TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

[Luce NDs]

I've been reading the coverage of Trump's speech last night. Yes - it was based on fear. No surprise there. That's his strategy. That's what's won him the Republican nomination. But don't think it wasn't effective. The delivery was so much better than I've seen from him in the past. Less out of control, fewer diversions, no really personal insults toward opponents, Ted Cruz ignored (when some were speculating that Trump might lambast Cruz over the non-endorsement,) attacks on Clinton - who's very susceptible to attacks - but no immature references to "Crooked Hillary." Frankly, the teleprompter worked. It kept him organized. The content was the same - but the delivery was much more polished. He came across to me as a very negative Ronald Reagan. Both equally devoid of any really organized policy ideas, but Reagan was optimistic and appealed to Americans' hopes; Trump was pessimistic and appealed to Americans' fears - but the communication was there, in my opinion. That makes it more effective. The fact is he's appealing to a dark underside of American society that could well elect him president. AS I said back a few posts, most news coverage of polls has focused on Hillary leading. CNN reported recently however that a succession of polls has shown a very competitive race in the essential "swing states" that actually elect the president nowadays - basically Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. They're basically tied in those states, one or the other slightly ahead, within the margin of error. Ohio and Pennsylvania especially are susceptible to isolationist sentiment because of fear over job losses. I'm not counting Trump out, and I personally think the Democrats have a very weak and vulnerable candidate who inspires very little enthusiasm from anyone based on what I've seen.

When one appeals to the fears instead of the hopes ... does this indicate that the hopes are way back in the abstract we call mind ... and thus people aren't utilizing much intelligence and wisdom?

Such things prompt me to the humour of escape-ism ... satyr IHC lye speaking! Is there any incidence of true sincerity when they degrade to fear and anger? Read Ian Kershaw on Hubris ... Hitler's Method-ist arising ...

 

[Seeler]

What a person considers rich, well paid, comfortable, poor, etc. depends upon their own economic position. I know a wife of a retired UCC minister who is always complaining about how careful she has to be - buying her cloths at a second hand store, growing her own vegetables and freezing them for the winter, saving seeds and starting her own plants, walking or biking rather than driving or taking a bus, carrying her own lunch to a noonhour meeting when a soup and sandwich is available for a donation. I admire the fact that she is careful but I think she is taking it to extremes and when she complain to me (for the umpteenth time) about how small her husband's pension is, along with both their OAS and CPP, I ask if they get the low income supplement for seniors. No, she admitted, she didn't think so. 'Then you are better off than my husband and I am.' And I am comfortable compared to people living on Assistance (Welfare) who havve to choose between a cheap rented room and eating regularly - and who depend upon charity of churches, food bank, and community kitchen for day to day living expenses.

 

[Waterfall]

So Trump has declared bankruptcy four times in the last 25 years....oh excuse me, it wasn't him that declared bankruptcy, it was his corporations. He has never filed for personal bankruptcy, just his corporations....he says, "successful businesses file for bankruptcy all the time".....hmmm, well now we know how the national debt can be resolved.
In fact less than 20% of public businesses with over 1 billion in asssets, have filed for bankruptcy over the last 30 years.

 

[Luce NDs]

So Trump has declared bankruptcy four times in the last 25 years....oh excuse me, it wasn't him that declared bankruptcy, it was his corporations. He has never filed for personal bankruptcy, just his corporations....he says, "successful businesses file for bankruptcy all the time".....hmmm, well now we know how the national debt can be resolved.
In fact less than 20% of public businesses with over 1 billion in asssets, have filed for bankruptcy over the last 30 years.

Is bankruptcy a convenience to some people making mistakes in Hadassah ... the market place they really don't understand?

In my experience with a limited number of corporate entities ... it is too convenient as compared to personal states ... mental bankruptcy?

 

[Mendalla]

I've been reading the coverage of Trump's speech last night. Yes - it was based on fear. No surprise there. That's his strategy. That's what's won him the Republican nomination. But don't think it wasn't effective. The delivery was so much better than I've seen from him in the past. Less out of control, fewer diversions, no really personal insults toward opponents, Ted Cruz ignored (when some were speculating that Trump might lambast Cruz over the non-endorsement,) attacks on Clinton - who's very susceptible to attacks - but no immature references to "Crooked Hillary." Frankly, the teleprompter worked. It kept him organized. The content was the same - but the delivery was much more polished. He came across to me as a very negative Ronald Reagan. Both equally devoid of any really organized policy ideas, but Reagan was optimistic and appealed to Americans' hopes; Trump was pessimistic and appealed to Americans' fears - but the communication was there, in my opinion. That makes it more effective. The fact is he's appealing to a dark underside of American society that could well elect him president. AS I said back a few posts, most news coverage of polls has focused on Hillary leading. CNN reported recently however that a succession of polls has shown a very competitive race in the essential "swing states" that actually elect the president nowadays - basically Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. They're basically tied in those states, one or the other slightly ahead, within the margin of error. Ohio and Pennsylvania especially are susceptible to isolationist sentiment because of fear over job losses. I'm not counting Trump out, and I personally think the Democrats have a very weak and vulnerable candidate who inspires very little enthusiasm from anyone based on what I've seen.

What impressed me was Ivanka's delivery of her introductory speech. She's a better public speaker than her old man, if you ask me. And they rather cleverly made her the voice of Trump's take on women's issues and had her addressing his supposed sexism. I hadn't realized she was his executive VP. Thought she more or less had her own thing going in the fashion business.

 

[revsdd]

Ivanka is the star of the family in many ways. From everything I've heard and read she's literally the Donald's right hand - far more than either of his two sons, and quite possibly a lot smarter than her dad. I could easily see her having a future in politics.

 

[Jaebius]

The average United Church minister makes $65000 per year? The average United Church minister would probably be surprised to discover that.

So I said, "about" $65,000. All of the UCCanada ministers I've known have been making at least that much. The minister of the UCCanada church I went to here in Toronto when I was a kid was making roughly $80,000 a year, and that was back in the 70's.

I've been in the ministry for 22 years. I'm in the highest salary category the United Church has. My congregation pays me about a 15% premium over the minimum required salary. I make slightly more than what you're citing as the "average," with a church in an area where the average house sells for well over $400000 and is rapidly rising. Yeah. Sweet deal that.

$400,000 is not expensive for a house. In my neighborhood, simple bungalows go for around $750,000 each. Making over $65,000 is a sweet deal. You're a blessed man Steven.

I'm not complaining. I didn't go into the ministry to make lots of money. And we're comfortable enough. And I've known lots of pastors in evangelical churches who don't really seem to be hurting either. It's not a lucrative calling, and it requires sacrifices, and you don't have all the toys that others - including your parishioners - have, but you get to make a difference in people's lives, and it is satisfying - unless you start getting jealous and focusing on what others have that you don't.

What is it your parishioners have that you feel you're missing out on?

 

[crazyheart]

@Seeler, you know, Seeler, I know a retired minister's wife who was of the old school.

She was an unpaid member of the UCCAN. It was expected. For all she did, she was not paid, lived in

manses most of her life. I am sure you all know one. Very frugal.

Took brown paper bags home and reused for lunch. Took all the plastic cutlery and plates

home, washed them and used them over.

I am sure they had mucho money when they retired. Their life became dementia in nursing homes.

She had no life really. She was the Good Wife in the bible.

Sad really.

 

[revsdd]

So I said, "about" $65,000. All of the UCCanada ministers I've known have been making at least that much. The minister of the UCCanada church I went to here in Toronto when I was a kid was making roughly $80,000 a year, and that was back in the 70's.

You've known some extremely well paid United Church ministers then. You obviously move among the upper crusts. Having done a lot of pastoral relations work for a lot of years, and having chaired that Committee in different Presbyteries on various occasions (that's the Committee that would deal with terms of call including salary) I don't think I've ever dealt with a call that had a salary of $80000. Not even close.

Out of curiosity I checked the Yearbook statistics. In the two Presbyteries located in the City of Toronto, there are three congregations paying over $80000. Of the 105 United Church congregations listed, the average ministerial salary seems to work out somewhere a little less than $28000/year.

In my own Presbytery east of Toronto, no one makes over $80000, although the average salary appears to be slightly higher, at about $29,500/year.

$400,000 is not expensive for a house. In my neighborhood, simple bungalows go for around $750,000 each.

Over $400000 would be not for a bungalow, but for a pretty small townhouse with very little land.

Making over $65,000 is a sweet deal. You're a blessed man Steven.

I am a blessed man. Money has nothing to do with that blessing. If money were what I worried about I would have been more than able to find a career that would have paid me much more. In addition to being blessed, I am also content.

What is it your parishioners have that you feel you're missing out on?

I don't feel I'm "missing out" on anything. I don't spend my time wishing I had what other people have. It is, however, a fact that I cannot afford some of the things my parishioners can afford. Two (or more) cars. Boats. Cottages. Annual (or more) vacations away. And I need none of those things. Don't even particularly desire them. As I said, I'm quite content with what I have.

You, on the other hand, don't sound content - at least not in this thread. You actually seem rather bothered by the salary you think United Church ministers make.

God will provide.

Anyway, discussion of salaries and how much money ministers make has little to do with Donald Trump, so having provided that background, I'm done with the subject.

 

[Waterfall]

@Seeler, you know, Seeler, I know a retired minister's wife who was of the old school.

She was an unpaid member of the UCCAN. It was expected. For all she did, she was not paid, lived in

manses most of her life. I am sure you all know one. Very frugal.

Took brown paper bags home and reused for lunch. Took all the plastic cutlery and plates

home, washed them and used them over.

I am sure they had mucho money when they retired. Their life became dementia in nursing homes.

She had no life really. She was the Good Wife in the bible.

Sad really.

Ha, except for the mucho money at retirement, you just described my mother! My father made $6500/year in the 60's and 70's. House expenses all paid and like revdd he bought a brand new car every 10 years....no air conditioning and nothing power. We never had a colour TV growing up, even when they came out. (my mother said they will never catch on, LOL) We'd go to a restaurant about once a year and my 3 siblings and I had to split one dinner between two of us. Clothes and bikes were passed down.Still grew up happy though.

 

[Luce NDs]

Ha, except for the mucho money at retirement, you just described my mother! My father made $6500/year in the 60's and 70's. House expenses all paid and like revdd he bought a brand new car every 10 years....no air conditioning and nothing power. We never had a colour TV growing up, even when they came out. (my mother said they will never catch on, LOL) We'd go to a restaurant about once a year and my 3 siblings and I had to split one dinner between two of us. Clothes and bikes were passed down.Still grew up happy though.

Do some ministers live in Egypt ... once said to be the land of imagination and dreams ... why the dream master had to go there and assist the far roués ... then there was a pharaoh's wife as an essence ... god essence? Such things blow through like the trains in Fried Green Potatoes ... related to potatoes served with barbecued pork that might not be what the sheriff thought! Thus the human/piggy connection ... don't poke, or project upon it ... a psychic thing!

 

[Luce NDs]

Did you know that many people do not believe psyche exists ... thus the out-of-here conception ...?

She is off there with Sophia ... like Trump in a humble, dissociated situation compared to the norm!

As usual I do not know what to think as I'm not supposed to ... thinking men are dangerous --- some Rome antic ... seize'urs?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I just read in the Independent that 75% of Americans thought Donald Trump's speech was positive. I don't get it. It was debunked to have several untruths in it while he promised, in his speech, not to lie. Are people that easily swayed by a man with a dismal approval rating after one long teleprompter speech full of hyperbole?

I read earlier that Europeans were calling it gloomy and apocalyptic.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Roflmo!!!! Colbert 's description of Trump: " looks like an Angry Creamsicle"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...National-Convention-Late-Stephen-Colbert.html

 

[revsdd]

I can't help thinking that all in all I'd be feeling much happier about the presidential race if Mike Pence and Tim Kaine were the presidential candidates instead of the vice presidential candidates.

 

[Waterfall]

I can't help thinking that all in all I'd be feeling much happier about the presidential race if Mike Pence and Tim Kaine were the presidential candidates instead of the vice presidential candidates.

Well Trump is 70 years old.......

 

[Jaebius]

Well Trump is 70 years old.......

Your point being what exactly Waterfall? He wouldn't be the only senior who has ever been President. Others include Reagan, Harrison, Buchanan, Bush, Taylor, and Eisenhower.

 

[Waterfall]

Your point being what exactly Waterfall? He wouldn't be the only senior who has ever been President. Others include Reagan, Harrison, Buchanan, Bush, Taylor, and Eisenhower.

Just saying....nothing against the elderly, he just doesn't look too healthy....although his doctor says he is in perfect health for a man his age.

 

[revsdd]

Just saying....nothing against the elderly, he just doesn't look too healthy....although his doctor says he is in perfect health for a man his age.

Not a lot has been made about the age of the candidates in this election, but by historical standards the two main candidates are quite old compared to others who've sought the presidency over the years.

Trump would, if elected, be the oldest person ever to assume office as President. He'd be about 70 years and 7 months old. That would beat out Reagan, who turned 70 a couple of weeks after being inaugurated. In fairness, Hillary Clinton would be the second oldest person to take office as president. She would be 69 years and 3 months. Only Ronald Reagan would have been older. If we take 65 as the age at which a person becomes a senior, it is in fact unusual for a senior citizen to assume office as president. Only three have done that: William Henry Harrison in 1841, James Buchanan in 1857, and Ronald Reagan in 1981. Others, as Jae notes, have turned 65 while in office.

I don't actually agree with your reflection about Trump's health. He looks perfectly healthy to me.

For the sake of trivia, the youngest person ever to become president was Theodore Roosevelt, who was a month and a half shy of 43 when he took office in 1901 after William McKinley was assassinated. The youngest person ever elected president was John Kennedy, who was 43 years and 7 months when he took office in 1961.

 

[Waterfall]

In my business we have to report incidents of verbal abuse...against women, racist remarks, etc....not sure why the president is allowed to ramble on without being called on it other than just being disgusted.