Wondercafe Participation

[PilgrimsProgress]

Thoughtful post, Pinga...........

You have assisted me on reflecting about Wondercafe and my participation.

For me, Wondercafe meant a lot to me initially. It was at a time after my husband's death, and I was in a transition time between receiving casseroles and rejoining real life. It reached its height when we had the Wondercafe picnic at Seven Oaks - which I will be forever grateful to you, Pinga, for your part in it becoming a reality. It brought me to Canada - and getting to know, not only your beautiful country, but also many of the Wondercafe folks in real life.

And that's the clue, for me at least.
Online doesn't have the same impact as real life.

Take chansen. After the novelty wore off, I was uninterested in his jibes about religion.
Yet when I met him personally in Toronto, and visited his son Carter in hospital, real life revealed a very likeable man with a good sense of humour and humanity. Also a very loving Dad. When Carter died, I felt it as keenly as a death in my own family.

When I think of those here that I have met in real life, I think of you - not by your post - but how I remember our real-life encounters. Every single one of you.

Pinga, I remember our visit to the wine tasting -and your generosity and your ever present smile and joy of life. I sense that you are at a time of transition in your own life?

I warmed to Crazyheart the moment she said to me over the phone, "I'm just trailer trash, honey". When she died, I could feel my interest in Wondercafe begin to be in it's Autumn days.........

Now, with this pandemic and my age, I doubt whether I'll ever visit your shores again. My loyalty will keep me around, but - without real-life contact - I do feel less involved.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I have lived my on-line life perpetually in search of "home". I occasionally find it, then it disappears again. Facebook is not "home", although strangely enough, it's 'the' place I meet with my family. My sisters both live well outside town, the rest of my relatives live in England, of my three children, one is in Oz, another on Salt Spring Island in B.C.

But I've gotta say, once a Wondercafe friend migrates to my regular FB feed, I don't worry as much about them here on WC. I had sensed, Pinga, that you wearied of "argument", I've also watched all your family/critter antics there, and we've yacked a bit, so I didn't comment on your missing here, and I would never want to reveal confidences from another place by saying a lot of "Pinga's having a lot of fun with new puppy". I know why DaisyJane is scarce, of course, I understand Steeler's challenges with the Dragon, etc.

But I do like a "home forum" for this kind of exchanges. My first home forum was called She-Net, bunch of LGBTQ friendly feminists. Petered out. Then I belonged to BeliefNet for many years, which is why I wasn't really active in the early years of WC. Once that folded, I wandered around a bit; I occasionally try to fit in on Ship of Fools, which works better if you're Anglican, frankly.

These things have their own dynamics. And they're not always predictable, although conflict always spurs interest; it is human nature - turning our head to watch the traffic accident.

 

[Pinga]

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses.

I get that some folks come & go, for some it is planned, for others, they kind of slow down, then just don't engage at all

I hear that when people leave that it can result in folks feeling hurt or deserted. Seeler mentioned that, and though that isn't the intent, I do not doubt that those feelings can occur.

I am also aware that I read that comment and sharing of hurt from Seeler : "On the other hand, I felt that you had abandoned me. I don't remember just when but it seemed that you just stopped posting. No notice; no farewell , no indication that I could pick up that this was happening. "

I appreciate honesty, but, I could not figure out how to respond. I felt guilty.
I didn't want to post to the site over the last day, coz I could not figure out how to respond and felt the burden that I needed to. After all, i was the one who named my departure and the items around it over it the last year.

I still am not sure how to respond. I am putting this post up as an attempt to not avoid the comment and acknowledge it.

I know at the time, that I had a lot going on, none of which I felt that WonderCafe could support. Dad's dementia was getting worse. Family items were ongoing. Work was busy with multiple contracts and transitions. Church was new.

Wondercafe was a burden, not a joy.
i looked at some posting history

This was one of my posts from the week before I really started to pull back in March 2019

My sister & I visited my father this past week. It was a bad time as it turns out. He was in bed. He was quite confused. A man came into his room who was ext seeking and confused. My father had to go to the washroom,. Things got wierd. Dad got angry. He couldnt' figure out how to use a toilet.
When he tried to leave his room, he was also angry. The change in colour from room to hall made him think it was a big drop. He was mad at us. It wasn't pretty.
Then, there was a disturbance with another person.

I am not sure that is life.

My mom died relatively quickly at a ripe old age.of 85. Dad is now 92. There are few moments of joy in his life.

My father is afraid of death. i remember him in the time between Mom dying and his loss of memory being concerned about "the pearly gates".

********************

I hope to see my children become old, but, I recognize that my life has likely been shortened by my cancer diagnosis and treatment.


I am not afraid of death, but I am surely not ready for it.
I want to live.

************

Then there was Chansen bringing a blowup from Facebook group into this site.

I understand. As an admin at that group I ask that there be time given for the mods to review the situation. @ChemGal is also an admin there.

Then my Dad died in October and well, this is all i posted.

Thank-you all for your thoughts and prayers.

Then in December Chansen was slagging the work of the moderators from a Facebook group in this site.
I had to try to mediate the facebook group through this site. Did not help my mood. I was disappointed in the use of this group to berate another one, and @Mendalla was kind enough to name the issue a couple of comments later.

Chansen, this is Pinga. You are incorrect in your assumptions.
If you have a challenge with the facebook group, then bring it to the moderators.

I know for a fact how that post was deleted, and it was an error by a moderator.

You know better.

so, basically, I havent' been here for about a year.

 

[revsdd]

I hear that when people leave that it can result in folks feeling hurt or deserted. Seeler mentioned that, and though that isn't the intent, I do not doubt that those feelings can occur.

On the old Wondercafe I decided to take a break for a few months and because I had been a regular poster I thought that some might notice my absence and so I did in fact post that I would be taking a break and not be around for a while. I got a number of what I would have to call snarky responses from people basically saying "Just take your break. No need to announce it." Sort of like I was being accused of thinking myself more important than I really was. Damned if you do and damned if you don't sometimes.

 

[ninj]

Certain posters made/make it impossible to have a meaningful discussion and were so ubiquitous, I almost left since these posters did/do their best to dominate the topic. I get really bored with the constant fundamental viewpoints from every side (I prefer not to be in an echo chamber, however and I certainly respect different opinions), but I can't believe the lack of respect and rudeness that shuts down conversations. I have zero interest in participating in a conversation with the same tired, predictable input.
I really miss the old WC where I could actually feel ok about sharing on the "serious" topics.....sigh.
Anyway though, my periodic absences aren't for any reason but lack of internet access.
I like this place.

 

[ninj]

Pinga, sounds like you had a difficult year or so. I am very sorry and hope better days are ahead for you and your family.

 

[Mendalla]

On the old Wondercafe I decided to take a break for a few months and because I had been a regular poster I thought that some might notice my absence and so I did in fact post that I would be taking a break and not be around for a while. I got a number of what I would have to call snarky responses from people basically saying "Just take your break. No need to announce it." Sort of like I was being accused of thinking myself more important than I really was. Damned if you do and damned if you don't sometimes.

I tend to not announce comings and goings save to Council, since they might need admin help at any time. And even when I am taking break from reading and posting, I may still be doing admin stuff or tinkering and testing in the background. Xenforo and managing the site has become a bit of a hobby for me. Might start another forum or do some forum admin contract work someday. But, yeah, I do find a need to just not read or post here from time to time.

 

[Pinga]

Pinga, sounds like you had a difficult year or so. I am very sorry and hope better days are ahead for you and your family.

Yes, it surprised even me that that was basically the extent of my visits in a year.

 

[chansen]

Hey have any of you heard of COVID-19?

I had a fun exchange with Richard Bott last night on Facebook, so I wanted to share it to WC2, despite swearing to myself that I would never come back. I was going to put it in it's own thread but I think I'll put it here instead.

The Reader's Digest version is Richard posted the idea of baptism-by-watering-can from 2m above to achieve physical distancing:

It was too perfect to not reply.

Someone below made the comment about the joy of having friends who tease you:

And of course, because Richard's FB is heavily populated by United Church types, someone had to post this:

Which is, of course, something that I instinctively have fun with:

But Richard's comment was spot-on, and he approached me nicely, so I took it down. I took this screenshot immediately because he did such a bang up job.

Afterward we had a long private chat last night about humour, how I was trying to find the line and tap dance on it with the waterboarding line, and how he approached me about a comment that could not stand. I told him that was perfect how he approached me to take down my own post so that neither side got their backs up, and to teach the UCCan social media people how to do this.

I post this here because this is what I miss about this place. It happens so rarely at Facebook, and you can't do it at the FB group because that's wall-to-wall Nisse Gardners. And it's not just admins and moderators - users can delete their own posts or remove me from their content. Pinga, you even issued me a stern "warning" at some point. I do not willingly go anywhere to get stern warnings from people I know.

Pinga, I understand I brought forth some of my complaints at bad times for you. I'm sorry for that timing. In some instances I should have at least waited.

In truth I've had my back up here for years since the Aaron apology fiasco. That was bulls**t, the idea that a post of mine that unknowingly bypassed a thread lock and therefore would not allow Aaron to reply in that thread (but could elsewhere) was worth forcing a false apology out of me, especially given how Aaron had a history of deleting many of my better posts at WC1 for no defensible reasons.

And then this past March, I had an exchange with Betsy that convinced me that I was done with the United Church Facebook group. I made a rather serious reply and announced my departure, you announced my departure when people still tried to reply to me, and then Betsy took a final swing at me even though I could not reply, essentially saying that my anti-theistic humour comes from the loss of my son. Absolutely nothing obvious happens to her, her post, and no apology to me or anything.

United Church of Canada | Facebook

For anyone who is affiliated with the United Church of Canada. Past and present members, adherents and staff are welcome. The views posted here are those...

www.facebook.com

That tells me you were just mad at me years ago about something I said about people you defend and you used the mere existence of my post to get everybody worked up and demand an apology out of me. That was, and remains, complete bulls**t. I've given up on the idea of Aaron ever apologizing for abusing his admin privileges with me at the old site. With me leaving the FB group, I have no overlap with him anymore so he doesn't matter. But if you don't think you screwed up with me over that forced apology, then I'll always have that axe to grind and it will be better for all if I simply remove myself from here permanently.

 

[Waterfall]

Hey have any of you heard of COVID-19?

I had a fun exchange with Richard Bott last night on Facebook, so I wanted to share it to WC2, despite swearing to myself that I would never come back. I was going to put it in it's own thread but I think I'll put it here instead.

The Reader's Digest version is Richard posted the idea of baptism-by-watering-can from 2m above to achieve physical distancing:

It was too perfect to not reply.

Someone below made the comment about the joy of having friends who tease you:

And of course, because Richard's FB is heavily populated by United Church types, someone had to post this:

Which is, of course, something that I instinctively have fun with:

But Richard's comment was spot-on, and he approached me nicely, so I took it down. I took this screenshot immediately because he did such a bang up job.

Afterward we had a long private chat last night about humour, how I was trying to find the line and tap dance on it with the waterboarding line, and how he approached me about a comment that could not stand. I told him that was perfect how he approached me to take down my own post so that neither side got their backs up, and to teach the UCCan social media people how to do this.

I post this here because this is what I miss about this place. It happens so rarely at Facebook, and you can't do it at the FB group because that's wall-to-wall Nisse Gardners. And it's not just admins and moderators - users can delete their own posts or remove me from their content. Pinga, you even issued me a stern "warning" at some point. I do not willingly go anywhere to get stern warnings from people I know.

Pinga, I understand I brought forth some of my complaints at bad times for you. I'm sorry for that timing. In some instances I should have at least waited.

In truth I've had my back up here for years since the Aaron apology fiasco. That was bulls**t, the idea that a post of mine that unknowingly bypassed a thread lock and therefore would not allow Aaron to reply in that thread (but could elsewhere) was worth forcing a false apology out of me, especially given how Aaron had a history of deleting many of my better posts at WC1 for no defensible reasons.

And then this past March, I had an exchange with Betsy that convinced me that I was done with the United Church Facebook group. I made a rather serious reply and announced my departure, you announced my departure when people still tried to reply to me, and then Betsy took a final swing at me even though I could not reply, essentially saying that my anti-theistic humour comes from the loss of my son. Absolutely nothing obvious happens to her, her post, and no apology to me or anything.

United Church of Canada | Facebook

For anyone who is affiliated with the United Church of Canada. Past and present members, adherents and staff are welcome. The views posted here are those...

www.facebook.com

That tells me you were just mad at me years ago about something I said about people you defend and you used the mere existence of my post to get everybody worked up and demand an apology out of me. That was, and remains, complete bulls**t. I've given up on the idea of Aaron ever apologizing for abusing his admin privileges with me at the old site. With me leaving the FB group, I have no overlap with him anymore so he doesn't matter. But if you don't think you screwed up with me over that forced apology, then I'll always have that axe to grind and it will be better for all if I simply remove myself from here permanently.

You should really come back here and keep us on our toes.......

 

[Northwind]

I agree with @Waterfall .

 

[revjohn]

Rev. John, I'm sorry to see you leave, and I miss your thoughtful posts. And I think you gave notice that you would be dropping out.,

I regularly give notice when I am heading up to St. Anthony for the summer. Just never really picked it up again in September.

Perhaps you will drop in again Sometimes when things settle down for you.
By the way, congratulations on your new church. Way to go!

Thank you. My appointment ends July 30th and on July 1st I begin a call at George Street United. So I will spend the last month and a bit doing some preparation for my transition from place-holder to a permanent fixture.

I'll miss seeing and hearing about your beautiful grandson, and those energetic dogs.

Qball is still a growing concern. I get videos of him up on Facebook. Just have the one dog now, Daisy our two-year-old. She treed her first cat in the middle of our three acres yesterday. The hares and the grouse still manage to escape and she is chasing bluejays now also. Once a video goes up on Facebook I generally don't post it to other media I'll make an exception here with Daisy's first catch and Q and I out cleaning up some brush. I let him try on my protective gear. I did not let him try the chainsaw.

 

[Pinga]

And then this past March, I had an exchange with Betsy that convinced me that I was done with the United Church Facebook group. I made a rather serious reply and announced my departure, you announced my departure when people still tried to reply to me, and then Betsy took a final swing at me even though I could not reply, essentially saying that my anti-theistic humour comes from the loss of my son. Absolutely nothing obvious happens to her, her post, and no apology to me or anything.

United Church of Canada | Facebook

For anyone who is affiliated with the United Church of Canada. Past and present members, adherents and staff are welcome. The views posted here are those...

www.facebook.com

That tells me you were just mad at me years ago about something I said about people you defend and you used the mere existence of my post to get everybody worked up and demand an apology out of me. That was, and remains, complete bulls**t. I've given up on the idea of Aaron ever apologizing for abusing his admin privileges with me at the old site. With me leaving the FB group, I have no overlap with him anymore so he doesn't matter. But if you don't think you screwed up with me over that forced apology, then I'll always have that axe to grind and it will be better for all if I simply remove myself from here permanently.

WTF Craig. Seriously.

I was mad at you, and I orchestrated it.????

You are seriously disillusioned.

If you didn't realize, that fiasco was occurring, with Betsy's post on March 12th ins "on Facebook", the week of the shutdown and COVID. The last thing that I had time for was to coddle you and your emotional response, and long-time baggage re Aaron., nor Aaron's long-time baggage re you ins. "on Facebook"

The fact that you continue to hold a grudge, and bring it up here ins "on wondercafe", when the world has forgotten about it, speaks volumes as well.

I am not going to get into a dialogue with you on this one on this site. You know how to reach me on FaceBook if you want a discussion one-on-one.
You also know that Chemgal is a moderator ins "of the Facebook group", if you want further information or to take something in to the moderator team in the FaceBook group.

The fact that I am an Admin, not a moderator, ins "of the Facebook group and the wondercafe group" seems to have slipped your mind.
I do my best to NOT moderate, unless timeliness is an item.

I also do my best to represent the whole, even if I am not on the same page. You have NO FRICKING CLUE. said loudly and with emphasis, what kind of dialogues go on in the back, and what ends up being consensus. Nor should you. The fact that I even admit that we don't always agree is outside of my norm.

So, go ahead.

Throw your paranoid accusations of what went down on a Facebook group, into the wondercafe2 forums. I will leave it to the moderators here to decide if that is a valid use of wondercafe2.

I for one, will let people make up their own minds, but i am not going to engage with you on it.

*** edited for clarity.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Bye. The lack of humility by those in charge bothers me. Generally, and here too. Even a little power is easily abused - and when people have it they can't help but show it and if you challenge and defend yourself with facts they don't want to hear, they will gang up - I would rather not participate anymore. Real life has enough of that bs already.

 

[Pinga]

Excuse me, Kimmio? Who are you referring to? and what frickin' power are you referring to?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Bye. Take care.

 

[Pinga]

Be well.

 

[chansen]

I hope you find someone new to lecture, Pinga. I'm out.

Edit: I need to add that I really, really appreciate the kind words from some of you above. And Seeler, I'm sorry again that I called you a liar years ago over some atheist who insisted religion should be banned, if I recall correctly. I got so sure of myself over calling out Christian lies (it was difficult keeping up with some of them at the old site especially) that I didn't believe you and assumed you were making it up.

 

[Pinga]

You want to accuse me, you better be prepared to stand up with some facts, Chansen. You know how to reach me.

 

[Seeler]

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses.

I get that some folks come & go, for some it is planned, for others, they kind of slow down, then just don't engage at all

I hear that when people leave that it can result in folks feeling hurt or deserted. Seeler mentioned that, and though that isn't the intent, I do not doubt that those feelings can occur.

I am also aware that I read that comment and sharing of hurt from Seeler : "On the other hand, I felt that you had abandoned me. I don't remember just when but it seemed that you just stopped posting. No notice; no farewell , no indication that I could pick up that this was happening. "

I appreciate honesty, but, I could not figure out how to respond. I felt guilty.
I didn't want to post to the site over the last day, coz I could not figure out how to respond and felt the burden that I needed to. After all, i was the one who named my departure and the items around it over it the last year.
I still am not sure how to respond. I am putting this post up as an attempt to not avoid the comment and acknowledge it

Pinga, at the time you were composing this, I was composing a private message to you to apologize some of the things I said in my earlier post. Perhaps some of them could have been worded better, or as a private conversation between us two. Once started, perhaps it is better to keep it in this thread.

You do not need to feel guilty. You said something about feeling that nobody missed you. You are entitled to your feelings, but when I read this I became defensive, thinking 'I missed you, and surely I am somebody.' So I reacted badly. Instead of acknowledging your feelings, and felt hurt and abandoned.
We all carry a lot of luggage from the past. My feeling abandoned is part of that luggage, and I should acknowledge it is my problem, not yours.

We've both had a difficult year. I am trying to imagine what it must've been like for you in dealing with your father's dementia. Perhaps there was a way that I could have been more supportive. As for the conflict between you and Chansen mentioned in your recent post; I don't think I was aware of it at all. Again, my fault in not picking up on subtle clues.

I hope we can put all this behind us and remain friends. I would like to visit you again sometime, and see your beautiful home and grounds - but with this covid 19 restrictions on travel, it seems unlikely. Time goes by, and I'm not getting any younger.