How to read/study: Heaven and Hell : A History of the Afterlife by Bart Ehrman

[unsafe]

Redbaron ------you said ---- Ehrman is not preaching false doctrine.

LOL ---that is your opinion ---and I am not surprised by your assumption-----

Well there Redbaron -------The Scripture says different------ and I believe scripture NOT you or any person who believes Mr Bart is preaching a positive message of God's word -----The unbelieving person cannot and will not accept what God says in His word as it is Spiritually discerned ---Satan has Mr Bart in his grip ------and that is the real truth

! Corinthians 2:14

CEB
But people who are unspiritual don’t accept the things from God’s Spirit. They are foolishness to them and can’t be understood, because they can only be comprehended in a spiritual way.

I say
Also God warns His Children of listening to False Prophets many --many times in scripture ---------Mr Bart is definitely one who follows other False Prophets and what they are peddling ----Crossan is Bart's hero -----In his videos and I have listened to many as of late he often mentions Crossan and says Crossan says this and that -----and he believes what Crossan says ------


Well God says this -----this scripture is directed to Carnal Christians ----those who say they follow Christ but who can be easily swayed to listen to false teachings ------

Galatians 1:6-8 (CSB)​

No Other Gospel​

6 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from him who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are troubling you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, a curse be on him![a]

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----------What Mr Bart is peddling is a different Gospel ---------Bart is distorting the Gospel of Christ ----and what he is saying is contrary to what God says -------and he has many followers and is sending them straight to the place he says doesn't exist ------Hell ----

So stop your whining about the truth being brought forth -------that Mr Bart is a false Prophet and is peddling false historical facts about the scripture ----saying man created heaven and hell in this minds in this and that century and Jesus never preached on heaven and hell --------and that souls don't leave the body when they die when scripture confirms that it does -----People are listening to this nonsense and believing it -----Satan is having a hay day duping people like Mr Bart and his followers ------very say --

 

[unsafe]

Ritafee ---you said -----Bart is exercising his free will to challenge what he interprets as your false doctrine by way of his own historical research around the human creation of the heaven and hell narratives.

i say ----Yes he is definitely using his free will to be influenced by the god of this world there Ritafee-----who is Satan ---I agree with that -----His Historical research that he is doing is not from God ---it is from Satan who has free will and reign to influence the minds of people to reject God and the truth of His word ----and that is what Mr Bart is peddling to others -------who you listen to key -----there are 2 sides ----one side sends people to hell which is a real pace according to God and the other side sends to to heaven which is a real pace according to God ------

His historical research that humans created heaven and hell which would be in their minds only is a ridiculous assumption and is going against what God says in His word therefore he is peddling wrong historical facts from his research ---and he is profiting off his mockery of God and God's word -----and he is sending people to their Doom -----he is a millionaire -----he is doing this for his own greed of money -in my view -- not because this research is what he really believes ------

In the first video on OP page at 21-22 seconds in Michael Shermer says this to Bart -----as they are talking the research of the soul as to what the soul is or isn't -----well this is the part of the book that is going to shake up a lot of Modern Christians -------and that is the idea of what they are trying to do -----
Shake up what God says about the soul and confuse people ----make them believe what I say so they will buy my book and make me famous ------

100 Bible Verses about Your Soul-----https://www.openbible.info/topics/your_soul​

---Mr Bart says at the 23-24 second mark ---- what is really going to make people up set is when I says Jesus didn't believe in heaven or hell --laughing with great joy as he says this -------and that is their cause to confuse and refute what God does say in His word ------this doing historical research is just a farce ----- in my view

I do not believe for one minute that Bart does believe that Jesus never talked about heaven or hell -----I believe he wants people to buy his book and this is his hook to get them to buy it -----

His Hook also is Everything you were taught about heaven and hell IS WRONG ------he has never been to either place so he has no knowledge of either place and That Is A Fact --------and the Real Truth of the matter -----

Mr Bart will know for sure when he dies and bows before God and has to answer for his False teachings and sending people to their DOOM ---wouldn't want to be him ----


From Google

He net worth has been growing significantly in 2018-19. So, how much is Bart D. Ehrman worth at the age of 65 years old?
...
Bart D. Ehrman Net Worth.

Net Worth in 2020	$1 Million - $5 Million

 

[Mendalla]

So what, @unsafe? He's a successful author and a university professor. Both pay pretty well and he's probably been investing at least some of that money. In fact, a net worth in that range does not seem at all out of line for someone like him based on my experience.

@unsafe, Ehrman can't be preaching false doctrine because he is not preaching in this book. It is a text about the history of ideas, not a sermon. He himself would likely laugh at you if you told him he was preaching doctrine, false or not. I realize that the very idea that Christianity can have an historical context and be studied in this way probably offends you to start with since you think it was just handed down from heaven by God, but accusing someone of doing something they aren't even intending to do is ridiculous. And everyone else on this board seems to recognize that.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla ------ and you have every right to think that ------he is preaching false doctrine Mendalla ---he is going against what God is saying in his word ----and anything that goes against what God says in His word --is False doctrine -------and this board agrees with me -anything that contradicts God's word is False Doctrine ----and he is contradicting God's word

here is a perfect example ----read all here --I only posted some ----

Bart Ehrman, the Afterlife, and Hell: Misrepresenting Jesus Again - Apologetics Press

It is simply mind-boggling to see how anyone as educated in the field of biblical research as Bart Erhman is, could so egregiously mispresent the Bible’s teaching on the soul and afterlife. In his recent article, titled “What Jesus Really Said about Heaven and Hell,” he claims that, “The Hebrew...

www.apologeticspress.org

Bart Ehrman, the Afterlife, and Hell: Misrepresenting Jesus Again​

by	Kyle Butt, M.Div.

It is simply mind-boggling to see how anyone as educated in the field of biblical research as Bart Erhman is, could so egregiously mispresent the Bible’s teaching on the soul and afterlife. In his recent article, titled “What Jesus Really Said about Heaven and Hell,” he claims that, “The Hebrew Bible itself assumes that the dead are simply dead—that their body lies in the grave and there is no consciousness, ever again.”1 He further declared, “Neither Jesus, nor the Hebrew Bible he interpreted, endorsed the view that departed souls go to paradise or everlasting pain.” In order to make such statements, and have any hope of being taken seriously by an honest reader, Dr. Ehrman must rely on the tragic, but all-too-true reality, that most people have not read the Bible. Those who have given sincere, and thoughtful attention to the biblical text are struck by the discordance between Ehrman’s teaching and the Bible’s plain statements.

Ehrman claims that the Old Testament teaches that once a person dies, there is no consciousness after death. That would mean that the Bible writers did not believe in a soul or spirit that lived on after the physical body died. Therefore, if we could show just one instance of the Old Testament representing a conscious, disembodied spirit of any person, it would refute Ehrman’s claim. Such an example is not difficult to find. In 1 Samuel 28 we read the intriguing story of King Saul disguising himself and visiting a spiritualist referred to as the medium of Endor. In the account, Saul asks the women to, “Bring up Samuel for me” (1 Samuel 28:11). The women states, “I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth” (vs. 13). The spirit turns out to be that of the physically dead prophet Samuel. He then appears to Saul and asks why Saul would disturb him. The spirit of Samuel then explains to Saul that because of his disobedience, “tomorrow you and your sons will be with me” (vs. 19). The next day Saul and his sons were killed in battle. Their bodies remained on the Earth, while their spirits went to be with Samuel. Regardless of whether or not you believe the story and it’s supernatural elements2, it cannot reasonably be denied that this story represents the belief that although Samuel’s body was dead, his disembodied spirit lived on.

The New Testament overwhelmingly supports the teaching that the soul lives on after death

 

[unsafe]

The Consciousness of the Soul After Death​

https://bible.org/seriespage/8-consciousness-soul-after-death--------

read all ---just posting this

Because of the universal interest in the whereabouts of the dead, false sects prey upon the public, claiming complete knowledge of the subject. Such groups and others have spread the sophistical conclusion that at death the body returns to dust and the soul becomes unconscious.

Such statements as the following are but a few of the distortions and perversions of the Holy Scriptures that have to do with the soul after death.

I say
So you can say what you like but he is distorting Scripture ----which is his right to do ----and I have a right to challenge it and present what God says about the subject -----by presenting Scripture which says it is The Truth ----

 

[Mendalla]

he is preaching false doctrine Mendalla

Parse this out: Ehrman ... is ... not ... preaching. He is not a minister. In fact, right in the book, he makes it clear that he is not discussing whether or not Heaven and Hell even exist. He leaves that to the reader. The book is a history of Christian thoughts and ideas on the subject and how previous traditions' ideas influenced those. It may, indeed, be a history of beliefs that are false to someone like you but he is not promoting those beliefs, only looking at how they developed historically. It is a HISTORY book, not a DOCTRINE book.

And, frankly, whether the doctrine is false or not does not matter one bit on this board. You are welcome here, but you need to be clear on what this place is and why it exists. We are a discussion board about religion and spirituality in general, not a Christian board and not a board for promulgating doctrines of any faith, true or false. Studying a book like this that delves into the history of ideas is quite on point for a site like this. If you want a board that doesn't study books like this, find a nice evangelical Christian board to hang out on. Maybe GotQuestions or someplace like that has forums?

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla ----thanks for setting me straight ------so now you can just go and carry on with your false distortion of God's divine word and have no one to refute it ----

I get it ----fine by me --carry on ----remember---- your the one said I could post my views here on this thread ---you gave me the OK to refute what Mr Bart was peddling -----

Post # 35 ---this is your quote to BetteTheRed -----Just to clarify -------

Wrong thread, Bette. This is the thread in R&F about the book study, not the book study itself. This one is an open discussion and if unsafe wants to warn us about how misguided we are to be studying Dr. Ehrman's work, this is where it should happen.

So now you don't like the open discussion of Bart's misguided words ------so now you close it ---LOL ---

 

[Redbaron]

We love open, honest discussion of intelligent ideas. Many of us are enjoying reading and sharing ideas raised in the book and sparked by the book.

What we could live without is the doctrinaire attitude of certain individuals who believe they know better, and who seemed to be threatened by different thoughts and different ideas, trying like a mad wet mother hen to corral us all into her own severely restricted ideology.

From the mission statement for WC 2:
WonderCafe2 is a home for open-minded discussion and exploration of spiritual topics, moral issues and life's big questions. It is also a community where we laugh, cry, share and have some fun together.

If open discussions and explorations of spiritual issues are that threatening to your comfort zone, maybe you should avoid reading certain threads that tick you off.

 

[dreamerman]

Mendalla ----thanks for setting me straight ------so now you can just go and carry on with your false distortion of God's divine word and have no one to refute it ----

I get it ----fine by me --carry on ----remember---- your the one said I could post my views here on this thread ---you gave me the OK to refute what Mr Bart was peddling -----

Post # 35 ---this is your quote to BetteTheRed -----Just to clarify -------

Wrong thread, Bette. This is the thread in R&F about the book study, not the book study itself. This one is an open discussion and if unsafe wants to warn us about how misguided we are to be studying Dr. Ehrman's work, this is where it should happen.

So now you don't like the open discussion of Bart's misguided words ------so now you close it ---LOL ---

I for one find what you post hilarious. You keep me wanting more. I don't know if that was the affect you were going for though. Keep up the comedy gold unsafe.

 

[paradox3]

Has anyone read other books by Ehrman? Any recommendations? He seems to be a prolific author.

 

[Mendalla]

Has anyone read other books by Ehrman? Any recommendations? He seems to be a prolific author.

I don't have in mind just now. He's done some courses for the Great Courses, which I can access via my library on Kanopy but I haven't watched any of his yet.

One of the courses is How Jesus Became God, which I think is also a book but I haven't checked to confirm.

 

[unsafe]

Redbaron ---you said ----What we could live without is the doctrinaire attitude of certain individuals who believe they know better, and who seemed to be threatened by different thoughts and different ideas, trying like a mad wet mother hen to corral us all into her own severely restricted ideology

LOL -----Your the one who is threatened by the truth ----the truth refruts the one who distorts ----The light shines out the darkness ----and that is the threat ----and you don't like what the light brings forth ----that is the problem here ---squash the light so the darkness can stay in the game ----

 

[Luce NDs]

Redbaron ---you said ----What we could live without is the doctrinaire attitude of certain individuals who believe they know better, and who seemed to be threatened by different thoughts and different ideas, trying like a mad wet mother hen to corral us all into her own severely restricted ideology

LOL -----Your the one who is threatened by the truth ----the truth refruts the one who distorts ----The light shines out the darkness ----and that is the threat ----and you don't like what the light brings forth ----that is the problem here ---squash the light so the darkness can stay in the game ----

Keep up the humor!

 

[Redbaron]

Redbaron ---you said ----What we could live without is the doctrinaire attitude of certain individuals who believe they know better, and who seemed to be threatened by different thoughts and different ideas, trying like a mad wet mother hen to corral us all into her own severely restricted ideology

LOL -----Your the one who is threatened by the truth ----the truth refruts the one who distorts ----The light shines out the darkness ----and that is the threat ----and you don't like what the light brings forth ----that is the problem here ---squash the light so the darkness can stay in the game ----

Umm hmm. Which one of us us scared of new ideas or different thoughts? (Hint: it isn't me)

 

[paradox3]

I have put holds on two more of his books at the library. I am enjoying the author's ideas but finding his style a little dry. Maybe it's just Covid brain

 

[Mendalla]

I am enjoying the author's ideas but finding his style a little dry.

He's an academic. Goes with the territory, I think.

 

[Mendalla]

The study has been flagging a bit of late, but I am doing two chapters of Ehrman's book at once, both to get things back on track and because they kind of go together to cover the topic, namely Classical Greek and Roman views of the afterlife. The link goes to first post of this group, covering chapter 3. Read both chapters and the discussion ideas I present before responding, please and thank you.

Heaven and Hell, by Bart Ehrman

If hell exists only for those who fear it, can we apply the same logic to heaven? Does heaven exist only for those who anticipate it???

www.wondercafe2.ca

 

[Mendalla]

Just a bump to say that Chapter 5, which begins looking at the Bible, is now up for discussion. It covers the early Hebrew ideas from the periods of the kingdom of Israel, the split between Israel and Judah, and the major prophets. Chapter 6, going up soon, looks at the post-Exilic era, when ideas about individual resurrection started to appear.

Heaven and Hell, by Bart Ehrman

If hell exists only for those who fear it, can we apply the same logic to heaven? Does heaven exist only for those who anticipate it???

www.wondercafe2.ca

 

[Mendalla]

Locked the thread. Have not really had much response to the last few chapters, which does not exactly inspire me to keep going. BPotW seems to be getting a better response for now so I'm going to focus on that.