Covid 19 Vaccine

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ChemGal

One with keen eye
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Bugs me quite a bit that more info about breakthrough infections isn't being shared. Who are these people? Are they elderly/ institutionalized/ medically fragile? How sick are they?

A few general statements have been made but I feel.pretty much in the dark. Here in ON the percentage of daily test positive cases in the fully vaccinated is rising.
That info is shared here. Where they are contracting it isn't.
 

ChemGal

One with keen eye
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Ooh this looks better copied than I thought it would. @paradox3
They are not recommending testing for those without symptoms, so people who could potentially be spreading it but aren't symptomatic are even less represented than before.

Table 4. COVID-19 cases in the past 120 days in Alberta by vaccine status and pre-existing condition

CompletePartialUnvaccinated
with conditionno conditionwith conditionno conditionwith conditionno condition
Age groupTotaln%n%n%n%n%n%
Under 12 years14,83400001,48510.0%13,34990.0%
12-29 years24,2297893.3%2,84611.7%5342.2%2,2029.1%3,57614.8%14,28258.9%
30-39 years16,9719515.6%3,18718.8%4102.4%1,4488.5%2,41614.2%8,55950.4%
40-49 years12,4341,0718.6%2,86223.0%3342.7%8606.9%1,89915.3%5,40843.5%
50-59 years8,0691,13714.1%1,53619.0%2663.3%4205.2%1,64620.4%3,06438.0%
60-69 years5,4621,27823.4%1,06719.5%1873.4%1322.4%1,39125.5%1,40725.8%
70-79 years2,7801,17442.2%34512.4%782.8%281.0%76627.6%38914.0%
80+ years2,1901,38163.1%1657.5%683.1%70.3%44820.5%1215.5%
Unknown1210108.3%054.1%010687.6%
Note:
Vaccine status category is based on protection as Table 3. Pre-existing conditions include respiratory diseases, diabetes, stroke, dementia, cardiovascular disease, liver diseases, renal diseases, cancer and immuno-deficiency diseases.
 

Waterfall

Well-Known Member
Bugs me quite a bit that more info about breakthrough infections isn't being shared. Who are these people? Are they elderly/ institutionalized/ medically fragile? How sick are they?

A few general statements have been made but I feel pretty much in the dark. Here in ON the percentage of fully vaccinated daily cases is rising.
I also wonder how many vaccinated people already had a mild case of Covid (thus producing antibodies from exposure), prior to getting the vaccine. Would they then continue to show positive for Covid? For how long? No one was tested for Covid before getting the vaccine, just asked for symptoms.
Are vaccines necessary for those with Covid antibodies? If not, how long do those antibodies last?
 

Waterfall

Well-Known Member
Ooh this looks better copied than I thought it would. @paradox3
They are not recommending testing for those without symptoms, so people who could potentially be spreading it but aren't symptomatic are even less represented than before.

Table 4. COVID-19 cases in the past 120 days in Alberta by vaccine status and pre-existing condition

CompletePartialUnvaccinated
with conditionno conditionwith conditionno conditionwith conditionno condition
Age groupTotaln%n%n%n%n%n%
Under 12 years14,83400001,48510.0%13,34990.0%
12-29 years24,2297893.3%2,84611.7%5342.2%2,2029.1%3,57614.8%14,28258.9%
30-39 years16,9719515.6%3,18718.8%4102.4%1,4488.5%2,41614.2%8,55950.4%
40-49 years12,4341,0718.6%2,86223.0%3342.7%8606.9%1,89915.3%5,40843.5%
50-59 years8,0691,13714.1%1,53619.0%2663.3%4205.2%1,64620.4%3,06438.0%
60-69 years5,4621,27823.4%1,06719.5%1873.4%1322.4%1,39125.5%1,40725.8%
70-79 years2,7801,17442.2%34512.4%782.8%281.0%76627.6%38914.0%
80+ years2,1901,38163.1%1657.5%683.1%70.3%44820.5%1215.5%
Unknown1210108.3%054.1%010687.6%
Note:
Vaccine status category is based on protection as Table 3. Pre-existing conditions include respiratory diseases, diabetes, stroke, dementia, cardiovascular disease, liver diseases, renal diseases, cancer and immuno-deficiency diseases.
So those with antibodies still have an active Covid that can be transferred?
Isn't it the function of a vaccine to produce those antibodies? Is it just the coronavirus that doesn't respond to building antibodies through vaccines that would stop the spreading, as a polio or measles vaccine, or small pox vaccine does? (different viruses?)
 

ChemGal

One with keen eye
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I also wonder how many vaccinated people already had a mild case of Covid (thus producing antibodies from exposure), prior to getting the vaccine. Would they then continue to show positive for Covid? For how long? No one was tested for Covid before getting the vaccine, just asked for symptoms.
Are vaccines necessary for those with Covid antibodies? If not, how long do those antibodies last?
Some of that has been studied.
Initially COVID infection & 1 vaccine dose showed more antibodies than 2 vaccine doses only. I don't recall seeing anything about whether or not antibodies dropped off faster between those 2 groups.
There's been a few papers out regarding infection only antibodies and how long they last although that has varied over time and it also depends on who gets included for example only people who were hospitalized vs. those who were only had minor symptoms.
 

ChemGal

One with keen eye
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So those with antibodies still have an active Covid that can be transferred?
Isn't it the function of a vaccine to produce those antibodies? Is it just the coronavirus that doesn't respond to building antibodies through vaccines that would stop the spreading, as a polio or measles vaccine, or small pox vaccine does? (different viruses?)
Most likely, although we don't know if these people just didn't mount much of an immune response so don't have many antibodies. This data doesn't show if vaccinated people are transmitting the virus to others, other I would say that's also likely and earlier there was a study discussed about viral loads in people who were vaccinated.

Yes, the point of vaccines is to get the adaptive immune system to recognize the virus and antibodies are a big part of that. People who are vaccinated are contracting COVID and lower rates and of those who do contract it, the rates of hospitalizations, ICU admissions and deaths are all lower. Also, the major strain going around in Alberta is the delta variant, so that affects things too, although the vaccine is still effective against it but it spreads better than the initial virus, both in the vaccinated and in the unvaccinated.
Having antibodies doesn't always stop an infection from beginning. I do recall seeing something too that it's common for respiratory illnesses to not be prevented as well from vaccinations compared to other types of infections.

I think the big message that public health groups need to send out is the vaccine is very beneficial when it comes to preventing serious illness, especially for people with healthy immune systems. It also lowers the risk of infection, but vaccinated people still do get COVID, and it's not rare (currently in Alberta there are about 3000 vaccinated people who have it). *We don't know how well vaccinated people transmit the virus. Vaccinated people need to take care about the possibility of transmitting it to those who are vulnerable.

*There's certainly more information out there, I don't think there's a good conclusive statement on that yet. I would like to see a study about positive vaccinated people and rates of transmission in households, daycares etc. and looks to see how many ended up contracting it If there is good information where public health groups could alter that statement I think that really needs to be said and more publicized.
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
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Ontario extended the date for healthcare workers, too. The problem, I think, is that we can't actually afford to fire that many. LHSC here got lucking in that 99% did get vaccinated in time so only 84 have ended up being fired over it. But I can see where losing four or five percent of your health workers could be catastrophic in some areas, esp. since our system was already pretty stretched even pre-pandemic.
 

ChemGal

One with keen eye
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Ontario extended the date for healthcare workers, too. The problem, I think, is that we can't actually afford to fire that many. LHSC here got lucking in that 99% did get vaccinated in time so only 84 have ended up being fired over it. But I can see where losing four or five percent of your health workers could be catastrophic in some areas, esp. since our system was already pretty stretched even pre-pandemic.
Maybe healthcare needs to do some screening during the hiring process. 'If there is a pandemic, will you get vaccinated when a vaccine becomes available?'
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
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Maybe healthcare needs to do some screening during the hiring process. 'If there is a pandemic, will you get vaccinated when a vaccine becomes available?'
That's going forward. Doesn't help with the current situation.
 

paradox3

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Interesting. I was always one to get snitty over the pressure to take the flu shot when I worked in health care.

But my opinion was that it should be mandated by law if important. Like the annual TB test we had to get
 

Northwind

Still knitting. Walking the path to health.
Could have been done decades ago though. The pandemic has shown a lot of issues with planning for emergencies.

This wouldn't have worked decades ago. This pandemic is unprecedented and the average hire wouldn't have been willing to sign. I doubt I would have been convinced.
 

ChemGal

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This wouldn't have worked decades ago. This pandemic is unprecedented and the average hire wouldn't have been willing to sign. I doubt I would have been convinced.
Pandemics aren't unheard of though. Influenza is the one that is typically watched for, in 2099 I think the vast majority of healthcare workers should have been vaccinated for the flu as an example. Annually , I think those with direct patient contact should be getting flu vaccines too, as long as there isn't a good reason to avoid them.
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
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I actually think that an up-to-date vaccination schedule must be provided by all applicants to most nursing jobs?

And most winters, I get a flu shot. I smoked tobacco for many years, and was allergic to it, which always meant that I'd always get the flu (I worked in a College, ton of student contact) and would almost inevitably spend weeks with bronchitis, coughing and hacking and wheezing, and living for the next time I could use my inhaler. After a few winters of that, I bought into the flu shot, and haven't had worse than a bad cold since.
 

paradox3

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Why? Do you with they would have just mandated it instead?
For sure. The pressure was enormous with silly games and competitions between departments. Nurses were posted outside the cafeteria to jab us on our way to lunch, too.

Just mandate it if it is so important. Always the way I looked at it.
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
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Nurses were posted outside the cafeteria to jab us on our way to lunch, too.
Back when our parent owned a nursing company, we used to get a couple of the nurses down to do our flu shots. I never partook since I got mine when I took my son to get his, but it would have been funny to get it from people I knew fairly well (that company took up a lot of my time early in my time on the job).
 
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