Snoopy Considers 1 Corinthians

[Mystic]

A little more about prayer before we move on in 1 Corinthians.

In our denomination, public prayer is seldom extemporaneous. Even in small study groups, the prayers are usually written in advance. The prose is somewhat formal and most of the time, beautifully written.

Jesus never intended The Lord's Prayer to be liturgically recited. He merely offered it as a model for prayer. Hence, His introduction, "Pray then LIKE THIS."
Jesus abhors repetitious praying. “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as the Gentiles do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again (Matthew 6:7)." Jesus never intended The Lord's Prayer to be repetitiously recited. He merely offered it as a model for prayer. Hence, His introduction, "Pray then LIKE THIS (6:13)." Jesus warns us not to pray as if God needs the information we provide in our petitions

"Do not be like them (the Gentiles); for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him"
So the words uttered are not what is conduciive to effective prayer. What natters us te awe, wonder, and longing experienced in the prayer.

Some members of the team wrote prayers so lovely they could have been published. Often these prayers were much longer than the guideline we were given (500 words). And folks told me they spent hours and hours writing them.

As a minister, I inserted liturgical prayers into the bulletin, that I spent hours creating so that (1) they appealed to the emotions and (2) they fit neatly with the theme of the sermon. The hymns and choruses were also selected to support the t hematic coherence of the service. I always left a couple of minutes for silent prayer and meditation on God's presence. I did this because some people were uncomforatble with silence, which I took as an indication that their prayer life lacked depth. My pastoral prayers were alwaqys spontaneous, so that I could allow for divine guidance in what I was praying. I would reluctantly end my prayer by leadiong them in The Lord's Prayer only because most of the congregation really wanted me to do this.

I just didn't see this as necessary.

Often when I pray privately, I go to more stilted and formal language than I use in conversation. These days I am trying to get a little more conversational with God. Making the prayer more like a chat with a friend.

i'm glad to hear that.

 

[GordW]

I did this because some people were uncomforatble with silence, which I took as an indication that their prayer life lacked depth.

Or they, like many people in today's world, were simply uncomfortable with silence. PRayer with silence is not everyone's thing. THe comfort with silence or 'dead time' is lessening in the world I think -- and I think it is to our individual and collective detriment. But that may be a topic for a whollly different thread

 

[paradox3]

Agreeing with @Mystic about the Lord's Prayer. For all we know, Jesus may not have meant for the Last Supper to be liturgically reenacted either.

 

[paradox3]

Or they, like many people in today's world, were simply uncomfortable with silence. PRayer with silence is not everyone's thing. THe comfort with silence or 'dead time' is lessening in the world I think -- and I think it is to our individual and collective detriment. But that may be a topic for a whollly different thread

Yes. It's a leap to say (as @Mystic did) that discomfort with silence means lack of depth in ones prayer life.

 

[paradox3]

Here's a related story. We have had a few services where we have been asked to pick a partner and discuss a topic briefly.

This is definitely not in everyone's comfort zone. I know of one couple who used the time one week to work on their grocery list.

 

[Mystic]

Prayer that is just talking at God is not true prayer. Prayer is 2-way communication.
After you ask God for guidance, you need to set time aside to listen in silence to His response

 

[paradox3]

Prayer that is just talking at God is not true prayer. Prayer is 2-way communication.
After you ask God for guidance, you need to set time aside to listen in silence to His response

I tend to think of listening for God's voice as meditation. But sure. We can call it prayer.

 

[Jaebius]

Prayer that is just talking at God is not true prayer. Prayer is 2-way communication.
After you ask God for guidance, you need to set time aside to listen in silence to His response

Agree... somewhat. I'd say that after you ask God for guidance you need to be open to his response, but that may or may not require a time of just patiently waiting around. Also, I'd add that there are others to pray: praising God, thanking him, confessing sins, and asking for stuff

 

[BetteTheRed]

In our denomination, public prayer is seldom extemporaneous. Even in small study groups, the prayers are usually written in advance.

My bible study group always has an extemporaneous prayer to conclude. We go round the circle, people ask for prayers for others, pass if they don't feel like it, makes us feel very personally connected, I think. D___ always says the same about light, my prayer is almost always very brief and often mentions an insight from the study; we beseech a variety of divinity - Holy Mystery, Creator God, Creating Godde, and Heavenly Father...

 

[BetteTheRed]

Prayer that is just talking at God is not true prayer. Prayer is 2-way communication.
After you ask God for guidance, you need to set time aside to listen in silence to His response

I do not understand why you are always putting fences around things. Deciding for EVERYONE ELSE what is right, and what is wrong. Maybe you pray verbally during the day and Godde responds to you at night in dreams. Maybe silent meditation is your ne plus ultra. Maybe guided meditations, with or without Christian themes, are the best prayers for an anxious mind. Maybe Godde is always there and always listening for our "Help!", "Thanks", "Wow" (credit Anne Lamott) and so living life in loving action is the true prayer. My godfather died the other day (in his 93rd year). He was ex-army, and a physicist, with zero time for any sort of religion. I think he might have been the best human I've ever known, in terms of absolute love and integrity. The way he lived his life, offering love and practical assistance and guidance and a cheerful demeanor to everyone, always, was prayer in action. Most awesome Christian I've ever met (although his late wife, who I also adored, was similar in a more ascerbic exterior), and they would have been horrified to be so described.

 

[Jaebius]

My bible study group always has an extemporaneous prayer to conclude. We go round the circle, people ask for prayers for others, pass if they don't feel like it, makes us feel very personally connected, I think. D___ always says the same about light, my prayer is almost always very brief and often mentions an insight from the study; we beseech a variety of divinity - Holy Mystery, Creator God, Creating Godde, and Heavenly Father...

In the same kind of way, using the same method, we conclude our Sunday gatherings. We give prayer requests, and then have a time of extemporaneous prayer. Anyone who wants to can pray, and then I close.

Another type of praying that I've only experienced in Korean churches is a prayer chorus (I'll call it for lack of knowing the correct name). A pastor introduces it, music begins playing, and everyone in the congregation prays their own extemporaneous prayer, out loud, together. After a time, the music fades and the pastor prays alone, bringing the prayer time to a close. It's quite powerful to hear

 

[Jaebius]

I do not understand why you are always putting fences around things. Deciding for EVERYONE ELSE what is right, and what is wrong. Maybe you pray verbally during the day and Godde responds to you at night in dreams. Maybe silent meditation is your ne plus ultra. Maybe guided meditations, with or without Christian themes, are the best prayers for an anxious mind. Maybe Godde is always there and always listening for our "Help!", "Thanks", "Wow" (credit Anne Lamott) and so living life in loving action is the true prayer. My godfather died the other day (in his 93rd year). He was ex-army, and a physicist, with zero time for any sort of religion. I think he might have been the best human I've ever known, in terms of absolute love and integrity. The way he lived his life, offering love and practical assistance and guidance and a cheerful demeanor to everyone, always, was prayer in action. Most awesome Christian I've ever met (although his late wife, who I also adored, was similar in a more ascerbic exterior), and they would have been horrified to be so described.

Well said, Bette. Please accept my condolences on the passing of your godfather. He sounds like a great guy

 

[BetteTheRed]

A pastor introduces it, music begins playing, and everyone in the congregation prays their own extemporaneous prayer, out loud, together. After a time, the music fades and the pastor prays alone, bringing the prayer time to a close. It's quite powerful to hear

That sounds quite cool. A bit of Taize feel, which is also a very powerful service.

 

[unsafe]

I'd add that there are others to pray: praising God, thanking him,

I agree with Jaebius here ----I always start my Prayer Praising and giving Thanks to God -----Praising and giving Thanks to God is very powerful as it expresses a deep personal sense of Gratitude and and a personal recognition of God's goodness in one's life -----it also opens one's heart to receive more Blessings from God and deepens your connection to Him which places you in alignment to do His will -----

 

[Mystic]

I do not understand why you are always putting fences around things. Deciding for EVERYONE ELSE what is right, and what is wrong. Maybe you pray verbally during the day and Godde responds to you at night in dreams. Maybe silent meditation is your ne plus ultra. Maybe guided meditations, with or without Christian themes, are the best prayers for an anxious mind. Maybe Godde is always there and always listening for our "Help!", "Thanks", "Wow" (credit Anne Lamott) and so living life in loving action is the true prayer. My godfather died the other day (in his 93rd year). He was ex-army, and a physicist, with zero time for any sort of religion. I think he might have been the best human I've ever known, in terms of absolute love and integrity. The way he lived his life, offering love and practical assistance and guidance and a cheerful demeanor to everyone, always, was prayer in action. Most awesome Christian I've ever met (although his late wife, who I also adored, was similar in a more ascerbic exterior), and they would have been horrified to be so described.

"Be still and know that I am God (Psalm 46:10);."
"Be still" has the nuances "let go" and "shut up" in the sense of silence your inner mental chatter."


Now let's ask Jesus' brother James what the key issue is about petitionary prayer:

"You don’t have what you want because you don’t ask God for it.
And even when you ask, you don’t get it because your motives are all wrong—you want only what will give you pleasure (James 4:2-3)."

 

[BetteTheRed]

Berserk, just shut up.

 

[Jaebius]

I agree with Jaebius here ----I always start my Prayer Praising and giving Thanks to God -----Praising and giving Thanks to God is very powerful as it expresses a deep personal sense of Gratitude and and a personal recognition of God's goodness in one's life -----it also opens one's heart to receive more Blessings from God and deepens your connection to Him which places you in alignment to do His will -----

Love your thinking here, unsafe.

It's meaningful to me to first praise God for who he is and thank him for great things he's done before then humbling myself before him by saying sorry for mistakes I've made and asking him for things I feel I need

 

[Jaebius]

That sounds quite cool. A bit of Taize feel, which is also a very powerful service.

Correct me if I'm wrong Bette, which may well be the case here, but I thought Taizé was more about communal living, quiet contemplation, and group chanting

 

[paradox3]

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 - New English Translation

Spiritual Gifts - With regard to spiritual gifts, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans you were often led astray by speechless idols, however you were led. So I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus...

www.biblegateway.com

No one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit, declares Paul.

This pretty much makes faith a gift from God, doesn't it?

There are different gifts, Paul emphasizes. But the same God produces them all. And they are given for the benefit of everyone.

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Question: 1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Wouldn't you suppose God would give everyone the gift of faith?