Is Ontario headed for another Wynne win?

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Chrystia Freeland warns that liberal democracy is under assault by regimes with well financed and sophisticated espionage and propaganda operations...

Canada Warns U.S. Against ‘Mano-a-Mano’ Mantra on Foreign Policy

James Comey warned recently that Russia will try to interfere in Canada’s 2019 Federal elections. So far, no evidence that Ontario’s were interfered with. Not directly, they weren’t. But they do represent a rise in populism, and the populist phenomenon that’s spreading works in Russia’s favour, regardless, to destabilize the west. As long as people believe the populist crap, and follow that trend - western countries will be starkly divided within, and destabilize themselves, and Russia doesn’t have to do anything.
 
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I actually think the Ontario election was completely about getting rid of the corrupt Wynne government. Fullstop

After 15 years, governments turn over. They just do. Governing parties get sloppy, lazy, forget who they work for. It always happens

New group vows change but that doesn’t usually happen either

Just look at Trudeau.

If the conservatives had chosen ChristineElliot, as really they did except for the weird ranking of votes, likely the conservatives would have gotten even more seats
 
Trudeau is really not the worst we could have. And he is trying to stand up to Trump’s trade tizzy...for which he has the support of all the major parties in Canada...and many if not a majority of citizens in the US, and western leaders around the world. It must be highly uncomfortable to be in the position to stand up to the POTUS. It’s almost unthinkable that we’re in this position. Cut him some slack. He was told there’s a special place in hell for him for trying to protect Canadian industry and jobs... while Trump was off getting cozy with a real tyrant. (I support efforts to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula but the contradiction was rather unprecedented.)

Was Wynne really that bad, or was that the commonly believed storyline? I live in BC...I wasn’t paying really close attention to her while she was premier.
 
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She has been a terrible premiere. In my opinion. Others will disagree. But here Ontario sits with almost as bad a situation as Greece

I wasn’t actually referring to Trudeau and the trade/ trump issues. Though I disagree with how he has managed it. He could have and should have looked for common ground and tried to meet common goals. He didn’t


BUt I was mainly talking about all his sunny ways. All the wonderful changes he was going to make. Yeah. Sure

Things have not improved. He just smiles better. A good looking man who can’t speak well. A nice smile and what else exactly
 
I think ifelliothadbeen chosen, we would now be sitting with no liberal seats and a handful of NDP seats

Not that I would want that though. Governments in our system need a strong voice to pushback against their worse instincts. And that always comes up
 
She has been a terrible premiere. In my opinion. Others will disagree. But here Ontario sits with almost as bad a situation as Greece

I wasn’t actually referring to Trudeau and the trade/ trump issues. Though I disagree with how he has managed it. He could have and should have looked for common ground and tried to meet common goals. He didn’t


BUt I was mainly talking about all his sunny ways. All the wonderful changes he was going to make. Yeah. Sure

Things have not improved. He just smiles better. A good looking man who can’t speak well. A nice smile and what else exactly
How do you know he didn’t. Are you suggesting he didn’t employ sunny ways (ie looking for common ground), and is at fault for that? Yet, sunny ways are also his weakness? Which is it? If the world has learned anything, we’ve learned that Trump looks out for Trump. I don’t think that is Trudeau’s fault at all.
 
Lastpointe said:
I am saying that he hasn’t managed it well

And how, in your estimation should he have handle it?

My Observation is that Trump may have bitten off more than he can chew in making Canada public enemy #1.

Certainly we now have a rather half-assed apology from one of the toadies who also decided to pile on the PM. The other had a heart attack and I am not hearing a lot of sympathy directed his way.

Both Trudeau an Freeland are behaving as adults and there is a rising sentiment within the US that Trump's threats are not going to get much support in either the House or Senate.

Apart from Trump threats they are measured in hot-air.

Hilary still roams the streets freely, there is no wall, and America is nowhere near being great again.

Canada has her problems. So far few compare to the Nepotistic Toddler who tantrums nightly on Twitter.
 
How do you know he didn’t do the best anyone could? Trump is not a normal president.

Because after seeing how his father and Chretien handled their respective presidents, I can safely say either of them would have handled Trump even better. That said, Trudeau hasn't done half bad given he's not the strongest PM we've had on diplomacy (his Conservative predecessor was no great shakes on that front either). He may well be the best we could put up right now (in fact, I would say he is) but I'm not sure that he's doing the best anyone could, only the best anyone currently in the field could.

So I guess I'm saying you and @Lastpointe are both right to some degree.
 
Trudeau Sr. never had to deal with the likes of Trump. Nobody has, in anyone’s recent memory, had to deal with a POTUS, our closest trading partner and ally, like Trump. Nixon was probably easy to work with, by comparison. Bush seems very reasonable, compared to Trump...so Chretien’s job was easier, too.
 
She has been a terrible premiere. In my opinion. Others will disagree. But here Ontario sits with almost as bad a situation as Greece

I wasn’t actually referring to Trudeau and the trade/ trump issues. Though I disagree with how he has managed it. He could have and should have looked for common ground and tried to meet common goals. He didn’t


BUt I was mainly talking about all his sunny ways. All the wonderful changes he was going to make. Yeah. Sure

Things have not improved. He just smiles better. A good looking man who can’t speak well. A nice smile and what else exactly

I don't totally disagree with your assessment of Trudeau. To be blunt, I'd still choose him over Scheer. But there have certainly been several disappointments. But "He could have and should have looked for common ground and tried to meet common goals." Seriously? He spent 18 months trying to cozy up to Trump, not get the Great Leader angry, playing to his ego, negotiating in good faith. Then he holds one press conference (which he had to hold because he was the host of the G7 Summit) and in answer to a question restates the Canadian position which has been stated many, many times before without making any waves at all and Trump and his minions suddenly go off on childish temper tantrums? Are you serious? If I've heard criticism of Trudeau on the trade/US relations front it's that he hasn't been tough enough with the Americans. Personally, I think he's handled Trump and trade as well as anyone could have.

As for Wynne - Ontario is nowhere near being in a situation as bad as Greece. That's sheer ignorance. Greece's problems have far more to do with the failures of the European Union and the euro, along with endemic corruption, citizens who routinely refuse to pay taxes and a bureaucracy that doesn't bother to enforce its tax laws and an economy that's extremely weaker than Ontario's. The only problem Ontario's deficit/debt really causes is the percentage of the budget that has to go to cover interest payments, thus limiting the government's fiscal and program flexibility. But Ontario's in no danger of going broke or defaulting on any loans. Comparisons to Greece are utterly nonsensical. Even the Fraser Institute - as right wing a think tank as there is in this country - while noting some areas of similarity said "Given Ontario’s higher per capita GDP, it is a stretch to argue that Ontario is akin to Greece in terms of its fiscal problems." They simply noted that there are lessons to be learned from the Greek meltdown.

Wynne's biggest failure was the sale of Hydro One. That's when her approval ratings started to crash. It was a cynical ploy to pump some fast cash into the government coffers to artificially hide the deficit. There was also her equally cynical pre-election "goodies" budget, which disgusted many people, including me. "Corruption" has been overstated. Most of the examples of "corruption" date back to the McGuinty years. People say "but she was in the Cabinet." Yes - but she was Education Minister, and I don't recall any scandals or corruption in that portfolio. The "worst" example of "corruption" that can be directly laid on Wynne's lap is probably the attempted buy off of a candidate for a Liberal nomination of a by-election in Sault Ste. Marie with a government job to make way for a "star" candidate. Wow. A party offers a government job to someone to open up a seat for someone else. Like that's never happened before. That wasn't even on my radar in deciding how to vote. The only thing that made me shake my head about that was that the guy who was offered the government job was stupid enough not to take it. That stupidity alone should disqualify him from either public office or a government job.

Wynne's loss was basically because the Liberals were tired and out of ideas other than throwing money around and people were tired of them. It was a "vote for change" election - as evidence by the fact that Ontario voted for a change that wasn't even really spelled out in any coherent or consistent way. The PCs could have been led by a broken down dishwasher and they'd have won a majority. Tax cuts and increased spending - with little suggestion of how that will be paid for, except for finding these undefined "efficiencies."

I'd suggest that those of us who own homes start to get ready for much higher property taxes as the province downloads programs on to municipalities, whose only source of income to pay is property taxes. As a parent I'm also preparing for the return of the wars with teachers that were commonplace under the Harris government - because the $6000 tax credit for private day care and private schools that was promised will almost surely (if implemented) come out of the Education budget, meaning less money for public school boards, program cuts in public schools and renewed attacks on teachers by people who wouldn't even want to imagine standing in front of a classroom of 30 kids. (And it will benefit only those with money because who has enough cash to fork out up front for private school tuition even if you get a tax credit for it at the end of the year?) My daughter starts high school in September. Her years in high school will coincide with the Ford government's term of office. To be honest, I'm worried about that.
 
Nobody in their right minds could’ve predicted this 5 yrs ago...and I am not sure anyone knows how to do any better because Trump is Trump. But this is not about Ontario. I commented here a few posts up because the spread of populism in Ontario is not a good thing...the populist mentality certainly doesn’t make Canada safer from Russian interference in our Federal elections.
 
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revsdd said:
Seriously? He spent 18 months trying to cozy up to Trump, not get the Great Leader angry, playing to his ego, negotiating in good faith. . . sinister deletia . . . Personally, I think he's handled Trump and trade as well as anyone could have.

This.

The Liberal Government put together a team to deal with Trump. A team which included Brian Mulroney as an advisor because Brian has links to Trump. Either Brian gave bad advice to Trudeau or Trump is so unpredictable that Brian can't pin him down.

Trump's tariffs. That is part of the same business acumen that caused him to own casinos and still lose money hand over fist.

revsdd said:
As for Wynne - Ontario is nowhere near being in a situation as bad as Greece.


Not even worse than other Canadian Provinces which are also not Greece

revsdd said:
Wynne's biggest failure was the sale of Hydro One. That's when her approval ratings started to crash.

She should have just taken out a 99 year lease like the 407.

And while the Premiere designate hasn't weighed in yet it appears that advisors are already now suggesting that he sell off what portions of Hydro One the Province retains for, the influx of cash that would bring to the Province. Which is a very different strategy from the corrupt Liberals who only sold part off for quick cash and kept the rest for the revenue it would generate.


But who cares, less taxes from the Province always means more money in our pocket, from which the regions who have to pick up what has been downloaded from the Province can help themselves.
 
I am saying that he hasn’t managed it well

By that measuring stick, the only leaders who "manage Trump well" are Netanyahu and Kim Jong Il...

Also, I'd like to point out that while the Ontario Liberals started the official sell-off of Hydro One, it was the Conservatives before them who set up the whole restructured utility, with the goal of total privatization: "In October 1998, the provincial government of Premier Mike Harris passed the Energy Competition Act which restructured Ontario Hydro into separate entities responsible for electrical generation, transmission/delivery, and price management with a final goal of total privatization." Wiki.
 
Cynical me suggests, though, that the PCs actually had ideological reasons for doing it while she was going for the quick cash. I have more respect for the former than the latter, even if I disagree with that ideology.
 
Mendalla said:
Cynical me suggests, though, that the PCs actually had ideological reasons for doing it while she was going for the quick cash. I have more respect for the former than the latter, even if I disagree with that ideology.

A dumb decision was never made better because of the ideology that was or wasn't attached to it.

And Criticism of the Liberal decision to sell off shares of Hydro One only share one specific ideological tenant. Best summed up as "Liberal bad/we good." On the political level it represents the logical fallacy of fallacy of Genetics/origin/virtue. It is a hypocritical position.
 
Greed is a slippery slope and thus the Greek slide that has carried over because of our worship of volition …

Some say it is a funny avarice … that is a virtue uncontrolled!
 
Greed is a slippery slope and thus the Greek slide that has carried over because of our worship of volition …

Some say it is a funny avarice … that is a virtue uncontrolled!
yeah
Genetic fallacy is hardwired into Bibble
Original Sin
Infecting all of Humanity
Oh how powerful we humans are...no wonder Deity confined us to this small ball of dirt. Our power must b contained lol
I wonder if She'll pull another Tower of Babel incident on us again?
 
yeah
Genetic fallacy is hardwired into Bibble
Original Sin
Infecting all of Humanity
Oh how powerful we humans are...no wonder Deity confined us to this small ball of dirt. Our power must b contained lol
I wonder if She'll pull another Tower of Babel incident on us again?

Ecce logos … if logic … we lost it a long time ago along with the God of Wisdom as we demanded a state of not knowing … innocence, naivete and ignorance all well rolled … therein the totem as logged! Iconic sigh in the woods? Odin … someone got it … even though we were told ignorance was best!

You know you shouldn't know … calm bash ion … or it could strike yah … and you could come out bashful about the consequential condition ... conjured? Judgemental state of what shouldn't have been done during the ester oidial period? Tacky? Maybe depending on who wanted what ...
 
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