Rita - since you don't believe in young earth creationism - what do you prefer as the alternative? How does the fall of humanity fit into that which you subscribe to?
I don't vaccinate my child because it's my right to determine which diseases come back
- Thread starter chansen
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
Rita - since you don't believe in young earth creationism - what do you prefer as the alternative? How does the fall of humanity fit into that which you subscribe to?
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
And this is where you screw up. You assume the book is right, and disregard evidence to the contrary. Without one stupid apple, your belief system falls apart. It's that fragile. You can't let that happen, so you'd rather live in a state of denial of facts, where your belief system falls apart to onlookers.
You're screwed here. Either way, your beliefs go down in flames.
*chuckle* "apple."
I'll wait for Rita's answer thanks chansen.
I'd ask you the same - but I know you hold the comfortable opinion that humanity isn't fallen.
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't have the comfort of a religion. I'm not under the influence of a delusion that I carry to make me feel smug that I'm due some great reward.
And I still openly wonder if you're really a YEC, or if this is one of your trolling experiments.
And I still openly wonder if you're really a YEC, or if this is one of your trolling experiments.
Okay. I can say the same.
ChemGal
One with keen eye
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Young Earth Creationist
Ritafee
Is Being Human
I see the thread has taken a turn ... but based on where it started and reading through the many posts ...some wild, some insulting and some thoughtful and reasoned ...I conclude that the case for or against vaccination is unproven either way. It appears that the statistics ... can be interpreted to support whatever case the presenter wishes to make ...whatever anyone here has said, no matter how reasonable, passionate or even regardless of whether they are right or wrong ... as a general rule has just been added as reinforcement to what they already believe they believe ... even if they don't know why they really believed it in the first place. Until we develop ways to enshrine honesty and a lack of bias into science (by divorcing ALL research from corporate/government sponsorship) we will never find the truth in any discussion of this type (referring to the vaccine issue ... not going anywhere near derail).
Seeler
Well-Known Member
We lived in near a large army base in Nova Scotia in the early 1940s. Children had to have proof of smallpox vaccination before they started school - that meant a scar. If a person didn't develop a scar it was considered that the vaccination didn't 'take' and they had to have it again. My older sister was vaccinated five times without developing the telltale blister and scar. Finally the doctor gave Mom a letter to take to the school to have her admitted.
I have a scar on my upper arm - so did everyone I knew (except my sister) when I was growing up.
I have a scar on my upper arm - so did everyone I knew (except my sister) when I was growing up.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Where Conservative Skepticism Falls Short By Lawrence Solomon The American Thinker June 30, 2014
“Lawrence Solomon is a columnist with the Financial Post, the author of The Deniers, and the research director of the Consumer Policy Institute.“
“Lawrence Solomon is a columnist with the Financial Post, the author of The Deniers, and the research director of the Consumer Policy Institute.“
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Seriously? This thread has nothing to do with science and proof. This thread is a few of us stating oppinions. I would not expect the oppinions of twenty or so people to change anyones mind
But seriously, the science on the efficacy and need for vaccinations is huge, done , proven, fact.......... It is not unproven either way as you say. It is only those who like to get their scientific knowledge from sceptics and the Jenny McCarthy's of the world , who dont see the science in it
As for where the money comes from. If you dont want governments or corporations to fund any reasearch into anything , exactly who would be doing scientific reasearch into anything. Billionaires who decided to become scientists and spend their own money? And why would they be unbiased? Even if that weree the case.
People invent things and study things based on a need. An idea, A desire to cure something. But they will still have biases
If i am one of these independantlywealthy scientists spending my own money and my child has a rare uncurable disease' what disease do you think i will be studying Not likely the one your child has
I think we SHOULD ask questions and play the devil's advocate because we care about future generations.Yes vaccines have worked well for our generation, but will they always continue to work is a big question for me. Will they lose their efficacy? Will they eventually create a generation that has not developed any immunities and thus open a door for future outbreaks of "past" diseases? Are we unconcerned about the generations beyond our own grandchildren? Do we place too much hope and emphasis on science to always come up with something and do we feel we are capable to resolve any future issues because of vaccines? Basically will these diseases someday outsmart us because we are already possibly seeing sporadic outbreaks of measles, mumps, etc....even in the vaccinated crowd? Small pox seems to have been a great success but will that apply to every vaccine and does every disease require a vaccine that has one?
Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
I think that is a valid point. Will we develop issues with vaccines as we have with antibiotics? Antibiotic issues relate to overuse and misuse. On both the part of prescribing docs and consuming public.
I remember when my father in law died. He was a frugal man but well educated. As an engineer he was very "button down" and logical.
Yet , when i opened a cupboard there were dozens of bottles of pills. He had bits. Of tons of prescriptions that i assume he used when he felt the need to cure something.
I took three grocery bags of bottles of pills back to the pharmacy for disposal. Old and not complettely used antibiotics were part of his stash
I remember when my father in law died. He was a frugal man but well educated. As an engineer he was very "button down" and logical.
Yet , when i opened a cupboard there were dozens of bottles of pills. He had bits. Of tons of prescriptions that i assume he used when he felt the need to cure something.
I took three grocery bags of bottles of pills back to the pharmacy for disposal. Old and not complettely used antibiotics were part of his stash
chansen
Had a point all along
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yes, we should be skeptical. We should ask questions. The regulators should be skeptical of drug companies, and the public should be skeptical that government regulators aren't getting too cozy with the drug companies. But not just for future generations, but for the here and now. If we remain skeptical, then the future is taken care of, or at least as much as we can do about it today.
Well, got a better idea? Vaccines are quire clever in that they help the body's own immune system recognize and kill microorganisms that cause diseases. It's not the same as, say, antibiotics, where over-prescription can accelerate the evolution of antibiotic-resistance strains of bacteria.
The use of vaccines has been one of the great medical success stories, with very few downsides. It is a landslide win for vaccines. But some idiots insist on focusing on the negative, and inventing negative stories around vaccines. And I'd bet they are responsible for more death and suffering than vaccines have ever caused.
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
I prefer truth Jae ..... truth ... even when it is uncomfortable and challenges my beliefs....
A very old earth and evolution are fact ..... truth .... plain and simple....
If my beliefs contradict fact then my beliefs are wrong and need changing.
The fall of humanity ... oh my .... as a metaphor and story to explain how we choose to sin ... the story is very applicable.
Even Jesus used stories called parables to explain concepts in easier to relate to terms...... good enough for me....
Here is the thing Jae .... like it or not .... the facts are not going to change to accommodate either your beliefs or mine.
Maybe it is time to find the courage to do the scary thing and open our eyes to the truth. We will have to put aside some very comfortable simplistic interpretations of scripture and actually dare to dig deeper. I suppose that is all part of weaning off the milk of the word and learning to digest the meat.
Any belief that cannot stand up to question and scrutiny is not worth putting any weight on at all.
Any belief that contradicts fact needs to be discarded and a new approach taken.
I know you will say that the facts regarding a very old earth and evolution are not facts at all.
Again .... Galileo and Copernicus had the same problem.
Sincerely
Rita
I agree. I recently got over-prescribed antibiotics, I think, but that was because I was concerned about a little cough I had and my husband just got out of hospital from having had pneumonia so was maybe more concerned than I otherwise would be. I don't usually take antibiotics for every respiratory complaint like lots of people do- this time I don't believe it was viral (it's possble it was allergic) I didn't have a cold, but they didn't varify for bacterial infection first in my case - the doctor just gave me antibiotics. But they wouldn't also give me a flu shot when I asked for it. I don't really know why or understand the reasoning for that. Anyway I might go back for it.
Last edited:
It's hard to complain/question though when you have this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injury_Act
Basically pharmaceutical companies are not liable anymore, so why bother testing for longer lengths of time when you can fast track, (eg gardisil was tested for only 15 months) especially if you have monopolized the vaccine market.
http://veritasnews.com/obscure-law-...njury-compensation-program-pays-out-billions/
Last edited:
ChemGal
One with keen eye
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
What exactly do you mean by this?
ChemGal
One with keen eye
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Agree with this.
It depends by what you mean by 'focusing on the negative'. Absolutely by those inventing stories. I do think a bit of research on the negative sides will lead to safer vaccines. If everything is 100% great, there's no need to improve. It isn't though, and I think research focusing one whether some people get too much, and others not enough of a response will lead to safer and more effective vaccination strategy and possibly better vaccines as well.