Covid 19 Vaccine

[ChemGal]

I think people are presuming that there wouldn't be public health engaged in the vaccine.

When I went to get tested for COVID, public health was doing everything from registry to testing.

Picture the vaccine:
It has to come in, it has to be distributed, it has to have people being advised that they can get it, it has to have controls at the vaccination site. Actually, the vaccination sites need to be setup. People who are working need support. At some point, someone needs to get the shot. Much of that other work can be done by the logistics / distribution of the armed forces. The actual shot is a very small part of the vaccination process.

There are also nurses in the military. There are paramedics in the miltary. There are doctors in the military --- including all the reserve units.

Might make sense for people to educate themselves on what our army resources look like, and what our reservists look like, as well as what is required, prior to being critical of the concept.

Yes, I haven't actually heard if the military themselves will be doing the administration, but I have no issues if they are being trained to do so. I am certain each location will have a health professional - military or otherwise - to monitor for reactions for 15 or 30 minutes or whatever they pick. It's the atypical medical histories that gives me a bit of pause. I think military may be a bit more by the book which for some is rather dangerous.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I think military may be a bit more by the book which for some is rather dangerous.

So military for gen pop, doctors for "odd ducks"?

 

[BetteTheRed]

In that you generally know.

 

[Luce NDs]

It appears to my memory that the military necessarily has a medical corp for some odd logic ... entering the logistics! Given the injuries encountered in conflict ... this is a significant factor of this force ... even if power is dangerously destructive as a paradox to sustaining a medical corp ... irrationality?

Perhaps the consequence of war making ... like joining men and women together as one ... when a dark power in the beginning conceived of such evil outlets ... with Innismere! MOG?

Question is ... when did this separation begin to create difficulties? Tis a hard solution indeed ... if you can find that place ... if you do give it room ... otherwise in may cause some insanity regarding connections and related affairs! The relationship is wanted and loathed ... all concurrently ... thus need for ferrymen ... we have to get over IT!

Relativity I mean ... with dashes right on the spot ... incarnate streaks? They were there and then they weren't ... so the story goes as to the coming and goings ...

Some even believe the doctrine is god ... all by IT's elf ... but sometimes it doesn't add up well as integrated! Leaves me with a sense of distant autonomous parts ... power isolated from clues! It can be dangerous ...

 

[Luce NDs]

The there was General Allah ... a delicate side street on the west side of the go round ... outside forces looking on ... were broken up allowing distant laughter that caused the powers angst. Inattention then cause folk up in heaven with alteration to what was scripted as if carved & stoned!
Gonn a wanda land then split and part went off ...

Well-rounded sphere of the story as topically mysterious! Glo' BUSS?

 

[Ritafee]

.

wonder if the priority should be those who are NOT practicing good covid social distancing.

I doubt if they want it. Priority should be those who WANT it ... you want it ... you should have priority.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I would like my daughter and her excessively large bubble (due to both her job, and her best friend's two jobs, complicated relationships and excessive number of children, in two different schools) all to be vaccinated.

 

[Ritafee]

I would like for no body to be vaccinated ... but if your daughter and large bubble are consenting adults then I would not try to stop them ... their children on the other hand ... I pray that that they will not be experimented on with yet another vaccine anytime soon. They have been assaulted in far too many ways already.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Well, these are four healthy children, let me tell you, heart and soul of junior church and youth group. Frequent readers and stars in productions. 5 year old A is always adding impromptu little dances to any event where she gets to be at the front of the sanctuary. The oldest, M, is 15, and I think she would be allowed to make up her own mind about a vaccine.

But I don't even know where kids would be on any list of priorities. They seem to get it, and get over it easily. I think they will focus on seniors, long term care workers, health care workers, other front line staff, including teachers and EAs. It's really the seniors we'd like to stop dying.

 

[ChemGal]

What's the phase 1 for your province?
Here it is:

• continuing care facility residents and staff,
• seniors aged 75 and older
• First Nations residents 65 and older
• health care workers who may transmit COVID-19 to the most vulnerable

There are plans to be 3 phases, 2nd phase will be 'at risk' individuals, phase 3 everyone, criteria not laid out for phase 2.

 

[Ritafee]

And what choice do they have to say NO?

 

[BetteTheRed]

From the CTV reporting of the Minister of Health's news conference:

"She said that Ontario will make the first vaccines available to frontline health-care workers and people in long-term care homes.

The government will then be open to suggestions from the bioethicist about who receives the vaccine next.

Last week, the province announced that retired Gen. Rick Hillier will lead Ontario’s COVID-19 vaccine distribution task force."

 

[BetteTheRed]

And what choice do they have to say NO?

I would suspect that, with the exception of employees in health care and long term care, every choice (certain vaccines are very commonly a condition of employment in health care). I had to give permission every year for my mother to get a flu shot (I was her POA for personal care, but I would always ask her, and she'd say "yes, I always get my flu shot"; she was of the generation who thought doctors were demi-gods...)

 

[Ritafee]

And my own mother always said no to a flu shot. Now imagine her alone and with no family to advocate for her. Unable to move other than her head and one arm. There were times that my mother was kept unconscious for days at a time due to the experimentation with contraindicative methods of pain control. Were she not being monitored by her own family as well these experiments left unchecked would likely have resulted in her death much sooner ... we can't really know that ... however removing some of the drugs at 'my sister's insistence' did result in her being fully conscious for most of her days going forward ... with exception to the times that she and her advocates requested additional pain relief measures that would allow her to rest without pain. This is not to say that anyone was deliberately keeping her in a state of unconsciousness ... but just that if she had no one to intervene outside of the 'systematic' protocols ... I have no doubt that she might have been convinced to have a vaccine against her own better judgement. One can only resist so much when in such a vulnerable to 'authority' state of being with no allowance for outside advocacy.

My mother and your mother ... both having unlimited access to advocacy on their behalf ... not the same as LTC clients in these days of Carona locked down to their deaths ... surrounded by untouchable hazmat suited 'care' givers.

 

[BetteTheRed]

both having unlimited access to advocacy on their behalf ... not the same as LTC clients in these days of Carona locked down to their deaths ... surrounded by untouchable hazmat suited 'care' givers.

See, that's not true. I was often denied access to my Mom because of flu lockdowns (and this was pre-Zoom; I sent daily e-mails to my Mom's care team, which they printed out and read to her). They were often 3-4 weeks at a time. Trying to prevent seniors dying of the flu.

 

[Ritafee]

See, that's not true. I was often denied access to my Mom because of flu lockdowns

We were never denied access to my Mom in the 18 months that she was hospitalized. When she was in Steinbach for a few weeks ... there were some areas of the hospital that required masks and gowning due to a 'flu' type concern ... but not rigid lockdowns for months on end. Are you saying that your Mom would have had to die alone during one of those flu lockdowns that you keep bringing up as 'normal'.?

 

[Ritafee]

As details on the latest COVID vaccine contenders flood the news cycle on a daily basis, reports of concerns regarding the safety and efficacy of the vaccine are widespread among many demographics, even including the professional medical community.

 

[BetteTheRed]

We were never denied access to my Mom in the 18 months that she was hospitalized. When she was in Steinbach for a few weeks ... there were some areas of the hospital that required masks and gowning due to a 'flu' type concern ... but not rigid lockdowns for months on end. Are you saying that your Mom would have had to die alone during one of those flu lockdowns that you keep bringing up as 'normal'.?

Don't know. Had 24-7 access to Mom in the home's hospice room as she slipped away. There were often 2-3 week "lockdowns" in the 30 months she was in LTC in 2 homes.

 

[Waterfall]

What's the phase 1 for your province?
Here it is:

• continuing care facility residents and staff,
• seniors aged 75 and older
• First Nations residents 65 and older
• health care workers who may transmit COVID-19 to the most vulnerable

There are plans to be 3 phases, 2nd phase will be 'at risk' individuals, phase 3 everyone, criteria not laid out for phase 2.

I could see the staff getting the vaccine if they're healthy because this is the type of group the vaccine was minimally tested on.......but seniors over 75 who require a nursing home are going to have all sorts of problems like heart disease, diabetes, COPD, dementia, etc..... From what I understand, this type of group was not part of the studies for approval.
Also, will they give the vaccine to people with Covid (symptomatic or asymptomatic), as in testing them first before they give vaccine?
Will they educate people on what adverse effects to watch out for before sending them home after the vaccine?

 

[ChemGal]

I could see the staff getting the vaccine if they're healthy because this is the type of group the vaccine was minimally tested on.......but seniors over 75 who require a nursing home are going to have all sorts of problems like heart disease, diabetes, COPD, dementia, etc..... From what I understand, this type of group was not part of the studies for approval.
Also, will they give the vaccine to people with Covid (symptomatic or asymptomatic), as in testing them first before they give vaccine?
Will they educate people on what adverse effects to watch out for before sending them home after the vaccine?

I don't think all the logistics have been figured out yet, especially considering the lack of Health Canada approval.
I don't know if people with COVID will even be able to be vaccinated due to isolation requirements, although long term care they do still need to be cared for, so in-patient facilities in general could do so a little easier.
For your last question I would be surprised if they didn't, I know for other vaccines I was (although not really helpful for my situations).