Ebola Outbreak

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UnDefinitive said:
@chansen ... Go away? Seriously? If you are at all interested in this topic aside from dismissing my posts ... perhaps you could direct me to more reliable sources? Or maybe you know the answers to the questions that were posed ... let's just say it is me asking the questions ... out of respect for me as a member of this forum would you consider giving answers ... or are you really not interested in this thread at all and just like to make dismissive comments because you are not willing to look for information outside of your 'comfort zone'. I only listed the sources to bait you into responding as I knew you would ... If this is a non-issue for you ... you could leave it alone rather than negating my efforts to find out what I can about it ... when it was first posted I had no real interest in it either ... then I realized that it ties into all of the other chaos being flouted by the mainstream media ... Release and Retract Beheading of US citizen - Blamed on ISIS, Downed Plane - Blamed on Russians, Israel/Gaza blamed on Hamas, Ebola - Blame Africa, Ferguson Riots - Blame the US citizens ... Open Borders-Blame Drug Wars ... It all leads to WAR on somebody ... and when those somebodies are American Citizens ... WHO BENEFITS FROM AN EBOLA OUTBREAK in the USA? This is a key question to ask, and the answers are obvious: the CDC, vaccine manufacturers and pharma companies, and anyone in government who wants to declare a police state and start rounding people up for quarantine in a medical emergency?
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Hi Undef,

I have to agree with chansen that those sources are not reliable - they are sensationalist tabloid channels (Fox, Infowars).

I don't believe they want this to spread and they are trying to prevent it. Viruses do not discriminate between rich and poor and rich people need medical staff too and don't want to have to wear hazard suits - cramps their style. So, given that cities have wide income ranges and places where rich and poor mix it doesn't make sense that there is any conspiracy to spread it for 'population control'. That's over the top. Ebola has existed for awhile. It's not brand new. It's just that this time it has hit more populated areas, there are superstitious people who don't trust the staff in hazard suits - they have customary rituals that are not being respected because the need to stem the spread is too serious, and there is poor infrastructure in place to begin with to deal with the choas it's causing now - that's my take on it.
 
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Check out IRC and Doctors Without Borders for their take. They worked in those countries before the outbreak. Get a cultural perspective on it (rather than news angle)- I think it's spreading more than anticipated partly because the locals are confused and distraught and spreading rumors. They are grieving and their rituals are not being allowed. I think that's partly why. Unfortunately they can't abide their burial rituals because it's too dangerous.

I do wonder about the tobacco company involvement. But if plants are indeed being used for cures not illness that's a good thing.
 
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Each to his own ...

I do not dismiss information from any source if it is researched and founded on logic or already proven true.

I will take the word of an Alternative News Report over a Mainstream Media Report any day. Info Wars reported on the illegal border crossing long before mainstream media was even allowed to speak of it. Info Wars had reporters in Ferguson before anyone else did.

I have watched mainstream media and sometimes still do ... just as an indicator of what is not true ... if they say there is no threat from Ebola then I know to start digging elsewhere ... that is me ... not everyone wants to dig deeper ... fair enough ... live long and prosper is my wish for us all but I do believe I am convinced that the 'powers that be' do not share that sentiment ... population control & martial law do not seem over the top to 'them' ... it may not be Ebola that is the trigger but there will be a trigger ... I will continue searching and researching ... hoping that I am wrong but not optimistic that I am.
 
There does not have to be any kind of trigger - a change of imagination about humanity's future is what's needed. I believe that's what needs to spread. I look at all the bad things that have already happened in the world - I am not looking for more of them to happen - but seeds of hope that the past can be healed. We need to understand where we've been to know where we're headed and how we can make positive changes. I am not hoping for any any angry political movement of any kind. We've got enough of that going on in the world and it makes things worse. I think the change, if there is to be one will have to be a change of the collective imagination. Less fighting more dreaming.
 
Why do you want to find 'the trigger' Undef? Why is that your mission?

As for me...I am fully aware the world is in bad shape, that we are kept in the dark about a lot - but I keep looking for signs of hope and am wishing for cooperation to change it.
 
Cooperation and transformation needed - the world is in miserable shape let's heal it.

There isn't one 'trigger', Undef, it's a collective web we're all a part of whereby the problems we weave over years and years are becoming heavier than the solutions. That's what needs to change. Fox and info wars weave plenty of problems - look at Glen Beck and the vitriolic garbage he spread - it had a negative impact. We need to look at why and how things happened in the past and a hopeful imagination about the future. Not more tea party raging.
 
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UnDefinitive said:
Each to his own ...

I do not dismiss information from any source if it is researched and founded on logic or already proven true.

I will take the word of an Alternative News Report over a Mainstream Media Report any day. Info Wars reported on the illegal border crossing long before mainstream media was even allowed to speak of it. Info Wars had reporters in Ferguson before anyone else did.

I have watched mainstream media and sometimes still do ... just as an indicator of what is not true ... if they say there is no threat from Ebola then I know to start digging elsewhere ... that is me ... not everyone wants to dig deeper ... fair enough ... live long and prosper is my wish for us all but I do believe I am convinced that the 'powers that be' do not share that sentiment ... population control & martial law do not seem over the top to 'them' ... it may not be Ebola that is the trigger but there will be a trigger ... I will continue searching and researching ... hoping that I am wrong but not optimistic that I am.
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I don't think that there's no risk that it could spread but I don't think approaching it with much alarm helps when it's an active pandemic - already in those countries people are avoiding quaruntine when it is necessary to save lives and prevent the spread. If it were to spread to outside of Africa and people did the same in other places - avoided screening and treatment- then that's when they'd feel the need to move into police state mode to contain it - which is maybe why Obama needed to sign an executive order (did he really?) - just in case because he's seen how it's being spread in Africa and want to avoid that in the US - so they will bring people in to be tested if they need to? That's also possible - and that there is no herd thinning conspiracy. Like i said, noone wants to get Ebola whether they are rich and powerful of poor and humble- the virus won't distinguish. So, since that has not happened, it has not spread to the US but is possible I don't think it's wise to get people over thinking it and panicking if the first case shows up. That could create a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy among people in poorer communities who fear it.
 
UnDefinitive said:
@chansen and @ChemGal EBOLA CRISIS ... I knew someone would comment on that (I thought it was pretty funny myself) ... still the Doctor in the soundtrack had some valid points about the inability for the US Hospitals to deal with an actual pandemic if the incurable Ebola virus actually does spread and mutate in North America. Temperature testing people that do not yet show symptoms is not preventative to spreading a virus that takes 30 hrs -2 weeks before an infected person shows symptoms ...

Also referenced on the sound track ....these are the questions proposed by Mike Adams ... I think they are valid questions ... although, it seems that ChemGal finds all of my posts very readily dismissed ... perhaps, others viewing this thread might be interested in looking towards Alternatives to Mainstream Information ... I for one am always skeptical of reports coming from Government Controlled Outputs and like to ask further questions ...

(shortened quote as it was so long I had few characters to respond, use to arrow to see the full post)
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There's a ton of stuff there, and right now I'm pretty exhausted so don't have the concentration to get through it all. Minus the few people who go on to do terrorist acts in any population, those working with Ebola want it contained. If it somehow spread outside of a hospital that was set up for really infectious diseases, it would be made public, and things would be done to prevent it's spread. It would also be studied to help prevent outbreaks of it, and other diseases in the future.

I don't see the issue with a mercury containing compound in vaccines. It isn't mercury, that's like saying water is hydrogen.

I doubt there were suspected US Ebola cases. Cases that were possible in both Canada and the US (but less probable than a suspected case) were made public and people were exaggerating those.

I've never heard of a good source say that Ebola isn't spread through the air, as it is via body fluids. It isn't an airborne virus. There's a difference, and masks are worn due to the risk of fluids. When someone vomits, convulses while bleeding, etc. those fluids fly around. People also touch their faces often without noticing, a mask can prevent some of that too.
The blog posted by Inannawhimsey covered this very well, IMO:
http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/ebola-virus-may-be-spread-by-droplets.html
 
@Kimmio .... passive resistance is what I am trying to implement not
Kimmio said:
approaching it with much alarm ... rich and powerful or poor and humble- the virus won't distinguish ... wise to get people over thinking it and panicking if the first case shows up. That could create a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy among people in poorer communities who fear it.
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I have to disagree that the virus will not distinguish between rich and powerful or poor and humble ... the rich and powerful are just that ... rich and powerful enough to 'distinguish themselves out of harm's way' ...
self-fulfilling prophecy ... to me means rich and powerful fulfilling prophecy ... and if we do not educate ourselves as to what is going on and start resisting ... they will have there way with us ... the only way to turn it around is to expose them and refuse to blindly be subservient ... I have no wish to disrupt the peace of the people here on Wondercafe 2 but I was invited by geofee to participate and have found it to be an invaluable learning experience ... with every post I research I find more links to just how corrupt the powers that be are ... I do the research in hopes of a resistance movement ... not for myself ... I could probably coast along with my eyes closed for another 5 years or so and be none the worse for it ... however ... do I want to leave it up to my grandson to discover these things out for himself or do I try to prevent him from ever having to deal with it ... the time is now ... we all have to do what we can ... for starters, I am just trying to wake up people as fast as I can ... I don't put this on my daughter (who you remind me of Kimmio) or my grandson or my 84 year old parents ... to them it is still unthinkable ... I put it on myself and others that are already awake ... like George who demonstrates what he said in another thread

  • Hope is justifiable in a way that optimism is not. To hope is an expression of commitment to the possibility of the future.

  • Disaster is high and rising in the field of probability. Seeing this plainly we are left with no option for avoidance of opportunity. It is either sink or swim if we are to survive the next decade.

  • Before anything else we are faced with a necessary change of imagination. This is the most difficult condition for hope. Once obtained, a changed imagination will generate a changed priority. What mattered much then will be valued little now. What mattered little will be valued much.

  • Isaiah notes the problem of our day. Rather than resistance to dominant ideology we have wide-spread accommodation and general conformity.

  • How many times have I not sat in quiet conversation with some soul addicted to crack cocaine. Who can fathom reluctance when plainly the habit will bring increasing dissolution and quick death? The addict clings to the drug as many in high places cling to power.

So I am back to ...
Passive resistance as a method of nonviolent protest against laws or policies in order to force a change or secure concessions; it is also known as nonviolent resistance and is the main tactic of civil disobedience. Passive resistance typically involves such activities as mass demonstrations, refusal to obey or carry out a law or to pay taxes, the occupation of buildings or the blockade of roads, labor strikes, economic boycotts, and similar activities.

Possibly originating with the Quakers, it was adopted by Africans, Indians, and U.S. civil-rights and anti–Vietnam War protesters. Among its most articulate advocates have been Gandhi, who maintained that action needs to be accompanied by love and a willingness to search for the truth, and Martin Luther King, Jr., who called for "tough-mindedness and tenderheartedness."

Another good activist for change is Naomi Wolfe ... go to her facebook page and browse around ... she remains hopeful but is tough-minded enough to deal with the truth of what is really going on ... while still remaining very tenderhearted like yourself.
 
I am awake to the fact the world's in a mess but the only way things will change in any lasting way is if the ethos and imagination changes - including that of those in power - to something peaceful and hopeful. They need to believe it is in their best interest to be part of the solution for the sake of their kids and grandkids - to recognize their own humanity. I believe some are starting to see it. You can protest - I am more interested in changing conversations- there are other ways to express yourself too, and other more passive ways to change the cultural ethos over time - through art, dialogue, civic engagement, media - minds change subtlety too, on a subconscious level through culture - not just by taking to the streets, shouting with protest signs, IMO.

If you're protesting things you pick up from Fox news, Fox is about the worst source for news anyway - it's sensational and made to appeal to (and manipulate) people with less than 6th Grade level education (I am not putting down the less educated, I am critical of Fox's tactics) . You won't be taken seriously. I'm saying so in a friendly way...but they are sensationalist and emotion provoking on purpose and they don't care how much is true. I don't trust them as far as I can shot-put my TV. Try the Independent, Mother Jones, and here in Canada Rabble.ca for non-MSM. And TED talks.
 
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Kimmio said:
- not just by taking to the streets, shouting with protest signs, IMO.
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Please stop suggesting that I am trying to start riots ... or suggesting that I believe everything I read ... if it comes from FOX and it is credible then it is credible ... if it comes from Mother Jones Rabble non-MSM or TED talks ... same thing ... Naomi Wolf is no provocateur ... She is neither gullible, uneducated, prone to sensationalism or emotion provoking on purpose and always insists on truth verification. She is trustworthy but you might still want to shot-put your TV at her because you simply do not want to hear the truths she will tell ...Mainstream Media blocks her consistently because they also do not want you to hear the truths she will tell ... sorry Kimmio , changing the conversation is just avoiding the truth for me ... there are people out there that sincerely believe that the best thing in the world for them and their children and grandchildren is to extinguish or make subservient all of the rest of humanity not in their immediate circle. The history that has not been re-written by them is proof that it can happen and it will happen again unless the majority of human beings take a firm stand against it ... this does not have to involve shouting but it does have to involve non-compliance ... this is the last that I will post on this thread ... weed it and reap what you will ...each of us has our own rows to hoe. You are an asset to humanity and perhaps you have the better way ... like my daughter used to say when she was much younger ... instead of 'I don't know' she would say ..."I can't know ... I just can't know" ... she was right ... as most children are.

from Naomi Wolf's facebook page ... some insight on passive resistance on her terms (which I agree with)

Naomi Wolf
I am really worried about these "Days of Rage" protests. They are being 'branded' as 'revolutionary' and the coordination of many cities at once -- well, in my experience the left just is not that organized. I am worried that there will be multicity 'unrest' with lots of masked provocateurs and revolutionary language and this will 'justify' a multicity militarized police crackdown. I remind all democracy-loving citizens that the BEST approach there is, and this is based on research on decades of successful and unsuccessful assembly, is to SIT DOWN with NO MASKS, peacefully block traffic, give ZERO opportunity for what can be reported as 'clashes' -- link arms and sing. The LESS violent the MORE unmasked and transparent the MORE peaceful and the more singing the more successful. The goal is to AVOID violence and/or the pretext for violence, give ZERO room thus for provocateurs and create such a mellow calm SEATED mood that police overkill or provocation are obvious. PEACEFULLY BLOCKING TRAFFIC for hours and hours is much more effective than clashes and protects everyone including the Constitution. But it takes patience and discipline.
 
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I'm not suggesting you're trying to start riots. I know you're expressing your opinion. Sometimes you 'read' as though you're shouting. Maybe I do too. I'm not. Not even in my head. ;)

You come across differently sometimes than you intend to maybe. I can understand that. I like you. But you quote Fox News, and other sensational tea party representitive outlets - and they don't seem to me to be too concerned about how people respond to their programming because that fuels their fire - gets them another sensational story and more ratings. People like Glenn Beck (who's long gone from Fox now i think but he set a tone) , Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, darlings of the Tea Publicans. They stir up the angst but not much else. Other 'reporters' are more subtle but there is an undercurrent of Obama hate and lib-dem hate that colours everything. I feel like they thrive on hate. Obama may not be great but he didn't start all the current problems in the world - he walked into them and made many of them worse but he's no worse than the politicians Fox favours. Whenever I think of Fox News and infowars I think of the tea party NRA birthers - and I don't particularly think of them as bearing witness to the truth. I just don't.

Naomi Wolf is genuine.
 
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@UnDefinitive,

remember, Kimmio is writing aboot her own comfort level here, which neither you nor anyone else here is responsible for -- its all aboot the feels

just think of her doing a jazz riff if it helps :3

goodonya for pointing out that it is actual facts that matter and not where those facts come from, whether the facts come from FOX news or CNN or the two wings of the exact same movement, the OWS/Tea Party movement
 
Another sick American doctor, this time likely exposed the same way many other health care workers are - working with patient you don't realize has Ebola:
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...otective-gear-100-degree-heat-says-colleague/

It's also been confirmed that there are 2 separate outbreaks:
The DRC outbreak, first reported to WHO on 26 August, has so far sickened 53 people and killed 31, according to WHO. Early test results suggested the two outbreaks were caused by two different species of Ebola. (There are five species of Ebola virus, three of which cause outbreaks in humans: Zaire, Sudan, and Bundibugyo.) But the DRC outbreak, like the one in West Africa, turned out to be Zaire, Leroy wrote to ScienceInsider in an e-mail over the weekend.

Now, a sequence of 346 base pairs of one of the virus's genes has shown that the two outbreaks aren't directly related. The fragment has seven mutations compared with genomes from the current outbreak in Guinea, but only four mutations compared with the strain that caused the first known Ebola outbreak in 1976, also in the DRC, which was then named Zaire. It is even more closely related—by just three mutations—to the strain that caused an outbreak in the DRC city of Kikwit in 1995. Leroy says he hopes to have a full genome sequence of the new DRC strain by the end of this week.
http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2...la-unrelated-escalating-west-african-epidemic

With the current situation in West Africa, I think more countries will be having cases in the upcoming months, unless something drastically changes.
 
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