Do Americans and Canadians Have Different Ideas on Racism?

[Seeler]

Many of us New Canadians have switched their tribe, changed allegiances, as it were, and, as a consequence, have become less tribal, ethnocentric or racist.

I had to swear allegiance to the English Queen when I became a Canadian citizen. But I swear I didn't mean it! I was coerced!

Hermann, are you sure you swore allegiance to the English Queen? Unless my memory fails me, Queen Elizabeth II was crowned Queen of Canada.

 

[ChemGal]

Perhaps the whole western world is racist, but so IMO is the rest of the world. I didn't realize this until I was an adult; I guess I thought racism was a WASP trait. Then in college I overheard some Chinese students making disparaging remarks about the Japanese --they were 'loud', 'uncouth', 'ignorant', 'boastful', Americanized. I read Samuel Hearn's journals about the Northern Cree slaughtering the Inuit at Bloody Falls in the NWT. And I watched the horror on the face of a Chinese woman I worked with - she had asked if anyone knew anyone who would provide daycare for her baby - someone in the lunch room said a neighbour took in children. The Chinese woman was interested - that is until the other woman remarked "You will have a lot in common. She is Japanese." Never, never would this Chinese woman entrust her child to a Japanese care-giver. And my son tells me that in Korea it is easy to find a Korean woman to date - but seldom will they take you home to meet their families and Korean/Western marriage is rare. (He does know a few, and we know Jae has a Korean wife but I think he met her in Canada.)

Racism is something we all have to guard against - not just Westerners.

In some places it has become a bit of a cultural norm, and it would be looked down upon to speak out against it.
Imagine if the government of North Korea crumbled tomorrow. I think after the propoganda and lack of information about others, as well as hardship, it would be a very racist place for quite some time.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Perhaps the whole western world is racist, but so IMO is the rest of the world. I didn't realize this until I was an adult; I guess I thought racism was a WASP trait. Then in college I overheard some Chinese students making disparaging remarks about the Japanese --they were 'loud', 'uncouth', 'ignorant', 'boastful', Americanized. I read Samuel Hearn's journals about the Northern Cree slaughtering the Inuit at Bloody Falls in the NWT. And I watched the horror on the face of a Chinese woman I worked with - she had asked if anyone knew anyone who would provide daycare for her baby - someone in the lunch room said a neighbour took in children. The Chinese woman was interested - that is until the other woman remarked "You will have a lot in common. She is Japanese." Never, never would this Chinese woman entrust her child to a Japanese care-giver. And my son tells me that in Korea it is easy to find a Korean woman to date - but seldom will they take you home to meet their families and Korean/Western marriage is rare. (He does know a few, and we know Jae has a Korean wife but I think he met her in Canada.)

Racism is something we all have to guard against - not just Westerners.

That is true. But in the west I think we have to think about how it manifests itself here. I hesitantly say this for fear of backlash, but the group that has been cast and made disadvantaged throughout history and still suffers disadvantage is not being racist by pointing it out in efforts to gain equality - whatever the identifiable group, wherever that is happening. So, here it is not racist for an ethnic minority to call attention to WASP or colonial white European priveledge being the norm, it is not racist for First Nations to have misgivings about white people - for example - things have not been equal and still are not. In another part of the world it is not racist for another minority to have misgivings about the historically oppressive power, particularily if it still systemically oppresses. Only if the shoe were on the other foot would it be racism because racism is always measured in relation to the historically "ruling power" and norms attributed to that power. It's just human to want equality.

 

[ChemGal]

That is true. But in the west I think we have to think about how it manifests itself here. I hesitantly say this for fear of backlash, but the group that has been cast and made disadvantaged throughout history and still suffers disadvantage is not being racist by pointing it out in efforts to gain equality - whatever the identifiable group, wherever that is happening. So, here it is not racist for an ethnic minority to call attention to WASP or colonial white European priveledge being the norm, it is not racist for First Nations to have misgivings about white people - for example - things have not been equal and still are not. In another part of the world it is not racist for another minority to have misgivings about the historically oppressive power, particularily if it still systemically oppresses. Only if the shoe were on the other foot would it be racism because racism is always measured in relation to the hhistorically "ruling power". It's just human to want equality.

I've seen it manifest in the West due to what Seeler has pointed out. There are people who immigrate here who think their race is the best, or at least think there are races below them.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

But the point is, is they do not hold the power here, and there's is just a reaction to that. So, we have to look at it in that light. And maybe no racial identities norms should hold the power.

 

[ChemGal]

But the point is, is they do not hold the power here, and there's is just a reaction to that. So, we have to look at it in that light. And maybe no racial identities norms should hold the power.

Does it really matter whether or not the hold the power here, when they did in their former country and are holding the same attitudes? It's still an issue here, and creates violence at times.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

People are not supposed to be discriminated against due to racial or ethnic identity and in daily life when people come here and are looked down on or denied a livelihood the consequence is to want to preserve that identity.

 

[ChemGal]

People are not supposed to be discriminated against due to racial or ethnic identity and in daily life when people come here and are looked down on or denied a livelihood the consequence is to want to preserve that identity.

I think when some of the part of the identity is racism, that aspect should be looked down upon.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Violence is never right but I am just saying why I think racial minority groups at times feel angry at colonial priveledge.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I think when some of the part of the identity is racism, that aspect should be looked down upon.

Can you be more specific? An example?

 

[ChemGal]

Violence is never right but I am just saying why I think racial minority groups at times feel angry at colonial priveledge.

That's not what I am taking about, nor is Seeler.

I know of cultural groups that have ranks of races, as to which are better. Privilege helps form which ones are considered top, but to them it isn't about privilege when explained.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

That's not what I am taking about, nor is Seeler.

I know of cultural groups that have ranks of races, as to which are better. Privilege helps form which ones are considered top, but to them it isn't about privilege when explained.

Who? What's it about?

 

[ChemGal]

Can you be more specific? An example?

When someone from India won't listen to or report to someone who is above them at work, because that person is black. I have seen physical fights break out (not in a work situation) because of similar situations.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I think there has to be a set of norms and laws we can agree on that doesn't take away inalienable human rights from anyone else - we have that in theory but not always in practice.

 

[ChemGal]

Who? What's it about?

I'm not comfortable about stating who, as I could very easily misapply it to a wider group of people or misname a cultural group within a country. To them, it's purely about race and being inherently better. The white race is closer to the top, not because of the privilege, but just because this group of people believe them to be superior to the races below the ranked list. I do think privileges have affected that thinking over time, but to them it's not a conscious part of why they are better.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

When someone from India won't listen to or report to someone who is above them at work, because that person is black. I have seen physical fights break out (not in a work situation) because of similar situations.

That's racism. I agree. And that's a matter of education and values that are entrenched. Probably takes more than kindly explaining it just once. And their children will then hopefully not have those same ideas.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Or, you see it here when two different ethnic minorities whose countries of origin have been or are at war coming here and still hating each other - bringing it with them. That's wrong too. But I think that's been happening since North America was first settled - the different ethnic ghettos, etc. Gangs of NY - the movie - comes to mind. There's a period of struggling for recognition and then things settle down and integrate and mix over generations.

 

[ChemGal]

Or, you see it here when two different ethnic minorities whose countries of origin have been or are at war coming here and still hating each other - bringing it with them. That's wrong too.

Seeler's example explained that I think. It's not always racism, as the hate isn't about a particular race, but rather a negative aspect of nationalism.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

It has been happening throughout human history for that matter ... and older cultures that have never had integration like Canada that is a relatively new country are still learning and still "tribal". In places throughout Europe - very nationalistic, I agree - and racist and religionist. And we brought that here with us and eventually it settled down but the concept is unfamiliar to people who've never been exposed to other cultures before coming here. I think that's it.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Well it settled down in that we have a rational legal process and human rights - but the groups here who were historically oppressed here are still wanting equality.