News about Five Oaks

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ps. It dawns on me that you can't see what the financials were for previous years. Salary, if recollection serves me right was close to $500,000. Definitely part of the issue. You can see what the staffing model was in the staffing section. Lots of employees. lots and lots.

Well as I said I read the report and I thought it was excellent. I can't find it right now but I think you mentioned converting 'excess office spaces' to better purpose rooms. And I very much applaud this ...
  • The Oaten principle of “work and worship being one” is being reintroduced to Five Oaks.
  • For those programs which practice this principle, the housekeeping requirements and costs will decrease.
  • This trend has been built into the staffing model and funding.
@Pinga - Overall - I have nothing but praise for this endeavor that you were such an integral part of and appreciate the transparency. I was concerned about the Six Nations land but the report gives assurance that they are a valued partner going forward and that stewardship of the land is in keeping with 'sacred' principles.
 
We had 25 people (plus MWG and board rep) at the gatering today.
Great questions, great ideas, some interesting challenges.

I could not have not been happier.
In fact, many of the folks there were there to offer to help.
 
Hey folks. Haven't updated this thread.

Not really a prioriry.

We do most of our push communications through constant contact and social media sites

The website itself is a pull communication tool. Quick updates are done.

Would appreciate any constructive criticism re the site by those who are actually interested in five oaks
 
Hey folks. Haven't updated this thread.

Not really a prioriry.

We do most of our push communications through constant contact and social media sites

The website itself is a pull communication tool. Quick updates are done.

Would appreciate any constructive criticism re the site by those who are actually interested in five oaks

Update your "About Us" page and your video. Give people an accurate representation of that which you've hatched.
 
Pinga said:
Would appreciate any constructive criticism re the site by those who are actually interested in five oaks

Okay. Presuming the site you are asking about is this:
Home Page - Five Oaks Education and Retreat Centre

At first glance it is rather static space. Lots of links, little actual movement. I generally view web pages with sound off because I find some back ground noise distracting. Some visual movement, something as simple as a slide show of some of the beautiful pictures of the site grabs my attention. This home page, really doesn't grab me or my attention at all.

Top portion of the page (links and above) is visually busy compared to the bottom portion which is not busy at all. A lot of white space dominates. Which isn't a problem if it is used well. I don't think the front page is using the white space well at all. Colour scheme doesn't provide much visual unity throughout and as a result the resulting picture of a page does not draw my gaze anywhere specific, text becomes the focal point which is bad for a page with as much graphic as this one has. The photos actually present a jarring contrast against the other graphics. I'd suggest losing the realism of the photos for a monochromatic colour scheme within the picture blocks that is reflective of the colour scheme on the rest of the page. Either that or somekind of boarder breaking the photos from the rest of the graphics.

The large photo with the Inspiring Creation comment.

What specifically Five Oaks is that about? Perhaps something from the vision or mission statement fills that space better. Also, from an aesthetic standpoint the darker circle surrounding Inspiring is a distraction from the background graphic of the confluence. Which I can recognize from all the time I have spent at it. If this is detail of the original pick pulling back to give a fuller treatment of the confluence is helpful since the confluence is rather significant from an aboriginal perspective. I am not confident that folk without a lot of experience would recognize that the picture is the confluence of Whiteman's Creek and the Grand rather than just some bend in some river.

Where the Five Oaks logo is superimposed over the picture of the confluence is visually messy. Especially because the inconsistent colour palette results in boundary bleed.

As somebody who is aware that there have been changes to Five Oaks this page doesn't reflect any of those changes, it looks as if there have been no changes.

If that is what we want visitors to the site to take away, mission accomplished. If we want folk to now that something is different then the page needs some new work. Even if it is some obnoxious bar saying new and improved.

Tour page is fine some of the same issues as the front page exist. The white space works better here.

Renting Space page is also fine. Some overlapping of images down by the Summer Centre entry. Might be able to fix that by re-ordering some of the entries with fewer supporting pictures.

Personal Retreats page also has overlapping graphics looks messy.

The overlapping graphic problem repeats on a number of pages. That should be fixed or at least make it a uniform feature.

The video does appear dated since there are former staff speaking on it so it could be redone.

Also, the video is really, really, ummm . . . white. Overwhelmingly white. Something to keep in mind next time there is filming going on. Also, minor thing, but I found the Japanese themed music playing behind an explanation of Aboriginal spiritual explanations for the sacredness of the confluence of two rivers tacky and it presents a disjointed whole. There were images where the music would have been more appropriate.

Drop down menus from the bubbles. Suggest reordering them.

Home, About Us, Programs and Retreats (shorten to programs otherwise it is redundant) move some features from Facilities and Services to this menu (ie, tour, personal and workplace retreats, labyrinth and spiritual direction) so that it is primarily a rental booking menu and rename, Oaten Institute, Support our Work.

Some editing needs to be done on some entries which have lines repeated and such.

Apart from that, there is lots of promise in design of the site, some of the layout needs tweaking.
 
Great feedback john.

The site has a lot of hard coding and areas we cannot amend.
As an organization we will need to determine where best place to spend money is. IT is not my favourite spend surprisingly. Yours and others feedback will help us to both quick fixes but also do long term strategy
 
Pinga said:
Great feedback john.

Well all that time taking Art needed to pay-off eventually. Though I am still out the $10 bucks I won from my graphics art teacher on a bet.

Pinga said:
The site has a lot of hard coding and areas we cannot amend.

Yeah, not my area. You want increased collaboration with the Six Nations. See if they have a graphic arts/web design program and see about some collaboration.

Aesthetics I can handle and have an eye for.

Pinga said:
As an organization we will need to determine where best place to spend money is.

What else is new? Frankly money needs to go into the facility. The downfall previously was not lack of advertizing. It was mostly faults in the physical plant. And having been into many of the buildings on a monthly basis for Presbytery business or other I am aware that most of the buildings are showing their age and that becomes detrimental to the whole at some point.

Pinga said:
IT is not my favourite spend surprisingly.

It might get people in the door but a great web presence will not keep the place hopping if the facilites are falling apart.

Pinga said:
Yours and others feedback will help us to both quick fixes but also do long term strategy

All things considered the Website is not even smoldering. There are other fires that need more attention. Facilites first and foremost. Is the Earthship idea still a possibility or has it crashed?
 
From previous conversations, I assume that Five Oaks is under some difficulty and would need to gather new clientele. So I have looked at it as an outsider who might be looking for accommodations (and basically, as an Anglican from Montréal, I am indeed an outsider).


Who do you want to appeal with the website? Five Oaks may be a well-known name in high circles of the United Church, but is it well known outside of it? I guess from previous discussions that you want more activity, but should it be only from United-Church sponsored groups, from other churches, or for "civilian groups" that want to organize some kind of social/business event, or even for individuals who would like a weekend on their own away from the crowd?

Content wise, I learn more in the logo "Education and retreat center" than in anything else present on the first page. It might be old fashioned, but I like to see what's in it for me right in the splash screen, even before using the down arrow.

So I would probably put a bullet-point version of the content of the "Who we are" page (Who-We-Are - Five Oaks Education and Retreat Centre) along with the address right on the main page so that right away, the reader would know that's a center in Paris (Ontario) open to this kind of people and for these kind of activities. On the other hand, I'm not sure the blurb about being an "affirming centre" has its place on the front page: if I were to go there on my own for a weekend, then it may be nice to know that you'll respect the non-discrimination laws, but if I go as part of a group, then it's basically the group's policy that will decide on my inclusion there. If there is anything, the blurb on being an affirming centre might go on the "who may rent" page, in that my interpretation of it would be that you won't rent to a group that is opposed to same-sex marriage, for example.

As to the famous question "Why should I/our group go there?", I assume that for individuals you need to stress (pun intended) the relaxing environment. But for groups who want to use the facilities for a meeting, I think you need to use examples of what hotels and other meeting halls offer on their website (usually in a PDF document). Example of things missing:
– how far from downtown Paris, Brantford, Kitchener or London? (i.e. suitable or not for a marriage or for a day-long meeting?)
– possibility to use projection (computer system, projector and screen or tvs);
– blackboards, write-on boards, flip charts, etc.;
– microphones (in larger rooms);
– wi-fi (I know there is, but is the speed sufficient to broadcast live a Youtube video or access a remote database, for example);
– cell coverage;
– food : are menus fairly strict of does each group negotiate what they want?
– if it rains, is the ground messy or not? bathing or canoeing or cycling opportunities?
– Is it accessible for people with disabilities? By themselves or only with a valid helper? (I don't really want the legalese, but practical aspects. there is no use in having all these nice ramps if they end up in mudded-up trails.)

And because people are unimaginative, you may add examples of events that could be hosted there, especially for social events that are out of the typical group of users. For example, is it great for a marriage with 20 or 200 people?

Content wise, another part that confuses me is the Oaten Institute. What's the difference between programs under "Programs and retreats" and programs under the Oaten Institute? If all programs are offered by the Oaten Institute, then all should come under the same header, and if it's a different body which happens to be located in the same place, then it should be expanded in a website of its own. In fact, it might be a very good way to present the content:
– what is Five Oaks
– What we offer:
Ready-made programs, activities and courses that either individuals or groups can come to(
Rentals and other uses: ex.: personal retreats, rentals for church events (which churches),
rentals for other group activities (ex.: corporate or other social events)


As far as design, others have suggested improvements. My pet peaves are:
– the big round buttons should have a link (most likely a summary page or the first link within);
– as I work with people in body shops and garages, we still have many clients using 1024 * 768 screens;
– it may be for historical reasons, but I don't think the website shrinks nicely on a phone. If it can't easily be done, I think you at least need a main page with basic information and address so that people who are lost on their way to Five Oaks can easily get it on their phone.
 
I am sharing this link re google research on team success: Google Spent 2 Years Studying 180 Teams. The Most Successful Ones Shared These 5 Traits

why is it in this wondercafe thread. I believe that the key element to our team's work was the team dynamics. The article points out 5 characteristics, and though our team took a bit to get there, it became a powerful team.
Couple of things:
1. people left early on, or didn't stay when they joined. That was ok. It wasn't working.
2. people came late, and we did the group dynamic thing again, as we learned their skills..and how they worked...but we became stronger because of it.
 
Oh look another article by that same "Human Capital Specialist' Michael Schneider

'The key to effective communication has nothing to do with communicating at all.'

Welltowerhttps://www.inc.com/michael-schneider/bad-listeners-could-cost-your-company-624-million.html

According to a Holmes (a voice of the global PR industry) report, the cost of poor communication has hit an overwhelming $37 billion. In addition, 400 surveyed corporations (with 100,000 plus employees in the U.S. and U.K.) estimated that communication barriers cost the average organization $62.4 million per year.

On the other hand, this same report found that companies with leaders who possess effective communication skills produced a 47 percent higher return to shareholders over a five-year period.

No matter how you slice it, effective communication is central to an organization's 'success'.
 
From the Five Oaks Mission Statement:

To be a sacred place ...

From the Five Oaks Vision Statement:

To be a sacred place ...

@Pinga

What makes a place sacred ?
 
@Pinga ... one more question ... can I 'freely' set up camp within the borders of the 'sacred' place that is called Five Oaks without being apprehended as a tresspasser?
 
From the Five Oaks Mission Statement:

To be a sacred place ...

From the Five Oaks Vision Statement:

To be a sacred place ...

@Pinga

What makes a place sacred ?

That's a great question monk. In a Christian context, a sacred space would be a space in which the presence of Christ has been especially experienced. MBC comes to mind. However, in a multifaith context...?
 
What makes a place sacred ?

People declaring it so or treating it as such, I guess. Ancients would talk about the presence or spirits or Gods but a monotheistic deity can't realistically literally be in all those sacred spaces, so it more a place that "God" has been felt or that has been touched by God in some way. However, that is the perception of a believer. To the rest of us, it simply the believers seeing that presence, not necessarily that the presence is felt by all.

That's a great question monk. In a Christian context, a sacred space would be a space in which the presence of Christ has been especially experienced. MBC comes to mind. However, in a multifaith context...?

Very good question. We don't talk much about sacred spaces in UU'ism. Our churches are sacred only in that they are the places people gather to honour their values and quests, not that they are dwelt in or touch by spirits or gods. Beyond that, each UU has their own concept of sacred space that fits with their individual "search for truth and meaning". As a pantheist, I find being out in nature or in a place with a strong sense of history or beauty often leads me to such a sense, for instance, while another might find it at the Pride festival or in a place where they do social justice work.

A place like Five Oaks might be sacred in a similar sense. Not that it is marked by the presence of the Divine any more than any other place, but that it is where people have gathered in search of and in honour of that which is sacred to them. Just thoughts from my perspective, though. @Pinga and her fellow Five Oaks teammates may have different thoughts on the matter.
 
It always feel good to offer help. I really believe in the Five Oaks project, and may in time actually want to be renting space.

Perhaps Your family and Pinga's could make arrangements to share expenses on one of these retreats ...

Friendship House
This cozy stand-alone house is close to the main building has 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a lovely sitting room on the upper and lower level, a well-appointed kitchen along with a screened in porch. View more photos of the Friendship House here.

Or ...

House on the Hill
Located on the peak of Five Oaks property, with a large fire pit in the backyard and wrap around deck, the House on the Hill is perfect for groups of 2-8 guests.

This fully carpeted 4 level back split house consists of 4 bedrooms, 2.5 washrooms, large meeting area with gas fireplace, 2 sitting areas, dining area and fully equipped kitchen with dishwasher. View more photos of the House on the Hill here.

... a perfect opportunity for Pinga to demonstrate to you how she adheres to her membership agreement.

The tricky part of course would be do you have to become a member to to rent a retreat and could you adhere to the membership agreement?

Membership

Start: April 18, 2017 at 1:00 AM
End: December 31, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Cost: $20.00
By purchasing this membership, you agree to offer hospitality to everyone and celebrate human diversity in sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender identity, ability, race, religion and age, regardless of economic situation. This open hospitality is done as part of being an Affirming Centre.
 
Perhaps Your family and Pinga's could make arrangements to share expenses on one of these retreats ...

Will never happen.

monk said:
Friendship House
monk said:
This cozy stand-alone house is close to the main building has 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a lovely sitting room on the upper and lower level, a well-appointed kitchen along with a screened in porch. View more photos of the Friendship House here.

Sounds nice.

monk said:
Or...

House on the Hill
Located on the peak of Five Oaks property, with a large fire pit in the backyard and wrap around deck, the House on the Hill is perfect for groups of 2-8 guests.

This fully carpeted 4 level back split house consists of 4 bedrooms, 2.5 washrooms, large meeting area with gas fireplace, 2 sitting areas, dining area and fully equipped kitchen with dishwasher. View more photos of the House on the Hill here.

Also sounds nice.

monk said:
... a perfect opportunity for Pinga to demonstrate to you how she adheres to her membership agreement.

Will never happen.

monk said:
The tricky part of course would be do you have to become a member to to rent a retreat...

I don't know.

monk said:
...and could you adhere to the membership agreement?

Membership

Start: April 18, 2017 at 1:00 AM
End: December 31, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Cost: $20.00
By purchasing this membership, you agree to offer hospitality to everyone and celebrate human diversity in sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender identity, ability, race, religion and age, regardless of economic situation. This open hospitality is done as part of being an Affirming Centre.

I could not.
 
I like Mendalla's description of 'sacred space' - and I like the wording of 'space' rather than 'place'. To me 'space' speaks more to the activities therein, to the attitude and experience of being somewhere, whereas 'place' to me is more about geography or architecture. Perhaps splitting hairs to some, but for me, language is important.
 
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