Revisiting Mark

[Mendalla]

23 Then Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were perplexed at these words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is[d] to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 They were greatly astounded and said to one another,[e] “Then who can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “For mortals it is impossible, but not for God; for God all things are possible.”

So is he saying that God can save the rich people, that God can get them into the kingdom? That salvation is not possible for any of us (given the question, "Then who can be saved?", that is the antecedent) but possible for God? Seems to me we often focus on the preceding teachings about how hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God, but we don't always look at this one that basically seems to say that salvation is impossible "for mortals" (ie. any of us). We must rely on God to save us, IOW.

Jesus said to him, "Go, your faith has healed you. Immediately he regained his sight and followed him on the road.

Another story to add to the many narratives about following Jesus.
A few days ago we discussed the concept of "disciple" as "learner".

I wonder why Bartimaeus followed Jesus so quickly. The gospel writer tells us it was "immediately".

Did Bartimaeus want to learn from Jesus? Did he perhaps want to serve Jesus in gratitude for receiving his sight?

It is interesting that Bartimaeus follows Jesus. Most of those healed in the past, both in Matthew and Mark, have praised Jesus and spread the word, but this is a rare one who actually "followed him on the road". He does address Jesus as "My teacher" in verse 51 (NRSV translation) when he asks for his sight, so perhaps he had already heard of Jesus and wanted to learn more?

 

[unsafe]

Today's reflection Verse ------Jesus said to him, "Go, your faith has healed you. Immediately he regained his sight and followed him on the road.

My view ----
We see another healing here with Bartimaeus -----We see that he calls out to Jesus and says ----“Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!”

So we see first he believed who Jesus said He was ---this is important because if we don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God then we cannot benefit from He can do for us ------

Faith is the foundation for God's Kingdom -----not just any Faith but Faith that produces which only comes by way of hearing God's word ----- So Believing Jesus is who He says He in was necessary for the healings He performed ----and this man believed ----

This man never gave up on His calling ---even when told to be quiet ---he keep pursuing -----He also humbled and knew he was a sinner and only deserved punishment as himself says ---have Mercy on me ------

Understanding what Mercy is --is important because the man is saying --I know I don't deserve to be healed --I really deserve punishment for I am a sinner but I have Faith in who you are and I have Faith that you can heal me -----So Jesus responds showing Mercy -----and heals the Man because of his Faith in Him and his humbleness ------

.As far as him immediately following Jesus in my view -----I believe that because his eyes were not just given sight to see his surrounding in this physical world but he was given spiritual sight and by following Jesus he would continue to grow in his Faith and gain more wisdom and knowledge about the divine ---also it could be that when he gained his spiritual sight he saw the beauty in Christ and it drew him to follow him -------

This is know for a fact from my experience ---once we receive Jesus and we are in the word we do see a beauty in the Scriptures and want to be in the word more ---searching and understanding -----and being with and following others who are in Jesus is very important as it strengthens us in our walk with Christ -------assembling together is important


Note here ---it says he through off his cloak -----50 Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus

Question ---- Why would he throw off his cloak -----? does this signify something here ?

 

[Mendalla]

.As far as him immediately following Jesus in my view -----I believe that because his eyes were not just given sight to see his surrounding in this physical world but he was given spiritual sight and by following Jesus he would continue to grow in his Faith and gain more wisdom and knowledge about the divine ---also it could be that when he gained his spiritual sight he saw the beauty in Christ and it drew him to follow him -------

Interesting, and sensible, explanation. Healing his vision also opened him spiritually, leading him to follow Jesus.

 

[paradox3]

seems to say that salvation is impossible "for mortals" (ie. any of us). We must rely on God to save us, IOW.

Makes sense.

It is interesting that Bartimaeus follows Jesus. Most of those healed in the past, both in Matthew and Mark, have praised Jesus and spread the word, but this is a rare one who actually "followed him on the road". He does address Jesus as "My teacher" in verse 51 (NRSV translation) when he asks for his sight, so perhaps he had already heard of Jesus and wanted to learn more?

The tormented man known as Legion wanted to go with Jesus but He did not permit it.

Another interesting point in this story is that Bartimaeus regains his sight. "Rabbi, let me see again" (v.51 NET)

What does it mean that he was previously a seeing man?

Why would he throw off his cloak -----? does this signify something here ?

Could it be foreshadowing of the Palm Sunday parade when cloaks are placed on the colt and strewn on the ground?

 

[unsafe]

My view here
This scripture is one of the most misused and abused pieces of scripture about how hard it is for the rich to get into God's kingdom ---understanding the real meaning of this scripture is so important like the eye of the needle etc

Mark 10:23-27 said:
23 Then Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were perplexed at these words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is[d] to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 They were greatly astounded and said to one another,[e] “Then who can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “For mortals it is impossible, but not for God; for God all things are possible.”


This statement here -----“For mortals it is impossible, but not for God; for God all things are possible.”

My view
What He is saying is that no man can save himself -----only God can -------Jesus is still alive here ---the Law is still in place ----the law will save no one ----and one must still sacrifice an animal to cover sin --it does not rid the person of sin ----no sin can enter God's kingdom ----- Jesus has come to make available Salvation for all being the sacrificial lamb ----through Christ salvation is possible -----

The eye of the needle represents ----the narrow way to enter God's Kingdom ---Jesus is the eye of the needle here ---all have to enter through Jesus which hasn't happed yet in this scripture ---

Matthew 7:13-14 (AMP)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad and easy to travel is the path that leads the way to destruction and eternal loss, and there are many who enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow and difficult to travel is the path that leads the way to [everlasting] life, and there are few who find it.

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 ----you said ---Could it be foreshadowing of the Palm Sunday parade when cloaks are placed on the colt and strewn on the ground?

It could be ? ----

this is the scripture ----So they called to the blind man, “Cheer up! On your feet! He’s calling you.” 50 Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus.


My personal opinion for this scripture is that he through the cloak off because ---he was showing here that he was casting down his sin and throwing off the old and all the weight of sin and embracing the New which was coming upon him and I say that because he straight away followed Jesus ----We today have are to throw off the old garments to receive the new garment

 

[Mendalla]

Or maybe he was just excited to finally be meeting Jesus? I mean, not everything has to be highly symbolic. Sometimes a cloak is just a cloak and all that.

 

[paradox3]

What we here is a nice example of a good question (posed by @unsafe) with three good answers.

In Transforming Bible Study by Walter Wink, he says you know you have come up with a good question when you, yourself, can think of at least two good answers.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla ---you said ----- Or maybe he was just excited to finally be meeting Jesus? I mean, not everything has to be highly symbolic


For me the Bible is first a Spiritual book and so there will always be a Spiritual symbolic meaning to Scripture ----just like Bartimaeus was blind but then he saw -----The Pharisees were Spiritually blind ------they had eyes but they didn't see ---they had ears but they didn't hear -----This is the wonder of the Guidance of the Holy Spirit when reading and studding scripture ----for me at least

 

[Mendalla]

Walter . Heh heh.

(Ye

Mendalla ---you said ----- Or maybe he was just excited to finally be meeting Jesus? I mean, not everything has to be highly symbolic


For me the Bible is first a Spiritual book and so there will always be a Spiritual symbolic meaning to Scripture ----just like Bartimaeus was blind but then he saw -----The Pharisees were Spiritually blind ------they had eyes but they didn't see ---they had ears but they didn't hear -----This is the wonder of the Guidance of the Holy Spirit when reading and studding scripture ----for me at least

I do think your reading of it as symbolizing throwing off sin is interesting, just wanted to throw out that there is another non-symbolic possibility.

And the constant theme of healing people who are lacking senses definitely suggests the idea of opening people up to God or Jesus as you suggest here. People tend to only hear and see things as they are conditioned to do so and clearly that was the case for the scribes and Pharisees. He also talks about their heart being hard (e.g. in this chapter when he discusses divorce and marriage), which suggests people who view without seeing and hear without listening, ie. they see what Jesus is doing and hear what he is saying but they don't sink in and grow (referring to the parable of the sower).

 

[paradox3]

Did Bart throw off his cloak temporarily or permanently, do we think?

If he just took it off for the moment, maybe it was akin to the present day practice of "rolling up one's sleeves" to get to work unencumbered. Or it was just a hot day.

Permanently throwing off his cloak might have meant (a little searching has offered) giving up his most valued possession. As a beggar, his cloak would have played a role in earning his living. We can think of street people with their blankets wrapped around them in the cold, perhaps, with their paper cups on the sidewalk.

 

[paradox3]

Walter . Heh heh.

Yes. An interesting author.

 

[paradox3]

just wanted to throw out that there is another non-symbolic possibility.

Speaking of authors, Amy Jill Levine thinks Christians often search for too many layers of meaning, particularly in the parables.

 

[Mendalla]

Speaking of authors, Amy Jill Levine thinks Christians often search for too many layers of meaning, particularly in the parables.

Not sure it's just Christians. I think it's the same as "famous face in a potato" phenomenon or the constellations in the sky where humans just have a natural inclination to look for, and see, patterns where there may be none.

 

[paradox3]

Jesus got annoyed with the Pharisees for seeking a sign from heaven to test Him. (Mark 8: 11-13)

Jesus, we are told, sighed deeply in his spirit at this request.

 

[unsafe]

Jesus said this about testing God -----

Luke 4:12
New International Version
Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

I say --no wonder he sighed in His Spirit


I say --But there is only one Scripture in the Bible where God says Test Me on this and that is to do with paying Tithes ---

Malachi 3:10 (AMP)
10 Bring all the tithes (the tenth) into the [a]storehouse, so that there may be [b]food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you [so great] a blessing until there is no more room to receive it.

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 -----you said ---Speaking of authors, Amy Jill Levine thinks Christians often search for too many layers of meaning, particularly in the parables.

I agree with this ---this is my view on this

Many Christians ----think that the scriptures should be very secretive and mysterious and that it has a deep meaning so they are looking for that in the Scriptures when the scriptures are easily revealed and the Scripture itself gives the meaning most times ---scripture will always answer scripture --you may have to read the chapters before or after to get the meaning but you can find the answer right in scripture ----- Revelations with all its imagery and metaphors etc can be answered in the Old Testament -----God didn't create His word to not understand it ---Many Christians I believe just have to think that God wouldn't give a simple answer to be seen right away -------

 

[paradox3]

no wonder he sighed in His Spirit

I really like the line about Jesus sighing deeply in his spirit. I am not sure why I like it so much but I find it both poignant and poetic.

Tomorrow we will read about the triumphant entry into Jerusalem. It is only three weeks ago that we observed Palm Sunday in real life. What a funny one it was this year with paper palm branches and Zoom gatherings! Who would have ever thought?

 

[Mendalla]

Back from my afternoon walk and I discovered a series of lectures on the New Testament on Hoopla. The lecturer is Felix Just S.J., Ph.D., a Jesuit with a doctorate from Yale, but I'm not going to hold that against him. The SJ are among the best educated, most thoughtful clergy in Christianity these days. His discussion isn't really especially Catholic, or at least I don't see it as such. There are two parts to the lecture on Mark, one on the history, geography, and literary elements of the gospel and one on Christology and Discipleship as portrayed in the Gospel. He treats the other gospels the same way.

I am still digesting it (audio presentations don't really work well for me for some reason), but here's some bits and bobs that stuck. Some of it we have discussed, some is stuff that hasn't come up here yet. I will probably give it a second listen and might have more after that. These are all fairly general as he goes by themes and ideas rather than chapters.

• Mark wrote not long after the persecution in Rome or the fall of Jerusalem so persecution is a theme
• Jesus moves towards Jerusalem over the course of the narrative, starting in Galilee and moving South
• Mark uses an omniscient narrator to reveal things like Jesus' private thoughts that those actually in the story don't necessarily know
• The author is said by Papias, a 2nd century bishop of Hierapolis, to have been a follower of Peter who got much of the material from Peter but didn't necessarily record in the order it happened
• The stories in Mark are arranged in thematic blocks. For instance, 2:1-3:6 contain five stories in which Jesus is in conflict with the authorities (Just talks about this one quite extensively).
• Apparently in the original Greek, a lot of the stories begin with "and" or "immediately" giving a sense of urgency and immediacy. Certainly, I find that even in the NRSV translation, the stories are short and punchy and it moves at a brisk pacing.
• Discipleship is primarily about taking up the Cross and being prepared to follow Jesus, even into persecution
• "Son of God" is only used twice by humans in Mark (Mark 1, which is the authorial voice, and a centurion at the Crucifixion). Other times it is spoken by God (at Jesus' baptism) or unclean spirits that are about to be exorcised.
• Jesus himself uses "Son of Man"

As I said, I may add more from this once I do a re-listen.

 

[paradox3]

There is a lot to unpack here @Mendalla.

I am always torn in bible study between academic, intellectual type pursuits and the more personal, experiential approach to scripture.

Too far in one direction and the material becomes dry and dead for me. Too far in the other direction and it pretty much turns into a lovefest where anything goes.

Finding the right balance is tricky.

How is this lecture informing your understanding of Mark's gospel? That might be the question to consider.