The Christian Downfall ---The Error Of Balaam

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Unsafe, another weak attempt at deflection. Lots of quotes from websites, even quotes from Scripture. And another challenge to "prove it wrong." I'm not trying to prove anything wrong - except your claim that your position comes from the Holy Bible. Again, you're trying to divert attention from the FACT that you have distorted Scripture by claiming that Scripture says something it does not say. I say again that on this issue at least you are a false teacher. The burden of proof isn't on me, unsafe. It's on you. You prove that Scripture says what you claim it says. Not with someone's interpretation "through spiritual glasses" (there's that unscriptural phrase that brings Joseph Smith to mind again) but with an actual quote from Scripture. You prove it. Where, with specific reference to chapter and verse, does Scripture say:

(1) that Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was a blood sacrifice?
(2) that Cain was without faith?
(3) that Cain and Abel had been given rules for sacrifices before this account?

and, since you've now introduced another claim,

(4) that Cain and Abel's offerings were "sin offerings?"

Where, unsafe, where? Chapter and verse. Not commentaries or videos or sermons or websites. Chapter and verse of the Holy Bible. Where does Scripture say those things? Or, the alternative, admit that you are going beyond and behind Scripture with those claims, interpreting the Holy Bible without the ability to quote the Holy Bible saying what you claim it says. And if you won't make that admission, then, come on unsafe -

Prove it. Chapter and verse. A direct quote from the Bible saying what you claim the Bible says. Chapter and verse. Prove it. Stop deflecting and diverting and prove it. Chapter and verse.
 
unsafe said:
Prove it wrong -----From Bible Questions and Answers ----
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First we had to prove scripture wrong now apparently we have to prove Bible Questions and Answers wrong. Are you really listening to scripture or just agreeing with somebody's interpretation of scripture?

In reference to Heb. 9:22 when does scripture tell us that the sacrifice offered by Cain or Abel was for the forgiveness of sin?

Further to that why does Genesis 4: 4-5 insist on using the word offering if what is really being talked about is a sacrifice? Are the two identical or is there a difference. I've checked several translations and they all opt for offering over sacrifice.

Is Heb. 9: 22, which makes clear reference to being under the law really insisting that Cain and Abel are under the same Covenant as Moses and the Israelites even though that Covenant will not exist for quite some time after their deaths?

Or is Bible Questions and Answers simply talking about blood sacrifice in general and not specifically the offering of Cain or Abel.

Hard to prove wrong something that doesn't even address directly the questions being asked like, which text says Cain had no faith and which text says Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it wasn't a blood sacrifice or even which scripture states that both Cain and Abel were instructed about what was an appropriate sacrifice or, as most English translations state, what was an appropriate offering.

Now if Bible Questions and Answers isn't speaking to any of the questions that have been asked why do we have to prove it wrong?

That is like handing me a math sheet and asking me to prove that the square root of 1896 is blue.

And then it appears that you equate Adrian Rogers with scripture since we are challenged to prove him wrong also

Adrian refers to Genesis 3: 21 which does not attempt to speak to the events of Genesis 4 and he rehashes Heb 9: 22 which, as noted above does not speak to the events of Genesis 4 either.

I also note that most of what you want us to prove wrong in Roger's material is his interpretation and not the actual scripture itself.

So much to only listening to the Bible.

Finally we are now equating Cobblestoneroadministry with scripture because we are challenged to prove it wrong also.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
clearly, we will see from Scripture that it was Cain's failure to do what was required
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Finally, somebody is going to present a scripture that informs us what is going on.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
God told Cain, "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?" Therefore it was clearly an act of disobedience on the part of Cain to do what was right.
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By accident of by design disobedience only applies if there has been instruction. No instruction is found in scripture of God informing Cain and Abel what is right and wrong with respect to offerings or sacrifices. So this conclusion is not based on scripture it is conjecture.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
Cain's attitude was also unacceptable for he followed his own way rather than obeying God.
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I agree that the problem was Cain's attitude. Since obeying God has not actually been established by scripture as the reason for his offering being rejected any references to obeying or disobeying is conjecture and not proof.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
Cain brought to God what he, himself, thought was best.
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There is no scripture which supports this assumption. All scripture says is that he brought "some" it is very telling that the narrative does not use first fruits language or fat language.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
He had pride, rebellion and self-righteousness.
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More than the rest of us? Probably not.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
He brought his own pride as an offering to God.
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More conjecture. There is no scripture which states this.

cobblestoneroadministry said:
He forgot that theground was cursed
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Not likely since he was a tiller of soil and he was living out the curse right. How was it that we would eat our bread? By the sweat of our toil? Why is it the ground produces thorns? Would a gardener even notice that? What a thoughtless conclusion.

And again, if the fruit of the earth is insufficient for sacrifice please explain why God establishes grain offerings and drink offerings? How can Cain's offering of crops be rejected because of what was offered (produce from cursed earth--not a Judge Dredd reference) by God and then similar offerings be called for by that same God later?

And again which text of scripture tells us this is why Cain's offering is rejected? Because it isn't quoted if it exists.

Who is going around the mountain now. When asked for a scripture you give us interpretations instead.
 
;)​
revjohn said:
First we had to prove scripture wrong now apparently we have to prove Bible Questions and Answers wrong. Are you really listening to scripture or just agreeing with somebody's interpretation of scripture?

In reference to Heb. 9:22 when does scripture tell us that the sacrifice offered by Cain or Abel was for the forgiveness of sin?

Further to that why does Genesis 4: 4-5 insist on using the word offering if what is really being talked about is a sacrifice? Are the two identical or is there a difference. I've checked several translations and they all opt for offering over sacrifice.

Is Heb. 9: 22, which makes clear reference to being under the law really insisting that Cain and Abel are under the same Covenant as Moses and the Israelites even though that Covenant will not exist for quite some time after their deaths?

Or is Bible Questions and Answers simply talking about blood sacrifice in general and not specifically the offering of Cain or Abel.

Hard to prove wrong something that doesn't even address directly the questions being asked like, which text says Cain had no faith and which text says Cain's sacrifice was rejected because it wasn't a blood sacrifice or even which scripture states that both Cain and Abel were instructed about what was an appropriate sacrifice or, as most English translations state, what was an appropriate offering.

Now if Bible Questions and Answers isn't speaking to any of the questions that have been asked why do we have to prove it wrong?

That is like handing me a math sheet and asking me to prove that the square root of 1896 is blue.

And then it appears that you equate Adrian Rogers with scripture since we are challenged to prove him wrong also

Adrian refers to Genesis 3: 21 which does not attempt to speak to the events of Genesis 4 and he rehashes Heb 9: 22 which, as noted above does not speak to the events of Genesis 4 either.

I also note that most of what you want us to prove wrong in Roger's material is his interpretation and not the actual scripture itself.

So much to only listening to the Bible.

Finally we are now equating Cobblestoneroadministry with scripture because we are challenged to prove it wrong also.


Finally, somebody is going to present a scripture that informs us what is going on.


By accident of by design disobedience only applies if there has been instruction. No instruction is found in scripture of God informing Cain and Abel what is right and wrong with respect to offerings or sacrifices. So this conclusion is not based on scripture it is conjecture.


I agree that the problem was Cain's attitude. Since obeying God has not actually been established by scripture as the reason for his offering being rejected any references to obeying or disobeying is conjecture and not proof.


There is no scripture which supports this assumption. All scripture says is that he brought "some" it is very telling that the narrative does not use first fruits language or fat language.


More than the rest of us? Probably not.


More conjecture. There is no scripture which states this.


Not likely since he was a tiller of soil and he was living out the curse right. How was it that we would eat our bread? By the sweat of our toil? Why is it the ground produces thorns? Would a gardener even notice that? What a thoughtless conclusion.

And again, if the fruit of the earth is insufficient for sacrifice please explain why God establishes grain offerings and drink offerings? How can Cain's offering of crops be rejected because of what was offered (produce from cursed earth--not a Judge Dredd reference) by God and then similar offerings be called for by that same God later?

And again which text of scripture tells us this is why Cain's offering is rejected? Because it isn't quoted if it exists.

Who is going around the mountain now. When asked for a scripture you give us interpretations instead.
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The square root of 1896 is orange. I can't provide any proof for that. ;);)
 
And on and on we go round and round the mountain -----

Prove you are right and all that is posted is wrong ------

this is what is needed ----Spiritual Glasses for Spiritual reading -----

Peace to you all
8622591-eyeglasses.jpg
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with using"exegesis" or "Midrash" for interpretation. Does one have to keep within what is written or does it allow for "reading into it"? What are the guidelines for interpretation vs. embellishment?
 
Doesn't God require mercy, not sacrifice? I've been trying to get my head around this discussion but I think I agree that it was not what was offered but the half hearted manner in which it was offered that upset God and I don't perceive anything in the story about forgiveness of sin.
 
unsafe said:
Prove you are right and all that is posted is wrong ------
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Why? You haven't even proven your claims yet.

Which scripture says Cain had no faith? You have not produced a text, haven't even tried to and nobody you have brought as proof has either.

Which scripture says Cain needed to bring a blood sacrifice? You have not produced a text, haven't even tried to and nobody you have brought as proof has either.

Which scripture says Cain and Abel were given instruction on what sacrifice is appropriate? You have not produced a text, haven't even tried to and nobody you have brought as proof has either.

All you have brought is your belief and several cut and pastes from the internet that agree with you.

That isn't scripture. Not even close.

unsafe said:
this is what is needed ----Spiritual Glasses for Spiritual reading -----
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If by that you mean an ability to see what isn't said and the ability to accept as spiritual only what agrees with your previously held belief then those aren't spiritual glasses and the reading is not spiritual either.

It is a human understanding masquerading as the word of God.
 
unsafe said:
And on and on we go round and round the mountain -----

Prove you are right and all that is posted is wrong ------

this is what is needed ----Spiritual Glasses for Spiritual reading -----

Peace to you all
8622591-eyeglasses.jpg
Click to expand...
I have x-ray vision so I can see through walls just like Superman. It also helps me see right through the Bible! Pretty good eh! My x-ray vision can also melt spiritual glasses if I so choose.:cool: Now can you prove what I wrote to be wrong?
 
unsafe said:
And on and on we go round and round the mountain -----

Prove you are right and all that is posted is wrong ------

this is what is needed ----Spiritual Glasses for Spiritual reading -----

Peace to you all
8622591-eyeglasses.jpg
Click to expand...

And now a cute picture, too.

The Scripture, unsafe. Give me the SCRIPTURE that actually makes the statements you're claiming Scripture makes, or just admit that you're interpreting Scripture, inferring things, reading between the lines, etc. Why is that so hard for you to do? And if you won't do it - then give me the Scripture. I'm not interested in proving anything right or wrong in this discussion. You've made claims about what Scripture says. I want you to show me the Scripture. Not videos, commentaries, sermons or websites, all of which are interpretations. Not cute pictures to illustrate your unscriptural term "spiritual glasses" (or show me where that term appears in Scripture). I want you to show me the Scripture. Otherwise you're just pathetically and frantically trying to divert. The responsibility to "prove" anything is yours. You made claims about what Scripture says. So show us the Scripture that says it. That should be easy for such a Holy Spirit filled Christian as yourself. Unless the Scripture doesn't exist, in which case I say again that you are perpetuating a lie and digging yourself deeper into the lie with every post you make. If so, once again, on this issue you are a false teacher. Prove me wrong on that by giving me the Scripture.
 
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Good grief Charlie Brown!
..... "prove it wrong" ....... oh my!!!!
unsafe has all the answers ..... :LOL:
 
You know I ran across this today. It reminds me how much trouble I had getting on this new Wondercafe 2
Senior trying to set a password


WINDOWS: Please enter your new password.

USER: cabbage

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password must be more than 8 characters.

USER: boiled cabbage

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password must contain 1 numerical character.

USER: 1 boiled cabbage

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password cannot have blank spaces.

USER: 50bloodyboiledcabbages

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password must contain at least one upper case character.

USER: 50BLOODYboiledcabbages

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password cannot use more than one upper case character consecutively.

USER: 50BloodyBoiledCabbagesShovedUpYourAssIfYouDon'tGiveMeAccessNow!

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password cannot contain punctuation.

USER: ReallyPissedOff50BloodyBoiledCabbagesShovedUpYourAssIfYouDontGiveMeAccessNow

WINDOWS: Sorry, that password is already in use.
 
Waterfall said:
Why would God, who is all powerful, need our sacrifices anyway? Doesn't he already know what is in our hearts?
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More good questions/midrash

Your questions is what happens naturally when one takes the concept of g_d in the fashion of some real thing like you or i or that tree over there rather than part of the machinery through which spirituality (what we find to be deeply meaningful) is transmitted...

The anthology you are choosing to enjoy is a tale of an ancient people, their moral & ethical journey, giving in deeply metaphorical language what was spiritual to them. it is also tales of cultural norms, a bit of history, a bit of a cultural tour...poetry, love songs, jokes...

or something like that :3
 
airclean33 said:
You know I ran across this today. It reminds me how much trouble I had getting on this new Wondercafe 2
Senior trying to set a password


WINDOWS: Please enter your new password.

USER: cabbage

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password must be more than 8 characters.

USER: boiled cabbage

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password must contain 1 numerical character.

USER: 1 boiled cabbage

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password cannot have blank spaces.

USER: 50bloodyboiledcabbages

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password must contain at least one upper case character.

USER: 50BLOODYboiledcabbages

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password cannot use more than one upper case character consecutively.

USER: 50BloodyBoiledCabbagesShovedUpYourAssIfYouDon'tGiveMeAccessNow!

WINDOWS: Sorry, the password cannot contain punctuation.

USER: ReallyPissedOff50BloodyBoiledCabbagesShovedUpYourAssIfYouDontGiveMeAccessNow

WINDOWS: Sorry, that password is already in use.
Click to expand...
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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