Novel Coronavirus

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ChemGal

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Weird article - starts with what alcoholic beverages can't be found, rather than pop. I feel like there's way too much alcohol drinking in Alberta if the writer starts an article that way. Anybody looked into that problem (everywhere) during covid?

That said, I've been in the liquor store and noticed no can shortages. There are tons of different hard seltzers (which I don't like). I did notice a shortage of mini cans of pop in the grocery store. I like the mini club sodas. I don't have them a lot, I mix them with juice. Bottles go flat too fast.

Doesn't fermentation - beer and cider - self-carbonate beverages?
They had interviewed someone at a liquor store, so it makes sense to start off with liquor.
Some of the issues is the cans, and it sounds like the carbonation issue is going to be more of a problem for companies later.
 
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They had interviewed someone at a liquor store, so it makes sense to start off with liquor.
Some of the issues is the cans, and it sounds like the carbonation issue is going to be more of a problem for companies later.
What about canned food - soups, beans, etc. Is there a shortage of those too? It’d be more important to interview someone about that, I think.

Kombucha is self carbonating - they have alcoholic and non-alcoholic. I’ve only had the latter, and I like it (some of it) but apparently there are possible side effects from it? Can’t remember what they are without looking it up.

I remember when my mom left fruit juice in the fridge too long and it would start to self carbonate - which is sort of what Kombucha is, I think? She said it was fine..,but I don’t know about that. Long story short, not too worried about carbonated drinks. Have you ever tried those Emergen-C (and other brands) powder packet vitamin drinks? You mix a packet with tap water - they contain (?) Minerals that make it fizz (not calcium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate, but others do) - and taste pretty much like flavoured soda water or juice spritzer.
 

ChemGal

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What about canned food - soups, beans, etc. Is there a shortage of those too? It’d be more important to interview someone about that, I think.

Kombucha is self carbonating - they have alcoholic and non-alcoholic. I’ve only had the latter, and I like it (some of it) but apparently there are possible side effects from it? Can’t remember what they are without looking it up.

I remember when my mom left fruit juice in the fridge too long and it would start to self carbonate - which is sort of what Kombucha is, I think? She said it was fine..,but I don’t know about that. Long story short, not too worried about carbonated drinks. Have you ever tried those Emergen-C (and other brands) powder packet vitamin drinks? You mix a packet with tap water - they contain (?) Minerals that make it fizz (not calcium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate, but others do) - and taste pretty much like flavoured soda water or juice spritzer.
I don't know if there's a huge increase of the canned food being consumed like is being seen with beverages. There were store shortages earlier in the pandemic as people stocked up.
Kombucha the issue is if it's safe. It is possible to get pathogenic microbes growing too, the same with a lot of home-done fermented things.
I haven't tried the tap drinks. I imagine they are a similar idea to a bath bomb, something that produces an acid when dissolved, something that forms a base when dissolved and the 2 interact.
 

Mrs.Anteater

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We have had a social gathering of our meeting in the park on Wednesday. It was good to get together, we had so e outdoors games ( washer toss, badmington) and some food. It was good to get together for some fun.
But it feels like the quiet before the storm ( second wave) and this time I am afraid, we will not get away that easy, because it will just pop up in the community. I notice that people are not as disinfecting- crazy as they were before. They don’t wipe after each customer anymore. Now, we do have mandatory masks in public indoor places as of today- but at the same time they are saying they will not enforce the regulation.
 

Ritafee

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mandatory masks in public indoor places as of today- but at the same time they are saying they will not enforce the regulation.
Dutch public health officials are unbending with respect to what they consider to be lack of scientific evidence on the efficacy of non-medical masks in limiting the spread of the novel coronavirus. On Wednesday, July 29th, at a press conference, officials maintained the line they’ve adopted since March: “There’s no scientific evidence for the efficacy of non-medical masks.”
 

Mrs.Anteater

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Dear Rita, you really need to check your sources. Below is part of the article you are quoting as masks being not effective- and it turns out that it is actually in favour of masks and the whole discussion in dutch politics is just that: politics.



“;Why does the Dutch mouth mask policy continue to deviate from the rest of Europe?
The main reason: the persistent skepticism of the Outbreak Management Team, the group of experts who advise the cabinet. Last week, the cabinet asked the OMT whether mouth masks in public space should be made 'more compulsory'. Jaap van Dissel, chief infectious disease control, said in an explanation to the advice that

the evidence for the effectiveness of non-medical mouth masks, which are now also mandatory in public transport, is not clear. And so there is no compelling reason to oblige them.

The cabinet followed the recommendations of the OMT almost blindly throughout the entire corona crisis, even though the virologists look with purely scientific glasses. And their advice now deviates strongly from fellow virologists from abroad, who see a useful addition in facemasks. Amrish Baidjoe, field epidemiologist and microbiologist, called on the cabinet last week in a letter to oblige mouth masks in indoor areas. According to him, it seems as if Dutch policymakers like Prime Minister Mark Rutte (VVD) and RIVM corona chief Jaap van Dissel fear an image problem when they interact. "It has been said for so long: mouth masks don't work. Then it becomes difficult to come back to that. It is in line with the trend that too much has been communicated about things about which there was no certainty. ”

Because evidence that non-medical mouth masks can help is growing, Baidjoe says. "The exact effectiveness is difficult to measure, but a mouth mask always filters a fraction of the drops on both sides. Whether this is 5 or 50 percent depends on the context. But if it is 5 percent, it is still 5 percent, I think. Let's use the precautionary

Sometimes it seems as if the cabinet does not think the face mask fits the Netherlands. Prime Minister Mark Rutte called the Dutch "a level-headed people" at the beginning of the crisis and said at a news conference in May, asked about mask, that measures "should ultimately also suit you". But the government does not seem to be afraid of public opinion. A study by Maurice de Hond showed last week that a majority of the Dutch support a mouth mask obligation in public indoor areas.”

This is only half the article you referred to translated. It goes on to say that the public transportation companies have asked for mandatory masks for the safety of their staff and that the government had concerns that that would make people feel too safe, but that research has proven that that is not the case.
 

Mrs.Anteater

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This is how the dutch article concludes:”
'Not effective'
An argument used by the Mayor of Luxembourg Hubert Bruls, who is also chairman of the safety regions, used that a mouth mask requirement would not be “effective” because many infections now take place at home, at parties or at work. All no places where a mouth mask would be mandatory. But according to Amrish Baidjoe, that is too short-sighted. "Half of the cases can be traced back to places like this, but the other half cannot. Those are people who just contracted it somewhere. ”

Local differences in mouth mask policy will confuse citizens, Baidjoe fears. He regrets that the Cabinet is not taking national control, also to close the differences with the rest of Europe. "Policy consistency is a strong argument for doing it, especially now in the middle of the tourist season."
 

Luce NDs

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Humans are ineffective against the great pool of nature ... yet Dutch Dikes ... Richard's Tick?
 
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This is a well written and thorough article about all things coronavirus (in the US, anyway).


It discussing everything from preparedness, to testing, to measures to try to slow the spread (or not), to their broken health system, to racism, to politics and leadership, to the emergence of conspiracy theories.
 

Ritafee

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We believe that six substantive criteria should be met before a state imposes a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine mandate (see box).

Although state vaccination mandates are usually tied to school and day care entry, that approach is not appropriate for SARS-CoV-2 because children won’t be a high-priority group. In addition, state mandates should not be structured as compulsory vaccination (absolute requirements); instead, noncompliance should incur a penalty. Nevertheless, because of the infectiousness and dangerousness of the virus, relatively substantive penalties could be justified, including employment suspension or stay-at-home orders for persons in designated high-priority groups who refuse vaccination.
 

Luce NDs

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There will always be doubts ... even Christ the Light had his Thomas Cysts! A band of toute Eire sand hornblowers ...

God God Gabriel can't you see the Master Rests ... digesting the left overs!
 

BetteTheRed

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We believe that six substantive criteria should be met before a state imposes a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine mandate (see box).

Although state vaccination mandates are usually tied to school and day care entry, that approach is not appropriate for SARS-CoV-2 because children won’t be a high-priority group. In addition, state mandates should not be structured as compulsory vaccination (absolute requirements); instead, noncompliance should incur a penalty. Nevertheless, because of the infectiousness and dangerousness of the virus, relatively substantive penalties could be justified, including employment suspension or stay-at-home orders for persons in designated high-priority groups who refuse vaccination.
It's interesting that you should identify this one paragraph as most important, when the high priority population is identified prior to that passage: "Targeted SARS-CoV-2 vaccination mandate policies may also be appropriate in certain federal contexts, including high-risk groups in active-duty military environments, Veterans Affairs facilities, federal prisons, and immigration detention centers. "

I don't know if you've heard, Rita, about how this virus has just ripped through the prison system. I'll bet there are very few anti-vaxxers in prisons/jails in the U.S. right now.
 

Ritafee

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I don't know if you've heard, Rita, about how this virus has just ripped through the prison system. I'll bet there are very few anti-vaxxers in prisons/jails in the U.S. right now.
Go figure ...
The overcrowded and unsanitary conditions of confinement, coupled with inadequate, neglectful, and often punitive responses to medical needs, mean that COVID-19 poses serious risks to this population. And the risks are exacerbated further by the fact that criminalized and incarcerated populations have disproportionately higher rates of serious and chronic illnesses that leave them more vulnerable to 'viruses', particularly those who are elderly, pregnant, or immunocompromised.

If the facility is on lockdown it means that prisoners are confined to their cells 24 hours a day. All movement is terminated including no mail delivered inside of the facility, no access to phones, no access to video visits, no access to tablets (for facilities where prisoners share tablets and have to check them out of a kiosk), no recreation, and no religious services.

During a lockdown there may be fewer staff on duty and prisoners are not allowed to access daily showers. These measures, which prison officials have long claimed to be for safety of staff and prisoners, do not cohere with what medical professionals are saying about how to stop the spread of Covid-19.

But good on the system that is already planning for mandatory ... when they are available ... vaccinations.
 

Ritafee

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It's interesting that you should identify this one paragraph as most important, when the high priority population is identified prior to that passage:
I don't know if you have heard, Bette, ... the high risks groups are at a high risk for all disease ...
Conditions of Detention Facilities
Detention facilities, like the jails and prisons in which they are housed, are designed to maximize control of the incarcerated population, not to minimize disease transmission or to efficiently deliver health care. This fact is compounded by often crowded and unsanitary conditions, poor ventilation, lack of adequate access to hygienic materials such as soap and water or hand sanitizers, poor nutrition, and failure to adhere to recognized standards for prevention, screening, and containment. The frequent transfer of individuals from one detention facility to another, and intake of newly detained individuals from the community further complicates the prevention and detection of infectious disease outbreaks. A timely response to reported and observed symptoms is needed to interrupt viral transmission yet delays in testing, diagnosis and access to care are systemic in ICE custody. Further, given the patchwork regulatory system, it is unclear whether ICE or the county and state health departments are responsible for ensuring public health oversight of facilities.
 

Ritafee

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.... being against mandatory vaccination is not the same as being an anti-vaxxer.

I have always been against mandatory vaccination and it has always been my contention that this 'plandemic' will lead to exactly that scenario.

Where 'the powers that be' could be using resources towards better prevention of people becoming 'diseased' in the first place ... the focus is always on the uptake of the 'vaccination'.

It is no conspiracy theory that the way is being 'royally' paved for making those vaccinations mandatory.

Check this out ... A Yale Social Engineering Experiment


Official Title:Persuasive Messages for COVID-19 Vaccine Uptake: a Randomized Controlled Trial, Part 1



Experimental: Social pressure- guilt
Experimental message arm.
Other: Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.
Experimental: Social pressure- embarrassment
Experimental message arm.
Other: Embarrassment message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.
Experimental: Social pressure- anger
Experimental message arm.
Other: Anger message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the anger they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.
Experimental: Trust in science
Experimental message arm.
Other: Trust in science message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message about how getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the most effective way of protecting one's community. Vaccination is backed by science. If one doesn't get vaccinated that means that one doesn't understand how infections are spread or who ignores science.
Experimental: Not bravery arm
Experimental message arm.
Other: Not bravery message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message which describes how firefighters, doctors, and front line medical workers are brave. Those who choose not to get vaccinated against COVID-19 are not brave.

 
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