Snoopy Considers 1 Corinthians

[paradox3]

1 Corinthians 13

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New English Translation

The Way of Love - If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I...

www.biblegateway.com

And now we arrive at one of the most beautiful passages of the Bible. As Paul promises at the end of 1 Corinthians 12, it describes a way beyond comparison.

We had a thread about this passage only a few months ago. Here it is if you would like to take a look.

Thread '1 Corinthians 13'

Dec 23, 2024

Here is the link.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13 - New English Translation

The Way of Love - If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I...

www.biblegateway.com

Does anyone have anything to say about this beautiful passage? We had the first part of it in church yesterday. I have never associated it with the Christmas season but why not? It definitely sits outside of calendar time.

Some of the verses were used in our wedding ceremony. And I read the entire chapter at my dad's funeral almost four years ago. It is one of my favorite passages from the bible.

Thoughts?

• paradox3
• Replies: 17
• Forum: Snoopy's Snappy Biblical Reviews

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Review: 1 Corinthians 13

A singing testimony of love and faith! Grab a coffee and have a read.

 

[unsafe]

My view on this Chapter

In Chapter 12:1-3 ===Paul talked about the Gifts and reminding his Church that when they were heathens they were led astray by others --and tells them that any one who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would ever say ---Jesus is cursed ----

My thinking here -----------in other words ----anyone who would say that===== would not have any Love for God in them --nor would they be connected to God in any way ------

Now in 13 Love --Agape --is the Topic -----

So you need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to get this love as Agape is a fruit of the Spirit ----
I say
the first Commandment has to be obeyed as without obeying the first Commandment you cannot have this love or show this kind of Love to anyone ---

Mark 12:30
AMPC
And you shall love the Lord your God out of and with your whole heart and out of and with all your soul (your life) and out of and with all your mind (with your faculty of thought and your moral understanding) and out of and with all your strength. This is the first and principal commandment.

I say
To Agape God is to put Him--His word and His will and our obedience first above all family --all people and above all things ==

Love is the very heart of how believers are to live among each other in Jesus ---

This Love is superior to all 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit -----and without Love speaking in tongues of languages and that of angels would be just empty noise ----

I say --------without Agape for God ---Prophecy --Faith --Knowledge -etc --would be irrelevant-and profit Nothing ---------Your better of to Have Agape for God and neighbour then you are to want these Gifts of the Holy Spirit --

Feeding the poor --giving up your body to hardships etc means nothing and profits you nothing without Agape ----

This Love endures all and will never fail -----and what this love embodies is listed in the Scripture -----

Now Verse 8 ----This is where I believe that many get their notion that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit has ended --but if you read 8-9-10 together you see that these gifts pass away when Perfection has come ----

using AMPC here --

Notice -----tongues will be destroyed ---it does not say they ARE destroyed ----- Prophecy says it Will Be Destroyed upon fulfilment ----and fulfillment has not come yet --etc

8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

As for prophecy ]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away;
as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease;
as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].

9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).

10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated void, and superseded).


I say -------This is referring to when Jesus comes back and brings in the New Earth ---there will be no need for these gifts to be in service

My View on
Verses 11 and 12 are talking about as a child Paul understood childish things but when he came a man his understanding was more mature about the things of God but his understanding is still obscure like looking in a mirror but when Christ comes back his obscure understanding will become clear ---

This is the same for Believers today ----Our practical understanding of God will come to a full knowing -------

There are 3 pursuits that believers should pursue ---Faith --Hope and Agape -----of the 3 Love is the Greatest because Love is who God is and our Love for Him will continue in our eternal state ----Agape never passes away --it is forever present -----

 

[BetteTheRed]

I wonder about the relationship between faith, hope and love.

I think most of us would 'score' in some way on these three gifts. Are they immutable? Obviously, they are not equally valuable, because love trumps all. But of course it's agape - unconditional love - that is referred to, not erotic or brotherly love.

 

[paradox3]

I wonder about the relationship between faith, hope and love.

Paul says these remain after we see face to face with God. But the greatest of these is love.

Interesting that love trumps faith for Paul.

Hope, in Christian terms, has always puzzled me. Does it mean hope for a more abundant life? Hope for life on the other side of death? Something else? Hope for salvation, some might say.

I think most of us would 'score' in some way on these three gifts. Are they immutable?

Both changing and unchanging, somehow?

 

[paradox3]

1 Corinthians 14:1-25

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 14:1-25 - New English Translation

Prophecy and Tongues - Pursue love and be eager for the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, for no one understands; he is speaking mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their...

www.biblegateway.com

Pursue love and be eager for spiritual gifts, says Paul.

He, himself, has the gift of tongues but he values prophecy over tongues. In church he wants to speak five words with his mind rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Tongues are a form of communication with God. They are a sign for believers but not for non-believers. Prophecy, on the other hand, benefits all.

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Question; 1 Corinthians 14:1-25

By prophecy, does Paul mean speaking as God speaks?

 

[unsafe]

By prophecy, does Paul mean speaking as God speaks?

Strong's Lexicon
prophéteia: Prophecy
Definition: Prophecy
Meaning: prophecy, prophesying; the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.

Usage: In the New Testament, "prophéteia" refers to the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.
It encompasses both the foretelling of future events and the forthtelling of God's will, often for the purpose of edification, exhortation, and comfort within the church. Prophecy is considered a spiritual gift bestowed by the Holy Spirit, as seen in 1 Corinthians 12:10 and 14:1.

properly, what is clarified beforehand; prophecy which involves divinely-empowered forthtelling (asserting the mind of God) or foretelling (prediction).

 

[unsafe]

Hope, in Christian terms, has always puzzled me.

This may help your understanding ---

Definition: Hope
Meaning: hope, expectation, trust, confidence.

Greek word for Hope
In the New Testament, "elpis" primarily denotes a confident expectation or trust in God's promises. It is not merely wishful thinking but a firm assurance based on the character and faithfulness of God.

I say------ Hope comes through the right Faith ------God's Faith is your assurance that what you hope for will manifest itself in this Physical world ------your hope is invisible --it is in the future --God's Faith is the title deed to your hope being seen -----

AI

This statement means that "faith" acts like a legal document proving ownership (a title deed) of your hopes and desires, essentially guaranteeing that what you believe in will come to pass, even if you can't physically see it yet; it provides a strong assurance of future positive outcomes based on your trust and belief.

I say ------Without the right Faith your looking at False Hope

 

[paradox3]

Confident expectation or trust in God's promises is a great definition @unsafe. Thanks.

I agree that it is more than wishful thinking. It also seems to be more than simply saying trust or confidence.

 

[unsafe]

So this Chapter continues with the gifts of prophecy and tongues and Agape ----and Paul says pursue Love ==but it is OK to desire the Spiritual Gifts ----

Prophecy is better as it edifies the whole Church ----which is better for all ----

Paul gives tongues a positive shout out for tongues and says he wishes all his Church spoke in tongues --Paul values the gift of tongues and says he thanks God for this gift ----but when he prays in tongues it is the spirit who prays and his understanding is unfruitful -----so we should pray for the interpretation of tongues if used in a Church setting ------

Apparently this Church has been using tongues in meetings just to edify themselves at the expense of others not understanding as there were no interpreters there to help the others understand and Paul calls them out on it calling them Children ---and calls them to a higher standard---

He says that tongues are a sign for unbelievers not for believers ---and prophecy is for believers not for unbelievers ----

I say --it seems Paul is always having to keep this Church in line -----and to me that is not surprising as we True Christians will always need Guidance as we travel through this Hard Journey of Faith to reach our Perfected end -----Satan is a master deceiver and will always infiltrate the true Church in one way or another and cause strife and division among believers -----Maturing in our Christ walk takes hard work Stamina and Perseverance every day -----staying grounded and rooted in God and His word ------

Paul is showing Godly patience and grace time and time again in these Chapters to his Church ----just as God showed the israelites in the wilderness time and time again ---

 

[paradox3]

Well @unsafe Paul doesn't say anything in 1 Corinthians 14 about Satan infiltrating the church.

He emphasizes that spiritual gifts are not for our benefit as individuals.

The tongues serve as a sign to unbelievers but they do not actually communicate anything. In fact, unbelievers will conclude the speakers have lost their minds.

Prophecy, he says, is for believers. Yet the unbeliever who enters the church will also benefit and come to believe God is present. At least this is my interpretation of verses 24-25.

 

[unsafe]

Well @unsafe Paul doesn't say anything in 1 Corinthians 14 about Satan infiltrating the church

You are so Right Paul didn't say that --

I said it in what ---I said -and I stand by that ------ Satan is the one who causes division and strife in all peoples lives and has access to True Christian who are the Church ----and that is a fact -----Satan Job is to keep people away from God -and His word ----he causes great division among believers for sure -----he is after Believers Faith --

The tongues serve as a sign to unbelievers but they do not actually communicate anything. In fact, unbelievers will conclude the speakers have lost their minds.

I think you need to do a bit of research on what is actually being said here -----The Tongues here are languages that people in that Church Group could understand ---this is not referring to angelic tongues ----these are tongues like given at Pentecost so the gospel could be preached to people in their language ------

So the people who went to that Church spoke and understood the same language that was being preached ---they all spoke the same language -----Paul here is telling them a What IF scenario -----What IF this or that person came and didn't understand -----what would they tell others after leaving ------

look at the scripture below here verse 23
AMP
23 So then, if the whole church gathers together and all of you speak in [unknown] tongues, and outsiders or those who are not gifted [in spiritual matters] or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Look at what Paul says -----Paul says Outsiders so these are people coming in who normally don't attend ==== OR Those people who are not gifted spiritually ----OR unbelievers come in
So you have 3 groups of people listed here who are not normally in that church so Paul I believe is saying watch who is coming to the Church so you know that others may not know what your saying ---don't assume that all know the language that your regular church knows --so that these people don't think this Church is a crazy church ----and they go and tell others -------

Prophecy, he says, is for believers. Yet the unbeliever who enters the church will also benefit and come to believe God is present. At least this is my interpretation of verses 24-25.

This is that scripture in the AMPC

1 Corinthians 14:24-25​

24 But if all prophesy [giving inspired testimony and interpreting the divine will and purpose] and an unbeliever or untaught outsider comes in, he is told of his sin and reproved and convicted and convinced by all,
and his defects and needs are examined (estimated, determined) and he is called to account by all,

25 The secrets of his heart are laid bare; and so, falling on [his] face, he will worship God, declaring that God is among you in very truth.==

I say --------Here again it is a What If scenario ---about Prophecy -----there are 2 groups here with OR
and an unbeliever or untaught outsider comes in, ------

This word reproved in this scripture is need to be understood what it means ----

Greek word for reprove
Usage: The Greek verb ἐλέγχω (elegchó) primarily means to bring to light, to expose, or to convict.
It is often used in the context of correcting or reproving someone by exposing their wrongdoing or error.
In the New Testament, it carries the connotation of convincing someone of their sin or error, often with the aim of leading them to repentance and truth.This term is used in the context of divine conviction by the Holy Spirit

I say -----So if these people actually repent in Pauls scenario -----verse 25 ----their hearts will be open to Hearing the Gospel and they will fall on their face and worship God and know that God is among them in truth ------

Once one repents their heart is open to receive God's Word --who is Jesus

​

 

[paradox3]

Different interpretation here re: Paul's comments about languages of the world. I thought he was using them as an example of misunderstandings that can occur. Just like the flute, harp and trumpet if their notes are unclear.

I think this is why he says he will use 5 words from his mind rather than ten thousand from his gift of tongues.

Agreeing with @unsafe about repentance in the unbeliever.

 

[unsafe]

Paul's comments about languages of the world. I thought he was using them as an example of misunderstandings that cathat the people would grasp --

No ---what paul is saying has nothing to do with misunderstanding the language ---he is saying there would be No understanding ------Paul's church spoke in the language that their congregation knew ----if people come in who speak another language altogether ---then Paul's church if they speak the Scriptures in their language will be of no use to the people who speak another language unless they have a proper interpreter there to help them understand in their own language ---

IF I only speak English and I go in a French language Church where French is only Spoken I would be SOL for any understanding of what was being preached ---it is not a misunderstanding of the language --it is NO understanding ---in need of an interpreter ---which Paul clearly lays out in this verse
13--AMPC
13 Therefore, the person who speaks in an [unknown] tongue should pray [for the power] to interpret and explain what he says.

Paul is saying the same about the pipe and the harp if there are people who try to play these instruments without knowing about notes then they are lifeless ---they have no music ----it is a sound of nothing -----just chaos -----there is no rhythm and no understanding coming from them ------there is no music there to misunderstand ---

 

[paradox3]

That's not what I am getting from the passage @unsafe but I will take another look before moving on in the chapter tomorrow.

I have been busy looking at a passage from John's Gospel for RL bible study tomorrow morning. Not sure I like where the author of the study guide is taking us. .

 

[unsafe]

That's not what I am getting from the passage @unsafe but I will take another look before moving on in the chapter tomorrow.

Read verses 7-13 -these verse go together -----

but remember there are 2 lens ----in which scripture is read from ----worldly view and Spiritual view ---mine is the Spiritual view ----Which lens are you viewing it from is the Question ?

AI ---------3 Spiritual views here and they all agree

According to the Forerunner Commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:7, Paul is arguing that speaking in tongues without interpretation is essentially meaningless in a church setting, comparing it to playing musical instruments without a melody, creating only noise that cannot be understood by the congregation

https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/1-corinthians-14/

Unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? Musical instruments must use a certain pitch and beat to communicate a song. If they do not, the music is not accessible to the listener. Sounds come forth, but they cannot be understood. The same is true for a trumpet that makes an uncertain sound. It is of no profit for others.

Adam Clark Commentary

1 Corinthians 14:9

Likewise ye - If ye do not speak in the Church so as to be understood, your labor is useless; ye shall speak into the air - your speech will be lost and dissipated in the air, without conveying any meaning to any person: there will be a noise or sound, but nothing else. Gifts of that kind, thus used, are good for nothing.

It is not a Misunderstanding of the language ----there is no understanding of the language ==without an interpreter

 

[paradox3]

Yes @unsafe Paul says tongues spoken in church need an interpreter. Agreed.

 

[Jaebius]

Yes @unsafe Paul says tongues spoken in church need an interpreter. Agreed.

At least that was the case in Paul's time. And there are many who say that such is still the case today. However, there are people like myself who say that the gift of tongues is no longer even distributed. We hold that certain spiritual gifts ceased with the completion of the biblical canon and the close of the apostolic age

 

[BetteTheRed]

We hold that certain spiritual gifts ceased with the completion of the biblical canon and the close of the apostolic age

This amuses me. I have visions of a supernatural being with a clipboard looking at a flow chart. "Okay, canon complete; ergo, all speaking in tongues ceases." Were there similar flow chart details for the more restricted canon that the Protestants decided upon? ("Protestant canon complete; ergo, all faith healings will now cease"?)

Also, the completion of the biblical canon (387) and the close of the apostolic age (death of John; perhaps 100) are some 3 centuries different...