Giving to PanHandlers

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One thing is important. Whether money, condoms, syringes or affirmation, my intention was and is always directed to strengthen the esteem of the person met. The gift of tangible goods alone will change little. As Bette notes, it will make a material difference. It will not, in most cases, address the spiritual opportunity for inclusion and affirmation.
 
I'd like to see less need for charity and more demand for justice ... I would rather be the receiver of justice than charity ... I think it should be a universal law (punishable by being subjected to charity?) that you are not allowed to ignore injustice ...
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By:
Bob Hepburn Politics, Published on Wed Dec 11 2013
For decades now, the percentage of Canadians living in poverty has barely budged despite massive government spending on social programs aimed at helping the poor, the disabled, seniors and children.

Today, about 10 per cent of Canadians live in poverty. That figure is even higher in some major cities, such as Toronto where the number of children living below the line is nearly 25 per cent.

Those shocking figures aren’t likely to improve — and indeed may worsen — in coming years as Ottawa continues to hack away at our thinning social safety net.

“From the unemployed to low-income families and poor seniors, more people than ever are struggling with grim choices as they try to cope in the leaner, meaner Canada presided over by Prime Minister Stephen Harper,” wrote reporter Les Whittington of the Star’s Ottawa bureau in a ground-breaking three-part series this week on the erosion of Canada’s social programs.

The series prompts the question: Is it really possible to have a poverty-free Canada?

For many experts, the answer is a clear yes, and the best way to reach that goal is through a guaranteed annual income.

It’s a radical idea that to date has been largely dismissed by government leaders as too costly, too difficult to implement and lacking in public support.

Because of the perception that voters don’t generally like the idea, few politicians bother even to think about such a program, let alone come out in support of it.

However a major new polled conducted this fall may provide the evidence that some risk-averse politicians need before giving their support to a guaranteed annual income.

The survey showed more Canadians like the idea than oppose it.

The findings are important because it’s the first time a national poll has ever asked Canadians what they think of the idea of providing everyone with a guaranteed income.

Such a program “is often dismissed as giving free money to people who won’t work,” said Keith Neuman, executive director of the Environics Institute for Survey Research, which conducted the poll earlier this fall for the Montreal-based Trudeau Foundation.

Neuman said the results suggest there’s a “potential foundation for building public support for it (guaranteed income) by some bold government,” especially if it was accompanied by the elimination of other programs.

A guaranteed annual income is a single, cash payment that would replace all current social programs, such as welfare and employment insurance.

It would create a minimum income below which no Canadian would fall. Statistics Canada now sets a “low-income line” at about $22,200 for a single person and $47,000 for a family with three children.

Proponents, such as Conservative Senator Hugh Segal, argue such a plan wouldn’t cost Ottawa more money because it would get the needed dollars from other programs that would be killed. Also, they contend the idea would actually encourage people to work because it would eliminate provisions in the current welfare system that penalize the poor who take very low-paying or part-time jobs.

The poll found 46 per cent of Canadians strongly (19 per cent) or somewhat (27 per cent) favour such a policy. Another 42 per cent said they strongly (25 per cent) or somewhat (17 per cent) oppose the idea. About 10 per cent said it would depend on how such a program was actually implemented or had no opinion.

Support was highest in Quebec at 55 per cent and lowest in Alberta at 38 per cent. A majority of Canadians with household incomes under $100,000 and those with no post-secondary education also backed the idea while support was lowest (38 per cent) amongst Canadians earning more than $100,000.

To date, no major national political party has embraced the idea of a guaranteed income, although all talk vaguely about the need to study it more closely just like any other policy option.

Clearly we are in an era when our politicians are more wary than brave, afraid to champion new programs for fear of upsetting voters whose minds are focused only on cutting taxes.

As Keith Neuman says, it would require a bold government to make the guaranteed income a reality.

Given the poll results though, the idea could be a winner for the political party with the courage to make it a serious part of the debate on tackling poverty in our country.
 
more musings

we treat people within our own tribe differently than we treat those outside of our tribe; it has actually been noticed that we lie quicker & more to protect those within our own tribe and that this is an unconscious, automatic act and can be triggered for trivial things.

so yeah, 'blind' lady justice: the fair treatment of human beings regardless of tribal affiliation (y)

human beings (and it has been noticed in some animals now -- we humans are so ignorant, catching up to the real world) seem to have an innate moral sense of fairness; if we see something unfair, we will tend to treat that person with disgust or have a desire for revenge of some sort -- this explains, i think, why people would react badly to a homeless person buying a coffee at Starbucks


now all this comes with the caveat that this might not be universal; one of the current issues is that all of this studying of 'human nature' has been done on us WEIRD people -- Western Educated Industrialized Rich Democratic. i think this came out when people intentionally tried out a prisoner's dilemma on Americans and some people from Peru, and how the Americans acted was different from the people from Peru; here's a more detailed discussion of the event -- it turns out that Americans were more fair givers than the Peruvians, yet the Peruvians didn't punish like the Americans did when given unfair amount of money.

so what you and i think of as normal (and, thus, a human universal) may not indeed be in other parts of the world...this, of course, have sent scientists into a tizzy...various scientific magazines don't want to have to change their name to 'WEIRD Anthropology'...and a lot of even economic theory is based on studies like the one above...and we all know how powerful and pernicious the economy is...
 
@Inannawhimsey Okay ... let's start with Canada then ... Clearly we are in an era when our politicians are more wary than brave, afraid to champion new programs for fear of upsetting voters whose minds are focused only on cutting taxes.

How about ...15% across the board ... every canadian ... at the end of the year the only calculation necessary is how much of a refund is available to every citizen in the country ... no more or no less for any citizen ... that includes Steven Harper ... he pays 15% of his income and 15% on everything he purchases ... at the end of the year if the country can only afford profit sharing of $100.00 per Canada corporation share holder (we should all be equal shareholders) then so be it ... Steven Harper would you like yours deposited to your bank account or would you prefer to just put it back into the tax revenue pot?

Why does it always seem so easy to me ... what am I missing ... how does getting rid of all the Bureaucratization not save taxpayers money?

I'm sick of it ... literally to the point of throwing up every time I allow myself to get upset by this whole money game that I have been born into ... yes, I do hate the rich ... will they ever say enough!
 
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i :love: the idea of GAI -- i think it would get rid of so many of our problems with poverty -- including the state's role in the maintenance of poverty
here's a canadian Conservative being interviewed on it; he says GAI will also be cheaper than the current gov't methods of poverty alleviation

it'll be another form of state coercion, but this one will be for the greater good?
 
Here's the continuance of the above video
Neet to hear that GAI has been tried in Canada --kudos to Manitoba -- sad that the gov't ended it
 
Meanwhile, here in Canada, all is sleepy on the inequality front.

The emergence of a super-elite -- we now have roughly 70 billionaires in Canada, and scores of multi-millionaires -- attracts little media or political attention.

Far from seeing the rise of a fantastically wealthy super-elite as a defining issue, Stephen Harper sees it as no more of a problem than climate change -- that is, something to be denied, ignored and quietly adapted to.

The standard explanation for this lack of interest is that, unlike the U.S., we haven't seen a dramatic rise of money going to the top.

But this is just wrong. Of course, nobody beats the U.S. in the inequality Olympics, but we come close to owning the podium.

An OECD study released this month shows that, over the past three decades, the share of income growth going to the top 1 per cent was largest in the United States. But Canada grabbed the silver medal with a strong second, beating out ten other advanced countries in the share of income growth being snagged by its richest citizens.

This suggests we should at least be asking soul-searching questions related to how we feel about living in a plutocracy.

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2014/05/increasing-inequality-and-rise-super-rich-canada
 
Geo, you asked above if the situation has changed for the homeless and near homeless in this city. I don't believe so. Despite efforts by the churches and other organizations we still have the problems you mentioned. And not everybody in our churches has compassion or understanding. Despite our high unemployment rate, and the fact that many of these people have health problems and are unable to work, just last week I heard a member of your former congregation say in an angry tone of voice, "I don't give them a cent. I worked for my money and they can too."
And in my own congregation we still have many people who give the unfortunate a cold shoulder or pass by on the other side.
 
Thanks Seeler... sad but not surprising. With gratitude for the leavening minority which presses for change of mind and commitment.
 
This thread reminds me of this sermon I watched the other day. It's worth watching - the first minute and then again the story he tells from about 6:58 :

thanks for posting this video kimmio. i can always rely on visiting this site to restore my faith in humanity. i really needed that.
 
Our financial situation dictated that we only serve 35 people when we opened today after being closed since mid-June. When I arrived at 8:00 am people were already starting to line up. As some of us prepared the room, got out coffee, muffins, cheese, apples etc as a welcome, and others set out tables of non-perishable food items to supplement the fresh vegies and meat we hope they buy with their vouchers, one of our volunteers when out and passed out numbers to the first 35 to arrive (usually we serve around 20 individuals a week). Those coming later we invited in for coffee but told that we had no more numbers to give out. We opened the door at 9:00. Most people were polite and cooperative. Some of the clients helped me with the non-perishable tables. We had to limit single people to three items (plus two roles of toilet tissue) - they choose from canned tuna, spagetti or other pasta, tomato sauces, other canned good, cereals, peanut butter, whatever had been donated. People with families got extra. It was busy. Some people were upset when told that they would have to come back next week (and try to get here earlier) but all were polite. I got many thank-yous, and some hugs. I wish I could do more.
One of the people running in the provincial election dropped in and circulated around talking to the people. As he and I talked, I suggested that he look around the room--3/4 of the people in the room would be unable to work for various reasons; the others were unable to find work in a province with high unemployment, or were working part time at minimum wage. He had some suggestions of what his party would do if they were elected - I think the best we can hope for is that they win some seats and have the balance of power between the two old entrenched parties.
 
People on welfare are not given a bus pass unless they meet a certain designation - and it is highly subsidized but not free. So, if they are running around between the welfare office, the employment office, a place to find work clothes, a place to do laundry or have a shower, a place that gives free haircuts at specific times, the food bank, the soup kitchen - all on foot - in a way, panhandling gives them some dignity to work for themselves to cover the cracks that are getting missed by the people just shuffling people around between services who don't really understand all their needs - even if they buy some superfluous item with the money they get sometimes - it's not like we never do - so why judge them? It's not like we never buy a candy bar or even a beer once in awhile - maybe even three. They're human too. Not that the agency workers don't have good intentions. But these street people kind of stop feeling like themselves and just a number in an poorly connected system, I think. It's harder work than a lot of people, if not most, who have 'real jobs' have to do - because their very basic survival is on the line and they are up against the cruel elements. There is no employee rights, no protection from abuse, no safety protocol - they are just 'out there' - but they have their own identity that gets lost in the system. I have a different perspective I guess.

The welfare system is very dehumanizing. I feel most compassionately toward those in the system who want to get out but who can't find the way.
 
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Selected verses from the Letter to the Romans



If it isn't your gift don't and don't be critical of those with the gift who choose to exercise it. Instead, uncover your gifts and use them as faithfully.

If giving isn't someone's gift than they shouldn't give? That doesn't sound right John. I mean - not everyone has the gift of evangelism - but all Christians are called to spread the gospel -- not every Christian has the gift of teaching - but we should all share apt words in due season -- surely every follower of Christ should be generous.
 
But given that the homeless person is equally as fed no matter what your intent, I'm not sure I like the extra judgment involved in #2. In fact, it's quite counter to the concept of cognitive behaviour therapy, which is, in essence, "fake it til you make it".

I have a son who is a street person, and often homeless. He is already judged by society as an economic failure, and then, should he actually have the nerve to purchase a coffee in said economic system, is further judged as not worthy of such a treat. (And he has an iPad, which he won (on a ticket I purchased) at a church raffle. It is his only means of communication. He hangs out in wi-fi hot zones and texts or calls people using it, for free. )

Does he want to be a street person? How is that working out for him?
 
My (limited) understanding of economics is that money in circulation feeds the economy.
I recently caught a video on facebook - a couple of young men casually dressed in jeans did an experiment.
First they went into a restaurant and went from table to table telling people that they were hungry and asking if those people had anything to spare. None of those people enjoying their hamburgers, fries, drinks could offer anything.
Next one of the men bought a couple of burgers and a drink and approached a homeless man in a nearby park. After a few minutes conversation he gave this man the bag of burgers and the drink and walked on. Just as the homeless man began eating, the second man approached - started a conversation and said, "I'm hungry. Do you have anything to spare?" He immediately received the second burger.
The same thing happened when one of the men gave a homeless person $10.00. The second person asked for help and received a toonie.

Lesson 1 - the people with the least seemed the most willing to share what they had

Lesson 2 - giving to the poor keeps the assets in circulation and eventually helps the economy.

Or maybe the people making the video happened to selectively choose the subjects they filmed very carefully. Or maybe they filmed a number of scenarios - and edited the piece together selectively. Or maybe the whole video was staged from the get-go. Many possibilities here.
 
I'd like to see less need for charity and more demand for justice ... I would rather be the receiver of justice than charity ... I think it should be a universal law (punishable by being subjected to charity?) that you are not allowed to ignore injustice ...
screen-shot-2012-11-08-at-6-25-46-am.png

Of course there should be the justice of which you speak. Let's keep people fed - housed - and clothed in the meantime though ;)
 
A guaranteed minimum income would be justice, not charity.

And no, Jae, I don't think anyone wants to be homeless (and it was a really fricking cold night up here last night), but some people find it much harder than others to fit into the system, and/or to succeed at it.
 
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