Novel Coronavirus

[Northwind]

When I was at the lab to get bloodwork done last week a couple people wore their masks below their nose, or were wearing their own cloth mask. The hospital disposable masks are mandated in any health facility in BC. The staff were fabulous at telling people to put the mask over their nose because "we want you to be safe" or to hand them a proper mask. Of course health professionals can say they want us to be safe with more credibility, at least in that setting.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

You don't see many legit cases because they've been shut in the whole time.

I think it was Rita, but not sure, who mentioned that people maybe people should/ could claim medical exemption if they are opposed to mask requirements. There are people who have breathing (in addition to things like asthma and copd) and speaking difficulties that have to do with muscle control of their faces, throats. They have mostly been locked inside for a whole year, whether they live independently making their own decisions or not, whether they had jobs before or not. Now unable to access proper care and services. They have given up a lot - any little freedom they had to be out in the world and not confined, for a year - and it would be nice to be able to safely accommodate them. But because of anti maskers have done damage to decency, people have little empathy for those who really can't wear masks but maybe would like to be more of a part of society, not shut in all the time for everybody else's convenience.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Again, a simple surgical mask, which feel like nothing to me actually, (I wear a decent, well fitting cloth mask, with filter, bracket, ear saver), is so not difficult for anyone, except the most very fragile, and maybe they can wait another month or three to go and do their personal shopping?

I have seen NO-ONE shut in, except by their families, who say, "80-year old Dad, we are going to shop for you". Edgar, my Newfie friend across the road, has snuck in occasionally with an exaggerated "do not tell on me to my kids".

Asthma and COPD not excuse. I've got several customers, who, without prompting, have a surgical mask on OVER their oxygen set-up. THEY don't want to get sicker. They are protecting themselves against a disease that might be hard on them.

I think we need to think of masks and hygiene as protective, not restrictive.

Nurses, weigh in, please. (e.g. @Lastpointe, but there's more, I know, lol) When would you think a medical exemption from wearing a mask would be valid? Would it largely preclude doing your own grocery shopping?

 

[ChemGal]

Every store? The NF at the other end of town, and many other grocery stores, have a "no mask, no service" policy, like the widely accepted, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", which is completely common in Ontario. Chemgal, can you honestly think of a person who can't throw a bandana over their nose to pop in and get a few items?

For medical care, in a medical facility, completely different thing. Presumably, they would be treating whatever medical condition made you unable to wear a mask?

No private company is obliged to provide you with groceries if you are breaking laws instituted by health units? And I don't think that anything would mandate curbside pick up. If you have a preferred grocery store, you live with their limitations. You wouldn't expect curbside pick-up from a convenience store.

If it allows public access (think service dogs rules) I think some type of accommodation could be offered - whether that be for allowing non-mask shopping or something else.
The public laws include medical exemptions and not being able to remove a mask is one of those. So someone with a certain degree of paralysis would be an example.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Again, a simple surgical mask, which feel like nothing to me actually, (I wear a decent, well fitting cloth mask, with filter, bracket, ear saver), is so not difficult for anyone, except the most very fragile, and maybe they can wait another month or three to go and do their personal shopping?

I have seen NO-ONE shut in, except by their families, who say, "80-year old Dad, we are going to shop for you". Edgar, my Newfie friend across the road, has snuck in occasionally with an exaggerated "do not tell on me to my kids".

Asthma and COPD not excuse. I've got several customers, who, without prompting, have a surgical mask on OVER their oxygen set-up. THEY don't want to get sicker. They are protecting themselves against a disease that might be hard on them.

I think we need to think of masks and hygiene as protective, not restrictive.

Nurses, weigh in, please. (e.g. @Lastpointe, but there's more, I know, lol) When would you think a medical exemption from wearing a mask would be valid? Would it largely preclude doing your own grocery shopping?

How often did you see physically disabled people with motor control difficulties where they can't control their face and throat muscles, out and about before? How many people have you known well with those condition? Probably not many before, but you see none now. That's because they have been shut in.

One disability advocate online in a Canadian city says she hasn't left her apartment the whole time. They may be a minority but they're still people giving up almost everything to keep themselves and others safe. And nobody cares about them being accommodated.

 

[BetteTheRed]

How often did you see physically disabled people with motor control difficulties where they can't control their face and throat muscles, out and about before? How many people have you known well with those condition? Probably not many before, but you see none now. That's because they have been shut in.

One disability advocate online in a Canadian city says she hasn't left her apartment the whole time. They may be a minority but they're still people giving up almost everything to keep themselves and others safe. And nobody cares about them being accommodated.

Jesus Murphy, do you think I'm heartless?

Do you know who tells me, hard, to my face, that they are medically exempt?

A tall woman, 6', who I know, who gives a different excuse every day
A young woman, 20s, no evident disabilities, who says "medical exemption" and flounces in, looking not a day over a healthy clear skinned 25 year old

Like I said, we have several customers who come in with their oxygen tanks. Every single one of them wears a mask. I have a very favourite customer, and it might be CP, don't know; very bad gait, loves flowers, difficult speech. Wears a mask like a good citizen.

What would your opinion of "medical exemption" be, under those circumstances?

 

[Pinga]

Yup, the young couple who walked through the grocery store maskless to get to the liquor store. or the woman who flounced into Giant Tiger to buy some clothes.

I agree Bette. The folks who are at risk generally are wearing a mask as they can't afford to get it, and will do anything to protect.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I think what I am concluding is that I prefer a "we" over "me" culture.

There is the very smallest bunch of people, world-wide, who have no family, no resources, no help, and for that I am truly sorry. And I don't even know how to address that, except its got little to do with viruses. Pandemics are wyrd, like wars. Difficult. Gotta figure out your resources, etc.

Most of the rest of humanity can manage to accomplish daily activities without undue risk of infecting others by following basic public health guidelines.

 

[ChemGal]

I think what I am concluding is that I prefer a "we" over "me" culture.

There is the very smallest bunch of people, world-wide, who have no family, no resources, no help, and for that I am truly sorry. And I don't even know how to address that, except its got little to do with viruses. Pandemics are wyrd, like wars. Difficult. Gotta figure out your resources, etc.

Most of the rest of humanity can manage to accomplish daily activities without undue risk of infecting others by following basic public health guidelines.

And people who go out for things they need, without a mask when exempt are following public health guidelines.
I think with the signage issue I am pointing out a we over me - how can all be served in a safe way? Give options to those who cannot wear a mask, give a bit of extra space beyond 2m to those who are indoors without a mask, etc.

At least twice a week I'm in a building with public access and I take a mask off, we use a barrier in a addition to the other person wearing a mask.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I'm trying not to get argumentative here, but surely, the number of people who could possibly be medically exempt, plus those without ANY resources to curbside pick up at a store that offered that, if ours did, should surely be almost zero. Not the two women that I noted above.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Again, chemgal, medical facilities VERY different from grocery stores, IMO. You don't have a lot of choice of medical treatment, in Ontario. There's a bunch of grocery stores that offer no-contact pick-up, delivery, etc.

 

[ChemGal]

Again, chemgal, medical facilities VERY different from grocery stores, IMO. You don't have a lot of choice of medical treatment, in Ontario. There's a bunch of grocery stores that offer no-contact pick-up, delivery, etc.

Why doesn't your store offer it too if a bunch can do it?

Also, ever had to drive around because of medication shortages? I have - many pharmacies are in grocery stores.

With the small minority of people who are exempt I don't see why it would be a problem to help them out. Even stores that require one to load their own groceries will typically provide help if one asks for it. I don't see why this is all that different.

Either way, no need for the rude tone of the sign when it's just lumping all together like that.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Yup, the young couple who walked through the grocery store maskless to get to the liquor store. or the woman who flounced into Giant Tiger to buy some clothes.

I agree Bette. The folks who are at risk generally are wearing a mask as they can't afford to get it, and will do anything to protect.

I am at risk myself, and I wear a mask, because it's safe for me to do so - I have no reason not to. But a few actually might, and a few (very few) might actually be putting themselves at risk for other immediate health issues by wearing a mask. It's a few - and that's no excuse for those who don't really need to be exempt - but there are some that are really legit. We should be able to accommodate that, but we can't because of those who oppose masks just because they don't feel like wearing one and don't want to be told what to do about anything. They turn it into an all or nothing game.

 

[ChemGal]

I would like to see a steep fine for faking a medical exemption.

 

[Mrs.Anteater]

It's ridiculing those with disabilities.

Why? Can they not use a phone?

 

[Luce NDs]

How does one divine the ide ođs? With a Ho Ax ... say nothing sensible and the nonsense will be accepted in the silence of the soul!

Expect wrinkles ...

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Again, chemgal, medical facilities VERY different from grocery stores, IMO. You don't have a lot of choice of medical treatment, in Ontario. There's a bunch of grocery stores that offer no-contact pick-up, delivery, etc.

NF is probably cheaper than the rest, and the only place many low income people go to. I would be a regular NF if there was one here. Going somewhere else that offers what they need - instead of the store that would save them some money, becomes more expensive at a time when they are already financially struggling the most

 

[Lastpointe]

I don’t know many reasons why someone would say they can’t wear a mask. I can think perhaps of a sever phobia of suffocating. A sever case of COPD , though I would then expect that person to require oxygen. A quadriplegic person who uses a wheel chair operated by mouth and breath. Trying to think of other situations......
but even respiratory illnesses shouldn’t have trouble with a mask, as they are designed to breathe through

i think up thread someone said its the “me” vrs “we” in people’s attitudes.

with all the death around, with all the money this has cost, with all the heat ache for lost familiy members it is very sad to see that a certain entitled group in society just doesn’t care enough about others.

for most shoppers, wearing a mask is a half hour event. it Is not an onerous thing.

 

[Luce NDs]

I don’t know many reasons why someone would say they can’t wear a mask. I can think perhaps of a sever phobia of suffocating. A sever case of COPD , though I would then expect that person to require oxygen. A quadriplegic person who uses a wheel chair operated by mouth and breath. Trying to think of other situations......
but even respiratory illnesses shouldn’t have trouble with a mask, as they are designed to breathe through

i think up thread someone said its the “me” vrs “we” in people’s attitudes.

with all the death around, with all the money this has cost, with all the heat ache for lost familiy members it is very sad to see that a certain entitled group in society just doesn’t care enough about others.

for most shoppers, wearing a mask is a half hour event. it Is not an onerous thing.

Thus dissociation on an unimaginative (cannot enter minds) degree, or space domain! Zero Sum ... may be satyr or satire ... demons!

 

[Lastpointe]

I read an interesting article, that I can no longer find. ( isn’t that frustrating?). But it was about why Africa and A few other nations have been less hit than expected

of course there is lots of speculation. but An interesting comment was that life is lived outdoors. Sleeping, cooking, living..... it may be many people living together but it is often outdoors. No even in cities, there is minimal air conditioning. So it is windows open, sleeping on balconies, fans........

whereas much of the world lives indoors and uses AC. We have buildings that don’t open windows. For safety and at the time for energy efficiency

interesting difference