COVID-19 and Skepticism with studies, orders, guidelines

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Speaking of trolls.
What is a troll ... and why when you do not get your own way do you go into that mode. I find your comments rather humorous so I am laughing ... should I just ignore them? What are the rules this time. This is a thread about skepticism around the corona virus response. That is what I am posting here. Skepticism not just from myself but from others. It is not another thread to demand compliance to your way of thinking.
 
Common sense dictates that you do not make every thing that was bad before worse ... how's it going in Australia?

number of coronavirus cases and deaths in Australia - Google Search


Search Results
Web results
www.health.gov.au › news › health-alerts › coronavirus...


Australia Coronavirus: 26,651 Cases and 810 Deaths



Um, better than Canada......... and yet we still have many that have a sense of individual entitlement rather than public health responsibility here in Oz too!


number of coronavirus cases and deaths in Canada - Google Search



Search Results
Web results

Canada Coronavirus: 136,141 Cases and 9,170 Deaths
 
you do not want Pontifex or myself to post ... anyone else?

All I mainly see is skepticism around sources, and a soupcon of amazement about "targets". Like the sorta goofy stereotyping, and over-long video of PG-13s.

Earth to PG-13. I am a very normal, middle-class, late middle-aged woman who has a little pension, a little house, a part-time job, a bbq and a little front porch. How am I such an enemy?
 
Staying apart ... the essence of anonymous SOL ... it is out there in numbers and makes for an enigma! Entertains those bored with eternal activities!

Then there are those that find themselves denying sibling attachments ... regardless of how brotherhoods and sisterhoods swear to look after their Christian (enlightened) circumstances of spatial affiliation!

Spatial: relating to or occupying space.

Do we have room for that domain of mindfulness? How does the zero tolerance concept fit in the scheme (conspiracy) of love in all things whereas emotional bursts tend to cause loss of cognizance ... a contributing conflict? Thus it goes in the arena of dark matter(s) above as another fluid item of curiosity! Waters above and below ... thus wells of mental depth! Rabid aule thingys ...

Aulë: The maker of Middle-earth. ... In Tolkien's pantheon of Middle-earth, Aulë is a knowledge deity, sometimes worshipped as a god by men, representing skill and craftsmanship, who is also thematically associated with Earth, stone, metal and the dwarves.

May revert to 'alleluyah if you feel deep thought is below yah ... demos collect this stuff rejected by tyranny as just too common!

Tis enough to make some folk bounce off walls ... demonstrating Rae Silly antes of po*etic nature ... and return of the foe Nicks ...
 
Swedes are supposedly culturally more open to VOLUNTARY citizenry cooperation with state requirements and thus the state did not make it mandatory.....so it's a mistake to believe that there were no "lock downs". Also Swedens prime minister, Stefen Lofven, advocated social distancing rules and not closing schools but limiting gatherings to 50. Social distancing and mask wearing became voluntary....which may or may not explain why their death and infection rate was higher than their neighbouring scandinavian countries like Norway, Denmark and Finland.....

So while Sweden embraced herd immunity and the UK relied on lockdowns....they both have the similar COVID fatality rates.
Sweden has the 9th highest COVID mortality rate in the world at 57.3 per 100,000
and England is 62.6 per 100,000.
The USA has a COVID related fatality rate of 3%, which is half of Swedens! I found that shocking.
Sweden made a mistake with herd immunity, the same as many countries including Canada, that we failed to protect the elderly population. Sweden eventually banned care home visits at the end of March.

After all this, Sweden claims to have 30% of their population that COULD be immune, with Sweden's Tegnell himself, acknowledging that's it's very difficult to estimate because levels of immunity differ between age groups.....

To achieve herd immunity, epidemiologists estimate COVID requires at least 70% of the population to be immune according to the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.
And let's not forget that we don't even know how long immunity lasts for COVID......recent studies are suggesting 4 to 6 months .....and not everyone will be immune at the same time.

So while Sweden may or may not be your poster child for COVID.......the video is terribly biased with it's reporting and feeds into what you want to do and not what you should do, and that is carefully look at all sides.
 
Do you not see a problem with your behavior here ... you do not want Pontifex or myself to post ... anyone else? Do you need a thread to yourself where only those who are in agreement with you are allowed to post.
Here's the thing for me Rita.....you post reams and reams of information without discussing most of it, video after video, etc......one at a time with some discussion is more preferred but that could just be my learning style.
 
Here's the thing for me Rita.....you post reams and reams of information without discussing most of it, video after video, etc......one at a time with some discussion is more preferred but that could just be my learning style.

Further, any attempts at discussion are met with judgement and condescension.
 
A fellow with spots on his face consults his doctor. The doctor says, “You have measles and I will have to cut off your leg.” He does so. In a month the poor fellow hops back in on his one leg. The doctor says, “See, the spots are gone. I cured you.” Many politicians are already performing a sick version of that.
 
Further, any attempts at discussion are met with judgement and condescension.
Rejecting “Coronapsychosis” Could Be Good for Our Health
Brian Giesbrecht
September 10, 2020
It will remain forever unknowable how Canada would have fared had our country not largely aped the “lockdown” model adopted by most of the advanced countries. But there is meaningful evidence for those who care and dare to look – and the implications aren’t pretty for our public health officials and their political acolytes.

That the death rate in one poor country after another has not been higher than in the rich lockdown countries – and, in many cases, has been far lower – suggests that adopting the lockdown model was not only unnecessary but was a mistake of huge proportions.

Perhaps the greatest public policy mistake to date of this century.


Why the leaders of the world’s most powerful nations would seize upon one badly written, badly researched paper to imprison their populations and devastate their economies is mystifying and will be fodder for essays and books for many years. But what moves this question from the sublime to the ridiculous is that the entire social-distancing/lockdown model apparently has much of its origin in the high school science project of a 14-year-old. Yes, you read that right. Her name is Laura Glass. How the West’s elites chose to set the world on its head based on Ferguson’s bogus model and the musings of a bright teenager is another question for historians (and psychologists).
 
Dr. Rushworth likens the Swedish pandemic strategy to pulling off a bandage. One either pulls it off very slowly, resulting in the pain being spread over a long time. Or one rips it off with the intense but short-lived pain that causes. Sweden opted for the quick approach.

Here in Canada we opted for the long, excruciating option. We have devastated our economy, we did not fully protect our elderly, and it looks like we will be battling this virus for a long time to come.

In short – and with due respect to the meaningful variations that lessened the pain in Saskatchewan, Alberta and to some extent B.C. – we largely chose the lockdown model.

We made the wrong choice.

 
Further, any attempts at discussion are met with judgement and condescension.
I agree ... no one will discuss the scientific evidence that proves that lockdowns are not working. No matter how many scientists or doctors I present ... they are all dismissed. I am not an expert ... and apparently any person that has scientific data that refutes what you are promoting as evidence will be dismissed. Here is another source that if you would listen to it should prove that lockdowns and masks are not effective measures and that they are doing more harm than good. You will probably not look at it because you want to continually say ... no Rita you yourself in your own words must give us the evidence and the better solution. Well then I would suggest that you look at all the evidence and then make up your own mind as I have. I have given the lockdowns and draconian measures the benefit of the doubt ... however the more I follow the science ... the more I understand that my common sense intuition was right. You have given no evidence to the contrary ... you just keep repeating the talking points that you have been handed. If there is to be blood on any ones hands at the end of this ... it will be on the hands of those that supported the lockdowns ... I have never told anyone that they should not wear masks or that they should not protect themselves from this new virus the best way they can. What I am saying and have said from the beginning is Medical Tyranny backed by corporations that control governments ... will lead to no good outcome ... It appears to me that I am being proved correct ... If you do not care to look at the evidence of that ... so be it ...
 
Here's the thing for me Rita.....you post reams and reams of information without discussing most of it, video after video, etc......one at a time with some discussion is more preferred but that could just be my learning style.
Discuss this video then ... but first you will have to view it.
You show me how I am ignoring the science ... because all of the information I am presenting is to show you that I am not ignoring the science ... but you here all seem to be doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. I am saying outright now that the Pandemic is over. The Epidemics are under control to the best of our human ability. The Casedemic is prolonging the fear for no good reason and it needs to stop. Life is not about being afraid to live ... If that is the way you want to proceed ... go for it ... do not impose your fear of living at the expense of the rest of the people that are not.
 
Swedes are supposedly culturally more open to VOLUNTARY citizenry cooperation with state requirements and thus the state did not make it mandatory.....so it's a mistake to believe that there were no "lock downs". Also Swedens prime minister, Stefen Lofven, advocated social distancing rules and not closing schools but limiting gatherings to 50. Social distancing and mask wearing became voluntary....which may or may not explain why their death and infection rate was higher than their neighbouring scandinavian countries like Norway, Denmark and Finland.....

So while Sweden embraced herd immunity and the UK relied on lockdowns....they both have the similar COVID fatality rates.
Sweden has the 9th highest COVID mortality rate in the world at 57.3 per 100,000
and England is 62.6 per 100,000.
The USA has a COVID related fatality rate of 3%, which is half of Swedens! I found that shocking.
Sweden made a mistake with herd immunity, the same as many countries including Canada, that we failed to protect the elderly population. Sweden eventually banned care home visits at the end of March.

After all this, Sweden claims to have 30% of their population that COULD be immune, with Sweden's Tegnell himself, acknowledging that's it's very difficult to estimate because levels of immunity differ between age groups.....

To achieve herd immunity, epidemiologists estimate COVID requires at least 70% of the population to be immune according to the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.
And let's not forget that we don't even know how long immunity lasts for COVID......recent studies are suggesting 4 to 6 months .....and not everyone will be immune at the same time.

So while Sweden may or may not be your poster child for COVID.......the video is terribly biased with it's reporting and feeds into what you want to do and not what you should do, and that is carefully look at all sides.
No, what you learn is that some people were in lock down and some were not. Some people died in both cases. But in one country most people also lost their jobs, people deleted their savings and lost homes and committed suicide or lost their families. In the other country the only consequence was if you were old and got the disease.

Time to stop being stupid. It was a bad idea gone wrong.
 
"Time to stop being stupid."

More Christian mudslinging ... such pure deity-like expression ...

Yet, God appears to incarnate in the silence ... my friend!
 
No, what you learn is that some people were in lock down and some were not. Some people died in both cases. But in one country most people also lost their jobs, people deleted their savings and lost homes and committed suicide or lost their families. In the other country the only consequence was if you were old and got the disease.

Time to stop being stupid. It was a bad idea gone wrong.
Sweden has better social systems in place.....which would probably survive most things, including COVID economically.
 
It's simplistic thinking, rather than educated thinking, to conflate many issues.
What Peter says about Paul tells us more about Peter than it does Paul......

Rob Peter to pay Paul?

A Victorian government official has taken aim at Daniel Andrews and health chief Brett Sutton in a scathing resignation letter.

Sanjeev Sabhlok, who moved to Melbourne from India in 2001, resigned last week after being asked to remove a number of inflammatory social media posts criticizing the state government.

“I did not come to Australia to be a slave of whimsical government.”​

" The problem for politicians now is how to reverse course without losing their job. They've messed up on an unimaginable scale. I personally would like them locked up in jail. No mercy. There was so much good info and advice available but they picked the worst. "​
​
“You have not implemented risk-based management, no evidence-based policy, no cost-benefit analysis. No justification. Just whimsy. You must reset Victoria’s policies right now. But if you won’t, then go!”​

In an opinion piece for The Australian Financial Review on Wednesday, the public service veteran said he had been approached by the head of human relations at Treasury and asked to remove his posts critical of the government.

“I considered deleting the few direct criticisms, but they wanted all indirect criticism removed too,” he wrote. “I resigned on the same day, the only honourable course for a free citizen of Australia.”​

In the piece, Mr Sabhlok describes the pandemic policies being pursued in Australia and particularly in Victoria as “the most heavy-handed possible, a sledgehammer to kill a swarm of flies”.

“These policies are having hugely adverse economic, social and health effects, with the poorer sections of the community that don’t have the ability to work from home suffering the most,” he said.​

“Australia is signalling to the world that it is closed for business and doesn’t care for human freedoms. This will dampen business investment but also impact future skilled migration, the education industry and tourism.”​
​
“The need for good policy process does not disappear just because we face a public health crisis,” he said.​

“In fact, it gets even more urgent ... Governments should have also realised at the outset that they are hostage to chronic groupthink and actively sought alternative advice.”​

“The bureaucracy has clamped down on frank and fearless, impartial advice, in a misplaced determination to support whatever the government decides, (instead of performing its taxpayer-funded duty of providing forthright analysis of alternatives),” he said.​

“So what happens now? Billions of dollars in income and wealth have been wiped out in the name of a virus that is no worse than the Asian flu.”​

“That may be his version of what occurred, I’m not briefed on the accuracy or otherwise of that,” Mr Andrews said.

Mr Sabhlok claims he “repeatedly” tried to raise concerns but his “attempts were rebuffed”.
 
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