Novel Coronavirus

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Are you sure that’s true? Where'd you learn that? That sounds suspiciously unscientifically biased to me - when class is linked to "race based" genetics.
You're right reading into it it seems there is information now that discredits the hypothesis. I wouldn't call it "race based" it wasn't about black people or a race in general it was specific to African Americans due to the extreme situations the slaves endured getting to America. Factors that affect blood pressure also affect dehydration rates. Multiple courses had mentioned it quickly. The reasoning behind the hypothesis makes biological sense.
 
You're right reading into it it seems there is information now that discredits the hypothesis. I wouldn't call it "race based" it wasn't about black people or a race in general it was specific to African Americans due to the extreme situations the slaves endured getting to America. Factors that affect blood pressure also affect dehydration rates. Multiple courses had mentioned it quickly. The reasoning behind the hypothesis makes biological sense.
Sounds like a racist thread was running through multiple courses you took.
 
Sounds like a racist thread was running through multiple courses you took.
How is that racist? It's acknowledging that we can do things to others that can affect generations on a biological level. It wasn't about a race of people other than a particular race been choosen for slaves (that part was of course incredibly racist but we shouldn't just ignore it happened).
 
How is that racist? It's acknowledging that we can do things to others that can affect generations on a biological level. It wasn't about a race of people other than a particular race been choosen for slaves (that part was of course incredibly racist but we shouldn't just ignore it happened).
Because when it's considered a biologically fixed problem then people who don't have that problem learn to see the different race from theirs as genetically inferior and overlook or explain away the systemic racism causing socioeconomic disparity that currently affects human health to a far greater degree than anything else does. And above that...it's unscientific, unproven and discredited - it can't be proven that's what caused hypertension going back that far. Hypertension wasn't even known or studied then. It's a patronizing, empty theory that can lead people to believe that's a primary cause when today the primary cause is political and socioeconomic - systemic racism - and then those in charge who choose to believe it's genetic, feel less responsible for doing anything about the systemic inequality.
 
Last edited:
Because when it's considered a biologically fixed problem then people who don't have that problem learn to see the different race from theirs as genetically inferior and overlook or explain away the systemic racism causing socioeconomic disparity that currently affects human health to a far greater degree than anything else does. And above that...it's unscientific, unproven and discredited - it can't be proven that's what caused hypertension going back that far. Hypertension wasn't even known or studied then. It's a patronizing, empty theory that can lead people to believe that's a primary cause when today the primary cause is political and socioeconomic - systemic racism - and then those in charge who choose to believe it's genetic, feel less responsible for doing anything about the systemic inequality.
Again though, it's not about an entire race, it's about a population - those who survived grueling circumstances and their descendants It can affect screening recommendations. Just because something was wrong, doesn't mean it's unscientific, that's a big part of science.
 
The whole human race has survived gruelling circumstances over time to have survived this far. Because white people perpetrated those gruelling circumstances on black slaves - to make the leap that it became genetic because of that and disregard the glaring systemic causes still perpetrated by white patriarchy is a function of systemic racism. It's like saying "oh those poor people. What we did to them was awful (which it was) and now that it's genetically encoded, we can blame genetics for their current problems." When white patriarchy is still the cause of the socioeconomic conditions that actually predispose more people to getting sick.
 
The whole human race has survived gruelling circumstances over time to have survived this far. Because white people perpetrated those gruelling circumstances on black slaves - to make the leap that it became genetic because of that and disregard the glaring systemic causes still perpetrated by white patriarchy is a function of systemic racism. It's like saying "oh those poor people. What we did to them was awful (which it was) and now that it's genetically encoded, we can blame genetics for their current problems." When white patriarchy is still the cause of the socioeconomic conditions that actually predispose more people to getting sick.
So do you think that we should just ignore genetic factors? Should we ignore population differences and just treat all people the same?
I would argue that's much worse. Not giving people what they need just because their needs are different.
 
So do you think that we should just ignore genetic factors? Should we ignore population differences and just treat all people the same?
I would argue that's much worse. Not giving people what they need just because their needs are different.
No. Not when an individual is sick and needs specific care. But at the macro level it's socioeconomics driving the increases in illness, not genetics. Medical science doesn't explain or cure it all alone. Yes, if we had socioeconomic equality people of all ethnicities would still get sick from all kinds of things, but far more people would be much healthier regardless of their genetic backgrounds because they would have better medical care and quality of life to treat and prevent illness.

If someone is working long hours for minimum wage, living with their whole family in a cramped apartment and they have little access to nutritious food, and they are predisposed to hypertension or anything else, their risks of poor health are much higher than for someone who can manage a "work life balance" with healthy food and plenty of fresh air, green space, and room to move and rest and have quiet time at home. Those differences are systemic, and politically created, not genetic.
 
Last edited:
No. Not when an individual is sick and needs specific care. But at the macro level it's socioeconomics driving the increases in illness, not genetics. Medical science doesn't explain or cure it all alone. Yes, if we had socioeconomic equality people of all ethnicities would still get sick from all kinds of things, but far more people would be much healthier regardless of their genetic backgrounds.
But complaining putting out hypotheses as racist isn't going to help with that. It's not just socioeconomics driving illnesses.

Bring this back around to the topic, with COVID-19 if we start to see differences in populations, it's useful to start to look into the whys. It won't be simple, but if we start to see differences that can help with determining who needs earlier interventions as well as providing treatment leads.
 
But complaining putting out hypotheses as racist isn't going to help with that. It's not just socioeconomics driving illnesses.

Bring this back around to the topic, with COVID-19 if we start to see differences in populations, it's useful to start to look into the whys. It won't be simple, but if we start to see differences that can help with determining who needs earlier interventions as well as providing treatment leads.

The hypothesis is a perfect example of "explain it away then forget we're still oppressing and creating problems" type of colonial unconscious systemic racism. I get frustrated because you are naive about the bigger picture root causes of collective human problems. I am not saying you intend to be racist. It is socioeconomics driving the high rates of serious covid illness in black communities in big cities like NY. Period. They're not doing what you suggest because they're not interested in investing in the other socioeconomic factors that keep people healthy, or in proper access to good healthcare.
 
Last edited:
The hypothesis is a perfect example of "explain it away then forget we're still oppressing and creating problems" type of colonial unconscious systemic racism. I get frustrated because you are naive about the bigger picture root causes of collective human problems. I am not saying you intend to be racist. It is socioeconomics driving the high rates of serious covid illness in black communities in big cities like NY. Period. They're not doing what you suggest because they're not interested in investing in the other socioeconomic factors that keep people healthy, or in proper access to good healthcare.
Who is 'they'? Many people are interested in doing things to keep people healthy, to improve healthcare, to improve quality of life.
It's useful to know who can have what types of risk factors with any disease, regardless of the why. It's not a explain it away, it's explain it so we can target the help appropriately. If something is socioeconomic, then those socioeconomic groups need to be reached out to when there's a way to help manage it. If it's genetic, then we need to reach out to those with the genes, which can look different than the socioeconomic group. The way of managing may be different as well, depending on the cause.
 
Who is 'they'? Many people are interested in doing things to keep people healthy, to improve healthcare, to improve quality of life.
It's useful to know who can have what types of risk factors with any disease, regardless of the why. It's not a explain it away, it's explain it so we can target the help appropriately. If something is socioeconomic, then those socioeconomic groups need to be reached out to when there's a way to help manage it. If it's genetic, then we need to reach out to those with the genes, which can look different than the socioeconomic group. The way of managing may be different as well, depending on the cause.
The system, is "they" particularly those who run it. Those who make policies that have direct and indirect effects on some populations not others.
 
Racism is rife today.

First you said "Many of the examples are not all poor blacks."

Then you said "Poor whites also have poorer outcomes"

See the problem with that?

Are you saying people who are dying from covid mostly because they're poor (that's a huge part of it where people don't have medical insurance)? Or because they're black? You are saying two different things depending on whether they're black or white. In the case of blacks you seem to be leaning to genetics as a cause (which is wrong), but with whites, it's the poorer ones you understand have been hit harder.

The most obvious cause is socioeconomic.
Why can’t there be multiple causes?
 
Who is 'they'? Many people are interested in doing things to keep people healthy, to improve healthcare, to improve quality of life.
It's useful to know who can have what types of risk factors with any disease, regardless of the why. It's not a explain it away, it's explain it so we can target the help appropriately. If something is socioeconomic, then those socioeconomic groups need to be reached out to when there's a way to help manage it. If it's genetic, then we need to reach out to those with the genes, which can look different than the socioeconomic group. The way of managing may be different as well, depending on the cause.
But that is not happening and it never has. It's always an afterthought to throw a leaky lifeboat to "those people" in "those neighbourhoods". Whereas, for middle and upper middle class majority white populations, preparations are readily made and plans already in place to help.
 
Last edited:
Why can’t there be multiple causes?
The main "cause" is not race. Race is only a risk factor of any significance at all, because of socioeconomics that causes socioeconomic depression and systemic racism. The Obamas living in a fancy neighbourhood in a big house are not at higher risk for dying from covid than their white next door neighbours or others living in similar neighbourhoods across the US with similar financial means.
 
Last edited:
I don’t think any one is saying the main cause of anything is race. Well except sickle cell.

but race is playing a part. Blacks and Hispanics. Oddly today they have shown that current smokers are faring better than non smokers or those who have quit

it’s a weird disease. Lots of work will be done to study it

but when they know that currently in the USA race is making a difference, no matter what the underlying issue, it needs to be looked at carefully

because it is possible that different races need different treatment. Or maybe it means that different underly8ng health issues need different treatment.
 
I don’t think any one is saying the main cause of anything is race. Well except sickle cell.

but race is playing a part. Blacks and Hispanics. Oddly today they have shown that current smokers are faring better than non smokers or those who have quit

it’s a weird disease. Lots of work will be done to study it

but when they know that currently in the USA race is making a difference, no matter what the underlying issue, it needs to be looked at carefully

because it is possible that different races need different treatment. Or maybe it means that different underly8ng health issues need different treatment.
Different underlying health issues may need different treatment - but race is only a factor insofar as how well people are being treated already and the safety of their socioeconomic circumstances.

Nicotine in the lungs providing some protection against catching covid is odd - it's the nicotine doing it, apparently. It was kind of funny when a smoker said to me "Finally, we get an advantage for something!" When I hide in the alley or in the spot where the supermarket staff smokes, and have one - if anyone shoots me a dirty look I can say it's for covid prevention. I have a Nicorette inhaler (it's not combustible or heated or vaped - you breathe in but no smoke or vapour comes out - sort of like how an asthma disk inhaler works, pellets with the substance in them are punctured and that's what gets inhaled) that probably helps by keeping my nicotine levels up, too.


However if a smoker, former or current, does get it they will likely get more sick due to damage in the lungs already present. Especially if they have COPD.
 
Last edited:
It is an interesting article about smoking. And they aren’t sure it is related to nicotine

everything about this virus is odd for sure
 
The main "cause" is not race. Race is only a risk factor of any significance at all, because of socioeconomics that causes socioeconomic depression and systemic racism. The Obamas living in a fancy neighbourhood in a big house are not at higher risk for dying from covid than their white next door neighbours or others living in similar neighbourhoods across the US with similar financial means.
The prime minister of the UK nearly died of Covid. He’s only in his 50s. He was very ill. Apparently a death notice was drafted.

But he squeaked through. Prince Charles, heir to the throne, also got Covid. He survived without hospitalization. it did hit him so badly for some unknown reason.

Here‘s the story of a 71-year old scientis who teaches in London and worked on Ebola. Peter Piot. He survived but weeks later he is not the same. He is considering that in some cases one may be left with permanent problems. Of course, he is an old man.


All these men are firmly in an upper socioeconomic class.
 
Back
Top