’s done for marginalized communities.

My point is sometimes you can still admire, even love, those who’ve hurt you...but not be compatible friends.
 
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Mrs.Anteater said:
Maybe that was confused with the conspiracy theory sidetrack in the other covid thread ( the personal one), which was actually done by Rita, not kimmio.
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Actually it was done by Northwind and Kimmio deciding that everything I said was based on Conspiracy Theory ... no matter how many times I produced documentation to demonstrate that there was an agenda ... no matter at all ... I am well adjusted to being railroaded into the conspiracy corner whenever I disagree with the 'norm' new or old.
 
Frankly I stopped reading or watching any of your "evidence" Rita. I'm all for learning new things and getting information from different sources. Heck, I've even watched some things from Fox News lately. :oops: I won't participate in discussions where any but the "approved" sources of information is dismissed. I gave up trying to understand the point you were making because you seem to contradict yourself quite often.
 
Ah Pinga. I have missed you here, but I chat with you on FB so I have always felt that our relationship continued beyond WC2.

I appreciate the bit about coming and going. While I never had the role you did in WC/WC2 I was an active poster for many years. I have pulled back off and on over the years. While I working on my PhD, and recently following my son's death. I know I sometimes find that it can be difficult to re-enter the community after some distance. Life and conversations carry on and it can be hard to return. At least that is how it has been for me.

There are many posters that I often think about and miss.
 
DaisyJane said:
Ah Pinga. I have missed you here, but I chat with you on FB so I have always felt that our relationship continued beyond WC2.

I appreciate the bit about coming and going. While I never had the role you did in WC/WC2 I was an active poster for many years. I have pulled back off and on over the years. While I working on my PhD, and recently following my son's death. I know I sometimes find that it can be difficult to re-enter the community after some distance. Life and conversations carry on and it can be hard to return. At least that is how it has been for me.

There are many posters that I often think about and miss.
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Oh, DaisyJane, we missed you ,too. Good to see you pop in again.
 
Hi Folks just an explanation of my absence I found w/c less captivating for me. My computer was breaking and I began using IPad more. I did not move wondercafe over.
Computer now changed. I pop in very occasionally. Last time was a wondermail from chansen. I see many of the posters on facebook. I enjoyed my time in this community and with these people. It really filled a void during my move and parenting troubled youth. I have mostly fond thoughts. I will continue to pop in infrequently. Stay well, stay safe. Tabitha
 
I am one of those who participate for a while, then step out for a while, then return for a while depending on what is happening in my life. I had at least 20 work changes in the last 20 years and I plan to retire for keeps, more or less, when I finish my current contract. I came back to WC2 this time becwus of the email and because I offered it as an option for the members of a church I am supervising to set up discussions. Their minister left at the end of June and their search committee is not feeling very optimistic about when they will have a minister again even though they do not have economic concerns and have up to date technology along with strong lay leaders. I found Facebook increasingly annoying for trying to have worthy , discussions and missed the good discussions we had here.

A theme on several internet publications is fatigue for religious leaders. Looking at the threads here and their participation or lack, I get the feeling that the Covid-19 fatigue may also be affecting WC2. I am sorry to read that Chansen is no longer participating. I appreciated his many contributions.

At our search committee meeting a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised to hear that I was more traditional in my preaching than what they had gotten used to under the previous minister. I promote a version of panenthiesm, critique most of the gospel stuff as material created by the various communities to serve their purposes and I am seen here as traditional. It made me wonder what traditional even means anymore.

I wish all of you the very best and hope all of you are able to have summer experiences that refresh you and lift you up. I will also try to start a few threads that can encourage worthy discussion.

Shalom, Jim
 
jimkenney12 said:
I am one of those who participate for a while, then step out for a while, then return for a while depending on what is happening in my life. I had at least 20 work changes in the last 20 years and I plan to retire for keeps, more or less, when I finish my current contract. I came back to WC2 this time becwus of the email and because I offered it as an option for the members of a church I am supervising to set up discussions. Their minister left at the end of June and their search committee is not feeling very optimistic about when they will have a minister again even though they do not have economic concerns and have up to date technology along with strong lay leaders. I found Facebook increasingly annoying for trying to have worthy , discussions and missed the good discussions we had here.

A theme on several internet publications is fatigue for religious leaders. Looking at the threads here and their participation or lack, I get the feeling that the Covid-19 fatigue may also be affecting WC2. I am sorry to read that Chansen is no longer participating. I appreciated his many contributions.

At our search committee meeting a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised to hear that I was more traditional in my preaching than what they had gotten used to under the previous minister. I promote a version of panenthiesm, critique most of the gospel stuff as material created by the various communities to serve their purposes and I am seen here as traditional. It made me wonder what traditional even means anymore.

I wish all of you the very best and hope all of you are able to have summer experiences that refresh you and lift you up. I will also try to start a few threads that can encourage worthy discussion.

Shalom, Jim
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Even tradition appears to shift ... even though contained in the eternal state ... by God that's the way it is!
 
Jim...your kind of traditional suits me. I think people don't want to delve into the thinking so much many times, and they want a flare, jokes, some kind of thing they wouldn't expect to see in church. Some friends boasted about their minister who appeared in shorts one day to illustrate a certain point. And many people I know from the non-traditional denominations talk about how much their messages relate to real life. I like to think that most United Church messages also relate to real life, while finding a Bible basis.
 
Humour and farcical things assist in escaping the pain of racism and its rebound effect! Then there is the deep throat syndrome ... another hole to lear into ...

Lady MacBeth ... killed the gander ... twas not a beauty ... but there's a hidden lesson there ... doddering is dangerous ... get out!Thus exodus and extraction before conception ... yet the dream remains for the other 'alve ...

"If somehow I can cause a lingering ..." that LAS ting effect ... oboe st!
 
I have removed myself from an area in Facebook as my goal had been to expand the moderator pool in a particular group, and then build up the skills of the group. I feel that has been accomplished as much as I can take it. (There are philosophical differences which mean that further changes are unlikely.)

It is good to have dropped that load; and though I am aware that I do not want to shift that level of energy here, I am also aware that the load was meaning that I didn't post here.

Will see how my participation shifts in the next few months.
 
Pinga said:
I have removed myself from an area in Facebook as my goal had been to expand the moderator pool in a particular group, and then build up the skills of the group. I feel that has been accomplished as much as I can take it. (There are philosophical differences which mean that further changes are unlikely.)

It is good to have dropped that load; and though I am aware that I do not want to shift that level of energy here, I am also aware that the load was meaning that I didn't post here.

Will see how my participation shifts in the next few months.
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I'm on a committee for a real life group now too. It's funny a fair bit of the issues from that still come from online interactions. Did a bit of damage control a few hours ago.
 
Real life is deadly if you listen to the Nous ... that captive loupe! May lead to leader paranoia ... a derivative ...


Fear erupts in the insecure as a result of not knowing beta ...
 
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