TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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Mendalla said:
Right, but he saw the change in religious, not political, terms - a spiritual revival among the Jews leading to a return to true holiness. The overturning of the tables had nothing to do with Romans or government; it was protesting the practice of commerce in a holy place. It was very much about the corruption of religion. I highly doubt he had any intention of overthrowing the Empire; that would come with the coming of God's Kingdom. See, I don't think Jesus meant the coming of the Kingdom metaphorically. He sincerely believed in it and thought it would come shortly after the end of his ministry/life. So did his followers and early Christians like Paul. There was no expectation of the message resonating with people in 2000 years because by then we would be living in the kingdom.
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The original separation of church and state by a thinking power (processing juda; juda being interpreted as an unseen power).

Then is light unseen until bounced off something obstinate or obtuse? Plural of obtuse ... ЂOB-teased, recently translated to nOB -teased, or cognizant dissonance? When m'n looses it, or all is Luce 'dup ... then it(E) goes into the dark and Shadowlands ... where intelligence hides out ...
 
chansen said:
So, the Kingdom is still in preseason? Everyone always complains that preseason is too long.
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On needs only a turn of hand to get the shadow out of the palming off ...

Kind 'a like (n) ... (y) in the Rome Antic Games ... one upmanship ... one downed vessel or eve in the other way around ... as twilight zones fall ...
 
Pr. Jae said:
I think the delay is because the Coach is giving time for more players to join the team.
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Which team those coming on with the going off syndrome ... isolationists? Take a wee spark with yah ... good for seeing your aspirations ... dreams and fears all in a dark voided place?
 
Luce NDs said:
Which team those coming on with the going off syndrome ... isolationists? Take a wee spark with yah ... good for seeing your aspirations ... dreams and fears all in a dark voided place?
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Which team? Why, that's a metaphor con, a metaphor. An allegory cue. I'm caring I believe that God is timing the ecshaton Co actually to alow time for more folks to enter the Sandoz.
 
San 'd Oz'rs? Those ploughing thro' dah grits as if free to do anything without responsibility to that they are related to? Clam ladies ... or related mol*esques the shut up psyche ... silent? Listen to the silence .. talk to yourself a bit! The silence is spread out on the horseman buoyed as Yeoman ... pageboy! Read into it in the quiet times ...

You're right into Rod Neigh Danger field's warning zone ... das Reich ... or rich in how "not to hate" if you collect the richness of the how not to chit ... with the absence of love ... one must hate ... alas few believe in absence or things on the other side of where collapse has occurred to support somnolence ... tis a small point in the larger darkness ... eternal exception to the mortal Zo'ans? But then who knows such far out concerns as "AN"?

Don't worry? Be anal .. this too will pas ... metaphor of san ... stuff beyond us mortals unless you're contaminated with alien intelligence! Thus isolation, denial, or out'th-Eire states ... easily accomplished if you say something strange to an authority that knows everything ... God Hearse-lf? Tis a Black Beauty with a trumpet ... Lo'is?

Such things could cause a stretch of soul ... angst ... or other dissonance! Keep calm bi ... slip bi unnoticed by saying in sane things ... the understanding bean buried in say'ns ... that's the particular dis formation of word as previously redacted by men believing they were authorities in dark things ... as*ole encryptions?

Abu original He brewing function or perhaps even older kind of thorn ... the pain of learning about the use of cats and catharsis?

LGKing as Reich meister would call this pneumatic furies, or hypo nautical winds ... as they come of Zei der Zea ... the sum of water gathered after the personality split ... GEO Ghia could tell you about dykes and Wahl's that separate the lo' landers ... feudalistic brethren ? Suck it up so you'll know how not to dew-it ... if you don't like consequential flo' ve things following reason ability ... a rare ether ... just contemplate me a mettlin with the midlands ... a thin aria ...
 
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Dallas; guns, what we need is more G-unes .. Big Unes ... strong goddesses to take us out of this Maas ... huge Cana's but if we do not understand the Cana as icon of reflection would it be like Rome antic Brahma ... BS?
 
Mendalla said:
Right, but he saw the change in religious, not political, terms - a spiritual revival among the Jews leading to a return to true holiness. The overturning of the tables had nothing to do with Romans or government; it was protesting the practice of commerce in a holy place. It was very much about the corruption of religion.
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In my opinion He was protesting the killing of animals or any life as a sacrifice to God for commerce in a holy place. God hates sacrifice. Jesus said so too: Mathew 12:7
OT: Isaiah 66:3, Micah 6:6-8, Hoses 6:6, Samuel 15:22
Which makes me wonder why WE believe this was God's will to have Jesus sacrificed......
 
Waterfall said:
Mathew 12:7
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Don't really see your point supported by this. Reading all of Matthew 12 from 1-14 (sorry, you can't pull verses out of context with me), this is really more about Jesus taking on the legalist types about what is allowed on the Sabbath and teaching that mercy trumps "sacrifice", meaning ritual and law take a backseat when there is hunger or illness to be dealt with. No references to animal sacrifice that I can see and I think he is really shooting broader than any specific act of sacrifice here, speaking generally about the attitude of the temple elites that ritual ("sacrifice", which they control) has some kind of supreme place. It certainly does reflect the attitude that Jesus took into cleansing of the temple.
 
One of the rationale I have for maintaining that Jesus was directly opposed to the political order (albeit non-violently, assuming that one considers knocking over of tables to be 'non-violent') is his fate. He was executed by a legitimate government for a political crime.
 
Mendalla said:
Don't really see your point supported by this. Reading all of Matthew 12 from 1-14 (sorry, you can't pull verses out of context with me), this is really more about Jesus taking on the legalist types about what is allowed on the Sabbath and teaching that mercy trumps "sacrifice", meaning ritual and law take a backseat when there is hunger or illness to be dealt with. No references to animal sacrifice that I can see and I think he is really shooting broader than any specific act of sacrifice here, speaking generally about the attitude of the temple elites that ritual ("sacrifice", which they control) has some kind of supreme place. It certainly does reflect the attitude that Jesus took into cleansing of the temple.
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If we "bind" God's laws (sacrifice becomes literal and allegory) mercy cannot be seen and they are hidden. Just my opinion I suppose.

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Mendalla said:
Don't really see your point supported by this. Reading all of Matthew 12 from 1-14 (sorry, you can't pull verses out of context with me), this is really more about Jesus taking on the legalist types about what is allowed on the Sabbath and teaching that mercy trumps "sacrifice", meaning ritual and law take a backseat when there is hunger or illness to be dealt with. No references to animal sacrifice that I can see and I think he is really shooting broader than any specific act of sacrifice here, speaking generally about the attitude of the temple elites that ritual ("sacrifice", which they control) has some kind of supreme place. It certainly does reflect the attitude that Jesus took into cleansing of the temple.
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Contextual diversity is out?
 
The reciprocal form is that we will continue to be a feast for worms ... something to get over ... if you don't like slippery intrusions ... Hag Fetch as fission ... the dark nag is going to get yah ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
One of the rationale I have for maintaining that Jesus was directly opposed to the political order (albeit non-violently, assuming that one considers knocking over of tables to be 'non-violent') is his fate. He was executed by a legitimate government for a political crime.
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His activities against the Jewish religious elites, who were largely in hock with the Romans, would likely have been enough without him advocating any kind of actual political overthrow. And even if he did, it's unlikely he was advocating anything like democracy. A popular revolution to restore some form of Jewish home rule would be more likely.
 
Mendalla said:
His activities against the Jewish religious elites, who were largely in hock with the Romans, would likely have been enough without him advocating any kind of actual political overthrow. And even if he did, it's unlikely he was
advocating anything like democracy. A popular revolution to restore some form of Jewish home rule would be more likely.
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Hmm...there's two political questions here: i) how do you govern yourself, and what decides 'expertise'; ii) how do you organize the exchange of goods and service, i.e. construct an economic system. If Jesus was ultimately a prophet (of the eternally relevant variety - or "God" - you pick), he will have given us some real clues. And here I go straight to his "however you treat the least of these you treat me" pronouncement. So, you design both political systems and economic systems in such a way that the minority, the vulnerable, the voiceless - always get the first dibs.

The funny thing is that "What Would Jesus Do?" is both counter-cultural and counter-intuitive.

And if the real focus of our faith in an ultimate benevolence is someone's geographical "home rule" within a 2000 year old politcal/economic system, then Christianity is really meaningless
 
BetteTheRed said:
And if the real focus of our faith in an ultimate benevolence is someone's geographical "home rule" within a 2000 year old politcal/economic system, then Christianity is really meaningless
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Only if you think that reforming a political and economic system is the point of Jesus. I don't. To me, Jesus' teaching is about changing our relationship to each other and God at the personal level. It starts from the bottom with things like changing individual hearts to a path of forgiveness and recognition that our own failings are our problem, not those of others. It recognizes, as Lao Tzu did, that peace begins in the heart and flows up from there. If you trace back through Lao's famous passage, you end up with peace beginning in the heart and home which is where Jesus really shines to my eye.

If there is to be peace in the world,
There must be peace in the nations.

If there is to be peace in the nations,
There must be peace in the cities.

If there is to be peace in the cities,
There must be peace between neighbors.

If there is to be peace between neighbors,
There must be peace in the home.

If there is to be peace in the home,
There must be peace in the heart.

You will end up at a more peaceful, just world and socio-economic system, but that's not your starting part. It's something that comes from having peace flow up and out from the personal level.
 
Mendalla, problem is, there's been, largely, peace in the home, and even peace in many hearts, in most of the world, for a couple of thousand years since Jesus' pronouncements, and it's not getting better. Asian countries with much more pragmatic theologies than ours (and maybe even more importantly, much larger individual meditation practices) aren't performing, in general, any better in developing superior concepts of social structure or measures of individual or social well-being. Human beings have not changed in quality/genotype since his time. Individual humans are, largely, nice enough people when you get to know them; sort of like bears, or sharks. Canada is largely, a society of kind, pleasant, polite people. But we're still susceptible to outside s**t (and going all heterogeneic and xenophobic IS NOT going to help), and psychopathy and a bunch of ill-effects due to illness, bad parenting, living too close to each other, climate change, whatever, because, we're "us" somehow - with something in our collective psyche, rules, system - that doesn't work (or at least, is dysfunctional in the circumstances in which we have, historically, found ourselves).
 
How can we have peace ... when there are powers that don't know the soul of everything is broken by the behaviour of the off-spring? Naïve children of God's ...
 
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