Israel heating up again

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Carolla

Carolla

wondering & wandering
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I've been sad & worried to see the recent increase in 'activities' in Israel - escalation again of attacks between Israel & Palestine, reservists being called up, war-like preparations being made.

I have friends who are in Israel this summer - mainly in the Tel Aviv area. She is Israeli & grew up there, served in the army etc - and commented to her Canadian husband a while ago "it's just another day in Israel - not a big deal". Hard for me to fathom air raid sirens & running for cover as feeling 'normal'. In the past missiles did not really have range to reach Tel Aviv - but this is apparently no longer true - I think one landed there today. This couple has two young children too (ages 8 & 4) ... I'm wondering how they will be, in the midst of this new experience. I wonder if it will change their view on moving back to Israel in a few years.

I went to the Haaretz (English Israeli newspaper) website today to read more about what's happening - but see a subscription is now needed.

Anybody else following these developments? Your thoughts?
 
them Israelites certainly grok reality and certainly picked a place that would be 'challenging' to live
I tell ya...Israelites are humanity's Dosadi...there are reasons why they've outlasted so many civilizations
 
I wrote a long post and accidentally highlight and deleted...in a nutshell. I haven't been paying much attention to the ME because I got caught up reading about Ukraine. Then I couldn't follow that either. Then there's Africa. Too many wars. In essence, wars are bad behaviour and adults around the world should start listening to their kids and learn how to play nice and share...I think all sides of all wars should just smarten up and STOP it now.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5577288
 
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On topic, I am increasingly of the feeling that less, rather than more, Western intervention is needed in the region. Yes, we can help get diplomacy going and host conferences and condemn blatant violation of human rights. However, the playing of political favorites (e.g. Harper's unquestioning backing of everything Israel pulls and the sometimes unquestioning condemnation of Israel by some pro-Palestinian groups) has not helped any of these causes.
 
I agree Mendalla that there's so much North American money influencing politics in the middle east - troublesome for sure. It's a culture beyond my understanding. I heard an interview on CBC radio on Friday morning on my way to work - I didn't catch the organization from which the speaker hailed, but it may have had a link to Amnesty Int'l - anyway - was focused on the issue of war crime being committed by both sides in the current conflict - but nothing being done about it. Nada. Ridiculous.
 
Mendalla said:
On topic, I am increasingly of the feeling that less, rather than more, Western intervention is needed in the region. Yes, we can help get diplomacy going and host conferences and condemn blatant violation of human rights. However, the playing of political favorites (e.g. Harper's unquestioning backing of everything Israel pulls and the sometimes unquestioning condemnation of Israel by some pro-Palestinian groups) has not helped any of these causes.
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i concur

maybe we westerners should listen and stop helping the Israelis. let these noble prize winners to their own Sovereignty and fate?

(not being sarcastic here)
 
I'm just curious, how much does anyone think that the Torah, Koran and the Bible have to do with this? Is it purely political or is it all intertwined?
 
Kimmio said:
I wrote a long post and accidentally highlight and deleted...in a nutshell. I haven't been paying much attention to the ME because I got caught up reading about Ukraine. Then I couldn't follow that either. Then there's Africa. Too many wars. In essence, wars are bad behaviour and adults around the world should start listening to their kids and learn how to play nice and share...I think all sides of all wars should just smarten up and STOP it now.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5577288
Click to expand...


I wish it was that easy and I agree with you here, but sadly it's so very complicated isn't it? Makes one wonder if weapons had never been invented, how these disputes would have been settled. Maybe part of the problem is that the kids have been listening to their parents for too long and the hate has been passed on.
 
Waterfall said:
I wish it was that easy and I agree with you here, but sadly it's so very complicated isn't it? Makes one wonder if weapons had never been invented, how these disputes would have been settled. Maybe part of the problem is that the kids have been listening to their parents for too long and the hate has been passed on.
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Well, actually, as naive as it sounds, it really is that simple. Just don't do it. Someone has a problem with the other side? Weapons of war are not a solution. Retribution is not a solution either. Just everybody stop. It's the only thing that will end war...is if all sides refused to engage in it, took warfare off the table as any sort of viable solution to anything- because it's not- and learned to play nice with their brothers and sisters and neighbours like they teach their children to do. Yes, later kids can learn horrible things from their parents that are totally hypocritical to how they're taught to behave as kids. And kids die while grown ups fight in the sandbox. If, for no other reason, stop because of the children, and their future children....
 
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I understand there's long history and politics and it's complicated (and blah blah blah). I look at those kids...and no it's not complicated. It's easy. And it's the same for all wars. Lay down weapons. Refuse to use them to solve anything and conclude that war is never a solution. That's really truly what it'll take. I'm very disappointed in the 'grown ups' of the world - for the future messes we refuse to stop and clean up that today's kids will get caught in. We're (overall) the ones complicating everything and not realizing it's simple. We suck.
 
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Waterfall said:
I'm just curious, how much does anyone think that the Torah, Koran and the Bible have to do with this? Is it purely political or is it all intertwined?
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Separating politics from religion in the Middle East has become nearly impossible. Israel's raison d'etre is intimately tied up with their history as found in the Torah, and yet it's modern existence was the product of post-WWII and early Cold War politics. Many Arab states hold to the Qu'ran but it actually recognizes the Jews as "People of the Book" and their objections to Israel's existence and behaviour have more to do with the displacement of the Palestinians and the fact that colonialism played a role in Israel's creation than because of anything in the Qu'ran. Islamists take hardline stances on Israel but, again, a lot of that is the role of the West in creating and supporting Israel as much as anything in either Islam or Judaism. The Christian right supports Israel on biblical grounds but that wasn't the original reason for the West supporting Israel, which was more about having a Western enclave to counter Soviet influence (and, later, Islamist influence) in the Middle East. And you also have liberal wings of all three faiths working for peace in the region. So religion is there, but it is very hard to say to what degree it is influencing the situation.
 
@Inannawhimsey - I found some of the info on the video you posted to be of interest - the comparison stats - but then as he moved into broad strokes of 'how it is' and 'who's taught what' - Bloom's credibility & bias became of concern to me, so it was interesting to look up his bio.

@Kimmio - while war is not a solution as you say, the way to peace is not simple or easy, or that road would have been adopted many times over.

@Waterfall - I think it's all interwoven; there are extremists on both sides who trigger much of the ongoing battle sadly.

I was curious about the historic roots of this ongoing conflict - found an interesting article in the Australian press - http://www.news.com.au/world/two-pe...om-66ad-to-today/story-fndir2ev-1226985449546 I was particularly struck by the maps provided, demonstrating the startling change in political boundaries since 1947.
 
@Mendalla - I missed your post above as I detoured to read other info. Appreciate your comments about the liberals on all sides striving for peace. As I think is often the case, the zealots get more press, and sadly their actions are often destructive.
 
Carolla said:
@Inannawhimsey - I found some of the info on the video you posted to be of interest - the comparison stats - but then as he moved into broad strokes of 'how it is' and 'who's taught what' - Bloom's credibility & bias became of concern to me, so it was interesting to look up his bio.
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But of course -- I'm like that as well -- the information that I agree with I tend to accept automatically, the bits of information I don't agree with I tend to reject...its quite alright to be uncomfortable

It'll be interesting for you to see how your beliefs arise around him

These issues are insanely complex -- they avoid the easy-to-nibble sound bites in a lot of media and are a challenge to my beliefs...

Personally, I like the guy -- he's not some crazed extreme-right-or-left nutjob but rather someone who is very good at research and looking at information as if for the first time and is willing to be wrong. he's actually talked with actual practitioners of the beliefs that he is talking aboot.

He also answers emails :3
 
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Waterfall said:
I'm just curious, how much does anyone think that the Torah, Koran and the Bible have to do with this? Is it purely political or is it all intertwined?
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WC: the second coming probably isn't the best place to ask that? We're really good at saying our opinions, but with very complex stuff like this...eh...there are other places better suited for giving skilled answers...

Part of the answer to that would be for one to really grok how and what one thinks of their own beliefs...

But I'm all for cheerleading :3
 
@Carolla

the real trick is to try to look at all information as if for the first time

which is hard

because we already have our beliefs

our treasured notions, our disgusts, that vie with whatever information we are getting

keep on keepin on!
 
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