Snoopy Considers 1 Corinthians

[unsafe]

The Spiritual meaning is ----Jesus here is speaking to the rich ruler who asks what he has to do to have eternal life

Jesus is using the camel here as the camel was very well known and used in those times ---the camel if you research it ---has a character of loyalty --love ---trust and a deep connection to their master -----

The eye of the needle is -----Jesus who is the narrow path through which everyone must go through to have eternal life

The rich man can have eternal life -----but he has to Love God more than he loves his Stuff ---he has to be willing to lay down his human desires and follow what God's desires are -------you can't serve 2 masters ----

And the rich man left and as his Love for his stuff was more important to him than was having eternal life

 

[BetteTheRed]

The text talks about discernment of spirits. You are speaking more broadly here, right?

How do we discern if our discernment is correct? That's a problem I see with discernment.

Most of us would probably run it past others who share our faith perspective, I think.

Our Wednesday morning bible study comprises 6-13 or so people, depending on the week, the weather, etc. Our task is (a) lectionary passage and we almost always go with the gospel passage, not the Hebrew reading nor a letter.

If "discernment" means coming to a single conclusion, we are a total failure. I'd generally say that if there's n of us, there's AT LEAST n+1 conclusions. We have no objective of a single answer.

 

[unsafe]

How do we discern if our discernment is correct? That's a problem I see with discernment.

That is why a born again person has the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit -----it is the Holy Spirit who gives you the ability to discern ---no human spirit can discern the Spiritual ---so without the Holy Spirit in you your discernment is not reliable to get the Spiritual message behind the Logos written word -------which is called the Rhema word ---the spoken word----

 

[paradox3]

Our Wednesday morning bible study comprises 6-13 or so people, depending on the week, the weather, etc. Our task is (a) lectionary passage and we almost always go with the gospel passage, not the Hebrew reading nor a letter.

Sounds wonderful! I was involved with a similar group at my previous congregation. There was a core group of four of us and others would join in occasionally. We rotated the job of facilitating the gathering. I guess we looked at the gospel lesson from the lectionary most frequently. But not always.

If "discernment" means coming to a single conclusion, we are a total failure. I'd generally say that if there's n of us, there's AT LEAST n+1 conclusions. We have no objective of a single answer.

My minister at the time gave us Walter Wink's Transforming Bible Study to read. He first offered a study series himself and then floated the idea that we could continue without him. It was a great experience.

Wink outlines a method for coming up with good questions for the discussion. You know you have a good question, he says, when you yourself can come up with at least two good answers.

Walter Wink's son, by the way, was one of the creators of Blue Man Group. I was fascinated to learn this. When I attended the show (before knowing this fact) I picked up a strange spiritual vibe.

 

[paradox3]

That is why a born again person has the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit -----it is the Holy Spirit who gives you the ability to discern ---no human spirit can discern the Spiritual ---so without the Holy Spirit in you your discernment is not reliable to get the Spiritual message behind the Logos written word -------which is called the Rhema word ---the spoken word----

Partly agree with this post. Partly disagree.

How do we know the Holy Spirit leads everyone to identical discernment of the text? Wouldn't it be possible for the Holy Spirit to guide us all separately? And be at work within and among the participants in @BetteTheRed 's study group?

 

[paradox3]

Hey friends.

The poster @Mystic will not be joining us again on this thread. He is welcome to return to Snoopy's bible study when we arrive at 2 Corinthians. It will be a new thread, probably a few weeks from now.

 

[paradox3]

1 Corinthians 12:12-31

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 - New English Translation

Different Members in One Body - For just as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body—though many—are one body, so too is Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether Jews or Greeks or slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the one...

www.biblegateway.com

Today's reading is Paul's well known metaphor for the body of Christ. He presents his point of view with a light touch.

We see lines such as If the whole body were an eye, what part would do the hearing? (v.17)

One body. Many members. And all are important.

The last verse provides a lead-in to the wonderful 1 Corinthians 13: And now I will show you a way that is beyond comparison. (v.31)

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Review: 1 Corinthians 12:12-31

Does this text tickle your funny bone while making a great point?

 

[Jaebius]

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 - New English Translation

Spiritual Gifts - With regard to spiritual gifts, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans you were often led astray by speechless idols, however you were led. So I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus...

www.biblegateway.com

No one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit, declares Paul.

This pretty much makes faith a gift from God, doesn't it?

There are different gifts, Paul emphasizes. But the same God produces them all. And they are given for the benefit of everyone.

Yes. Faith truly is a gift from God, woven into our lives through the Holy Spirit. Yes, we see in that passage that spiritual gifts are diverse and abundant. Paul’s emphasis on this variety serves as a reminder that each gift originates from the same divine source.

Believe that we Christians must recognize and cherish these gifts. Remember that every gift has its unique role in building up the Church. We're all pieces of a beautiful mosaic

 

[Jaebius]

Snoopy's Snappy Question: 1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Wouldn't you suppose God would give everyone the gift of faith?

Yes, p3, I would suppose. I don't know for sure why God doesn't. However, I trust God and I believe that he's all good and all loving. So I trust that he must have a most excellent reason why he doesn't

 

[paradox3]

Yes, p3, I would suppose. I don't know for sure why God doesn't. However, I trust God and I believe that he's all good and all loving. So I trust that he must have a most excellent reason why he doesn't

Hmmm. If faith is a gift perhaps we are free to accept or decline that particular gift.

 

[Jaebius]

Let's back up to v.3(b)

. . . And no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

This suggests to me that anyone who professes Christian faith or identifies as a follower of Jesus has the benefit of the Holy Spirit.

Since faith is identified as one of the nine spiritual gifts, maybe @unsafe is right and Paul is talking about extraordinary faith of some kind. You would think anyone possessing one of the other eight gifts would also have faith to some degree.

That verse does imply that the proclamation of Jesus as Lord is made possible only through the work of the Holy Spirit. Anyone who professes faith in Christ is indwelt by the Spirit, meaning they're part of the Church.

Each spiritual gift is a manifestation of the Spirit working for the common good. Faith is a God-given ability to rely on him.

Biblically, every believer has gifts, and the Spirit empowers individuals uniquely for the edification of the Church

 

[Jaebius]

Hmmm. If faith is a gift perhaps we are free to accept or decline that particular gift.

Perhaps. There's some kind of wonderful interplay that goes on between God's election, God's foreknowledge, God's will, and human choice

 

[paradox3]

Friend @unsafe firmly believes accepting Jesus comes first and such faith brings about the indwelling Holy Spirit

I see it as a chicken and egg question. Who can say which comes first? Mayde it is either/ or. Or both/ and. (Which would be a paradox.)

Holy mystery if you ask me

 

[unsafe]

How do we know the Holy Spirit leads everyone to identical discernment of the text? Wouldn't it be possible for the Holy Spirit to guide us all separately? And be at work within and among the participants in @BetteTheRed 's study group?

The Holy Spirit will only help you discern what Spiritual knowledge your capable of Understanding ----all true Christians are not on the same level of understanding -----A New Christian is on the milk of the Scripture and the Holy Spirit will only give the Spiritual knowledge the person can handle and as you start to mature in your faith walk the Holy Spirit when ask will help you discern more difficult Spiritual understanding -----and the more your in the Word the more understanding when ask for is given ------

AI

In the Bible, the Holy Spirit helps believers discern the true meaning of God's Word, This process is essential for spiritual growth and maturity.

Explanation

• The Holy Spirit helps believers discern the true meaning of God's Word.
  
  
• The Holy Spirit leads believers into all truth by granting them a hunger for God's Word.

Your Question
Wouldn't it be possible for the Holy Spirit to guide us all separately?

The Holy Spirit Discerns and guides each individual person separately as they are not all on the same Spiritual maturity level and the Holy Spirit knows where each person is at in their Faith walk and will help discern what the person can handle as to where they are on their Faith journey in the scriptures -----

Your Question
And be at work within and among the participants in @BetteTheRed 's study group

I say -----If BetteTheRed's study group has received Jesus as their Lord and saviour and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit then they can certainly pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help them in their understanding as they do the study of the Scriptures ---

The Holy Spirit will not intervene unless asked through prayer ---The Holy Spirit does not automatically jump in to help in discernment -----you have to ASK for the help ---and the only way to Ask is through praying to the Holy Spirit to help you in your understanding -----

 

[Waterfall]

Is part of discernment setting boundaries?
Didn't Jesus himself walk away from those who refused to listen? Such as the rich man that refused to give up his riches? Did Jesus chase after the rich young ruler when he walked away? God allows us to live with the pain of our choices?
Is it wise to " throw pearls before swine"? if there is no desire to change?
Is the Holy Spirit like Jesus that way?

 

[BetteTheRed]

God allows us to live with the pain of our choices?
Is it wise to " throw pearls before swine"? if there is no desire to change?

I'm not quite sure anyone needs to change. Obviously, for some behaviours, there may be some natural consequences, which could include a "premature" end of life and/or any number of social consequences. In my experience, most people know exactly what other people think they should do. And generally resist change until the pain of not changing exceeds the pain of changing.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I say -----If BetteTheRed's study group has received Jesus as their Lord and saviour and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit then they can certainly pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help them in their understanding as they do the study of the Scriptures ---

I don't think that a "group" can collectively "received Jesus as their Lord and saviour". I believe that everyone is indwelt with the Spirit as there is nowhere She is not; doesn't mean that everyone always sees and recognizes this spirit within them. We certainly always start with prayer. What we never end up with is a single conclusion, and that is just fine with all of us.

 

[paradox3]

We had a brief discussion upthread about the camel going through the eye of the needle. Between @unsafe and I, we quickly came up with five or six possible interpretations of what Jesus said.

The more we study the Bible, the more possibilities we see. And it's always fascinating when another look at a passage after a few months yields something different.

Tomorrow we come to the beautiful 1 Corinthians 13. We just discussed it around Christmas time on its own thread. I expect my reaction to it might be a little different this time.

Now I am looking at it through the lens of Paul's instructions to one of the early churches. On my last read of the text, I was looking at it through the lens of Advent.

 

[BetteTheRed]

The more we study the Bible, the more possibilities we see. And it's always fascinating when another look at a passage after a few months yields something different.

I am a long term thinker by nature. Not to say that I don't react emotionally on a dime about stupid things. But my on-going thought processes are just more likely to be farther out. I've been regularly involved in this study, weekly, for about 10 years. Heard every lectionary passage three or four times. My answers to the three lectio divina questions change a lot over every three year period.